crushNchowda

So I had 3 of the mexican built shaking, afm lifter droppin, infotainment crashing, tranny clunking, bumper chippin, bearing burning, piles of dog poo that was the '14-18 K2 trucks & am now in a Ford. The new design of the GM trucks is starting to grow on me a bit, & they finally are offering some "lift" from the factory so the front diffuser isn't 3" off the ground in a 4x4 truck - is the quality any better from the "stop gap" measure that sums up the K2 version? The 10 speed in my Raptor is awesome, night & day vs. the 8 speed (or 6 speed for that matter) in the old GM trucks - is it also a big improvement on these new GM's??? I had wayyyy too many issues over 3 trucks (1st was a dealer buyback after 4,500 miles) & I have a good friend who's now in a Ram after getting fed up/burnt out on FOUR K2 trucks - he was leasing w/ expectation to buy, no extra $$$$ came out of his pocket, at least 2 of his 4 trucks were true lemons/POS - 1 could have gone either way I think & the 4th he just rode out til lease was done. The dealer wouldn't be swapping em out w/ no profit if they WEREN'T defective (btw - 3 torque converters, 1 drive shaft, 2 trannies were swapped among the first 3.....) So you can see why, after basically being nearly a "GM lifer" (I still own a vette) - I am very gun shy about checking them out again when it comes to trucks (1/2 tons in particular)

Well my 2015 actually ALSO left me & the fam stranded on a vacation, but not due to the AFM hardware - instead had a failed/corroded starter @ like 35-40k miles. 12xxx miles ownership into a 2018 Ford Raptor & VERY happy w/ the change. Good luck w/ your GM - if its on their dime take the repair & drive it for a while then trade out...Rams are nice too, I'm starting to like the look of some of the newest GM trucks as well, but won't be buying anything from them again until it seems like their quality/reliability/service improves.

Read my post above - the acceleration is deceiving, feels way different than a 6.2 V8 pulling. Also - if you check my original "review" - the Raptors DEFINITELY take couple thousand miles to break-in, I have 6500 miles on mine now & its way looser & pulls harder. Additionally, being a high compression high output turbo motor, its very sensitive to fuel quality - and technically 87 octane is all you "need" - so the truck you test drove is most likely no different than how mine was when I bought it, sitting on the lot w/ very limited test drives w/ a 1/2 tank of 4-6 month old crap quality 87 octane + fuel stabilizer. I even had some stuttering/misfiring/pinging initially until I dumped 2 cans of octane booster & topped off w/ 93 A tuned Raptor though? JESUS man you need to try one. They just got the tranny tuning down now. Researched alot of tuners/dynos/results - first of all the trucks dyno like +30-40hp/tq on STOCK tune just running 93 octane. With a tune you can add +100hp/tq, & unlike the old EB motors, this Raptor engine w/ revised heads/compression/bigger turbos + forged internals can easily handle it (any more power start needing larger intercooler etc) Check it out -

Well - for starters I can tell you firsthand having owned 4 GM 1/2 tons w/ V8's (3x5.3's & 1x6.2) + multiple LSx equipped cars that the way in which Ford's 3.5 EB pulls & builds power is deceiving, it doesn't FEEL as fast as even a hemi V8 w/ the ZF 8 speed - but it is significantly quicker than that truck in particular. The muted exhaust note & very smooth 10 speed + dual turbo spool creates "sneaky" type acceleration. The Navi weighs 250-350 lbs more than a Raptor SCREW give or take some options. Its tranny is not tuned nearly as aggressively as the Raptor's in sport mode, it doesn't sport 4.10 gears, & it can't do AWD launches in the same way a Raptor can. Your tuned 6.2 is definitely quicker than a stock fleet rental Navi (many fleet cars feel neutered to me anyhow), & it may be marginally quicker than a stock Raptor. Raptors weigh in around 5400-5500 lbs, a solid 350-400 lbs more than NEW GM 1/2 tons, but about equal or a little less than the K2 versions. The Raptors' power isn't the only thing aiding its acceleration figures for such a big truck - #1 that trick AWD enabled transfer case helps, #2 even though they're AT's the BFG's on the Raptor are C rated soft compound w/ a huge footprint = good grip, #3 4.10s - again, 4.10s, #4 the 10 speed tranny, #5 - an actual SPORT mode that works form the factory. All those things combined + the 450hp/510tq enable it to drop a 5.2 0-60 run stock & a 13.9 1/4 @ 100mph Definitely faster than stock K2 6.2's all around, but I think its a coin toss between a new GM w/ lighter body, 10 speed, & 6.2 - I believe they're a little slower to 60 & pretty much equal through the 1/4 That 0-60 time is real tough to match w/o the tires/gears/transfer case of the Raptor. TUNE ONLY guys are going 4.7 on 0-60, that time stopped holding meaning to me w/ all the speed/power out there these days until I started DD'ing a Raptor - you can repeatedly drop 4.7 runs around town & the grins never go away when you feel a near 3 ton truck rip off the line like a god damn rally car. Lots of cars will get surprised by this because any slippage & they're looking @ truck tailights - not that I bought the thing to race people, its just a fact & it makes driving it very enjoyable. I'll tell you what's REALLY cool - the fact they dropped a HO ecoboost in the lighter/smaller Aviator. That things pretty stout on paper. Lastly - my biggest gripe w/ the Raptor has been the exhaust note, however there are companies out there finally bringing some decent systems to market - a few of which I've heard in person & literally make the truck sound like an exotic - Ford GTesque, but w/ more rumble or even GTR-ish when you add downpipes or external BOV. FWIW - I guess you can get the same HO3.5 in the king ranch F150 - not sure if it'd be quicker or not, lighter weight but taller gearing & skinnier rubber. I'm sticking w/ this rig for @ least 6 years - like I originally intended w/ on my Sierra til it got totaled - but not turned off by GM vehicles entirely, would like to see how the new gen trucks age & when its time for the wife to replace her SUV in a couple years certainly will give the Yukon/Trailblazer a look.

Reports of issues are more overblown - A LARGE chunk of Raptor owners (not necessarily including myself here) are extremely demanding wealthy buyers who own multiple vehicles & are used to getting quality for what they pay for. Also worth noting is there's a whole other category of owners that truly use these Raptors for what they're intended for, & mod them, & drive them HARD - its a very common/popular high-end vehicle in the western part/west coast of the country b/c of its capabilities. So yeah - while they have some issues (again - I reiterate ALL makes have issues) what you read/hear about is a little different coming from the Raptor crowd vs. your typical forum/owner contingent. My biggest warranty/quality concern w/ my Raptor from the outset is w/ the Pano roof - many F150's - particularly 14-16 model years - had moonroof issues, not just leakage but misalignments/TSB's for weak parts that need replacements etc. Main reason I opted for a 100k b2b warranty..............but, it really raises the bar on the quality level & brightens up the mostly dark interior well, plus my 4 year old, dog, & wife seem to really like it lol The transfer case? Relatively few cases of issues/failure in reality. There was TSB for leaky gasket, also there are reports of the T-case grenading but typically its VERY early on in the life of the truck from what I've researched & it seems to be almost exclusively happening to trucks that have the front locker. Mine only has rear locker. Besides....got the warranty lol, and that T-case is part of what gives the Raptor some of it "magic" - it makes it truly the ONLY 1/2 ton truck (or any pickup I think) that can run in legit AWD, which is a nice feature when you're driving the most powerful 1/2 ton out there, you can put ALL the power down should you like, very fun in the rain! The structural roof brace thing is news to me, will check it out though! P.S. - not trying to "troll" this forum, I truly do feel bad for other owners having issue & TRULY believe this is more than just a case of "all makes have their issues" & "more vocal people go on forums or go on w/ complaints but thousands out there driving down the road happy" - I think GM has been making vehicles - paricularly trucks - w/ more than their fair share of issues. Case in point I have another body who had leases then bought 1 outta lease (his current is a '17 Denali Ultimate) & hes had FIVE K2 trucks - outta those 5 hes had 7 transmissions & 8 torque converters & 6 additional lifters, so yeah......

"bad production run of lifters" = EVERY GM engine w/ AFM has shit lifters, EVERY engine they produce w/ that crap runs the risk of partial of full blown failure. No coincidence I had dropped lifters on an '08 G8 GT @ the 90k mark, dropped lifters on an '07 Silverado 5.3 @ 110k (granted was actually under ownership of a friend I had sold it to at that point so didn't inconvenience me personally, but still another instance of this issue), & dropped lifters/bad injectors/bad fuel rail on my last truck 2015 GMC 6.2, I had a '14 5.3 that was starting to get a tick on cold start before it got totaled @ 42k miles as well. I used to be a GM fanboy diehard, I truly feel bad for everyone on here who has been duped/let down by them. It's not just that they produced crappy quality/junk parts - hell, that's been a Dodge stereotype (probably unwarranted really @ this point) for a while - but GM KNEW/KNOWS they're putting out some shit stuff & just keeps doing it, shortens their warranty coverage, etc. Like, for instance, DO NOT sit there and tell me you don't know GM trucks shake. Just don't. Went to Ford. Not looking back. Now GM trying to copy Ford & to lesser extent Dodge w/ their '19+ trucks. Blatantly obvious. While its true EVERY make can & does have it issues, my opinion is GM has simply gotten egregious about it at this point. Their last "golden" era was back in late 90's through early 2000's until shit hit the fan. One of the most reliable/well engineered/does what its intended vehicles I have ever owned is my '03 Z06.................and I KNOW there are many guys on this forum who pine for the days they were driving their circa 2002 GMC sierra V8......

I've had a 2014 SLT 5.3 AT 4x4 CC put 45k on it before totaled in accident (not my fault) - had BAD shake that was never resolved, oil consumption, tranny clunk, then after getting ins. check went to same dealer got essentially same truck except w/ the 6.2 & 2015 model year brand new - drove it 62k miles & totaled it too (hit a deer on hwy @ 75 mph - again not my fault lol - deer DID ME A FAVOR!) - that truck had 8 speed tranny also clunky/harsh shifts & did have the tranny TSB done w/ reflash & flush w/ new fluid etc., 3rd brake light leaked stained headliner, dropped a couple lifters, bad injectors, bad fuel rail driver's side, starter died @ 34k left me stranded on a trip, nav/infotainment screen went haywire last 20-30k of ownership rendering it essentially useless - would behave as if a ghost were just tapping the screen randomly....all the time (glad I got an SLT loL!), exhaust manifold leak that was audible yet never fixed, driver's side bearing went @ 50k - no towing, minimal offroading/4x4 use. When that truck was totaled & the ins. company stroked me a check for $32.5k (I owed nothing on it) even when the dealer offered me a leftover '18 Denali Ultimate fully loaded up for $51k I gave it a hard pass...the 2019s? As others mentioned - already did the first model year of a new generation vehicle, all set w/ being GM's guinea pig again. I was a die hard GM guy, still own a C5 Z06 that is the single longest ownership I've ever had for a vehicle - Aside from the 14-15 GMC's I had an '07 Silvy, '04 GTO, '08 G8GT, & a grand prix & firebird back in the day. Their quality went way down & I think it was kinda on purpose recouping the $$$$ lost during the bankruptcy. And the 8 speed tranny? NO SHIT they knew/know its junk, why else would they have been simultaneously/immediately coming out w/ a 10 speed jointly developed w/ Ford? Crickets for that answer amiright? Have you ever taken a look @ how puny the A-arms/bushings/spindles/driveshaft/axles are on the GM 1/2 tons btw? Got into a new '18 Raptor leftover & zero regrets whatsoever, more than that - this is EASILY the most satisfied I've ever been on DD vehicle purchase & it aint even close. As far as missing the V8? Love GM V8's....when they don't have AFM shit in em, if they sold 'em without that as an option I'd be much more inclined to look @ new trucks...its a god damn joke they put that crap into a vette engine. JOKE. Anyhow.....I only miss the sound of the V8, that's it, dyno #'s? On 35" BFG KO2's my truck puts down 445whp 550rwtq.......w/ a TUNE. RAM has the best ride/interior & most comfortable seats (unless you get the Recaros in a Raptor) Ford has the fastest trucks w/ most bang for the buck Toyota has a tried & true but tired design that just attracts loyalists Nissan is just fishing for business w/ 100k warranty GM makes blinged out mall crawlers & fleet vehicles & would rather spend R&D on wireless phone charging than engines that don't grenade or trucks that don't shake

probably better off w/ a higher mileage example of a first gen model like the 2014 K2's.....they DO HAVE PROBLEMS - but, since the ones you're looking @ have over 100k you should be right to assume that major issues/problems/warranty work was addressed during the 1st ownership cycle, otherwise it'd be pretty tough to rack up that kind of mileage ignoring a bunch of problems & just keep driving it w/o a major failure or gouging your eyes out lol! SO when it comes to these trucks, higher mileage isn't necessarily a bad thing if the prior owner took care of a lot of the common headaches.

Answer to the tranny? NO. It could be fine if you're just loafing around most of the time, but if you actually use the power or drive the truck hard & work it like a truck, the tranny most likely won't hack it. Hell, the tranny/TC can barely handle the STOCK output of these trucks. The 8 speed was a "band-aid" by GM they knew/KNOW is flawed & was a temporary solution to "keep up w/ the jones's" until their joing-venture 10 speed developed w/ Ford could be implemented. Whatever you do - yank ALL the AFM related hardware while you're at it going w/ a new cam/lifters & I'd also swap out the torque converter for a beefier/more well designed aftermarket. With a good tune & fresh fluid the tranny would have a better chance & not grenading itself w/ the AFM delete & TC upgrade. I would probably consider upgrading the driveshaft too if you're adding that much more HP - again, stock driveshafts have issue dealing w/ STOCK power levels - btw, you could punch a hole through your driveshaft w/ a screwdriver......you don't want it tearing apart on ya @ hwy speeds. I no longer have a GM truck, but I do have a C5Z vette, alot of guys go w/ centrifugal style superchargers for peak HP + packaging, but if you notice all factory boosted GM engines go w/ roots type blowers....while may not make the same power, consensus is they're more reliable & truly drive like stock - Edelbrock's SC's are roots type bolt right on top. I'm curious - has anyone succesfully transplanted the blower from an LSA or LT4 to a GM ecotec engine? Is it possible? I saw a G8 GT @ a car show last summer that had the blower from a wrecked CTS-V (LSA) - THAT would be an interesting build.....and may very well be cheaper/easier? Lastly - I know you didn't mean it that way, but I had to chuckle @ "investment" - its a TERRIBLE investment, but it'll put a smile on your face & YOLO Keep in mind - both Ford & RAM will be coming out w/ factory blown warrantied 700+HP trucks in the next year or so......

Spend some time out west (CA, NM, WY, CO, AZ, WA. MT) see what you find....actually part of the reason I ended up getting one. In a roundabout way same reason I was looking @ HD's even though I don't "need" one. In states like those people absolutely use the ever-loving crap outta them, and then some! There are F150 Raptor forums, I'm on a couple - Fords/Raptors aren't immune to issues either, but overall I think its a better built vehicle than what GM's offering. On the other hand, I see guys posting on there blowing a beefy-ass forged tie rod (again - bigger better stronger little bits - the details add up - go ahead & lift a GM for 35"s, but the axles/diff/A-arms/bushings/bearings etc. are all plain jane weak cheapo) along w/ bushings & ball joint.....from off-roading the SH*T outta his truck & guy had pics of him getting air etc......& guess what? Fixed under warranty courtesy of FOMOCO When you build a truck that's capable of entering a baja race, jumping dunes, while still carrying a factory warranty & a claimed 8800 lbs towing/1200 lb payload capacity you KNOW the little bits (A-arms, bushings, bearings, strut mounts, couplings, diffs, axles) etc. are all beefed up to handle it. Same goes for HD trucks that weigh 1500-2000 lbs more than their 1/2 ton siblings, rated for much higher workloads & are being sold KNOWING they'll be used for plowing/towing/hauling etc. - then yeah, you're right to expect all the supporting parts to be more "robust" & wear better overall in comparison to a regular mall crawler 1/2 ton. So while I agree many people don't NEED or USE all the capabilities of a truck like the Raptor - the very fact that is capable of being abused like that lends support to the ruggedness/reliability/durability of the truck overall.

I just got into a new 2018 Raptor after totaling my '15 6.2 Sierra (theres a whole thread on it w/ many GM guys getting panties twisted - for the record I still like alot of GM products & still own a C5Z) - what you're stating is 100000% accurate and then some. For comparison - I purchased my truck for $59,500 including a truxedo tonneau + $1000 credit towards 100k b2b warranty. It was a highly optioned 801A truck stickered for $66.8k - I was contemplating getting back into a fully loaded GMC Denali that stickered similar to my Raptor but I got them down to $51.8 To me - even though I spent $8-9k more, I still feel like its the better deal overall - if we were talking a '19 GM truck w/o that steep discounting it wouldn't even be worth discussing. You CAN'T add the suspension/A-arms/steering/tranny modes/extra power/35" LT tires/beadlocks/exhaust/fender flares/skid plates/etc. for that kinda money. You just can't. And if you COULD somehow swing it for equal cash - you immediately lose your warranty + devalue a vehicle that already will depreciate faster than a comparable Raptor. Thems the facts boys. Also - math above included a warranty into the difference in price. Oh and the other thing you'd lose in addition to your $$$ & warranty trying to make a regular 1/2 ton into a Raptor? You'd lose out on MPG - big time. My 6.2 Sierra lifted 2.5-3" on 33"s w/o the lower chin splitter averaged 16.1 mixed overall. My Raptor riding on heavy ass 35" BFGs, pushing out 30 more HP/50 TQ & sitting even higher & being even less aerodynamic is getting 15.4 mixed so far w/ a heavier foot, only 2500 miles, & more city driving for sure. We all know what kinda MPG a 4" lifted GM truck riding on 35"s gets. IF you do wanna straddle the line of modding vs warranty guys have been consistently getting +100 HP/TQ @ the crank w/ TUNE ONLY. A Cobb accessport allows you to swap right back to stock parameters. 0-60 in 4.6-4.8 seconds tune only. 420whp/465rwtq As far as reliabilty? I used to be skeptical of the 3.5 ecoboost....like 10+ years ago when I was poking fun @ the SHO's wanting to race camaros/G8's - fast forward a decade+ & look around.....how many 3.5EB explorers, taurus', F150's (and the 2.7) do you see in commercial/fleet/first responder/police vehicles. Lots. You ALL see shit loads. Ford is now capping off the Raptor & current F150 generation w/ a "super raptor" that'll be debuting the new 5.2 SC'd V8 good for around 700hp alongside the newest GT500 - Dodge will attempt to compete w/ the TRX Meanwhile we just keep bending over saying "thank you general may I have another" w/ their "bandaid" temporary fix 8 speeds, incessant shaking, junk torque converters, & hope you enjoy the off-center steering wheel couple w/ a column shifter outta a '94 suburban. Face it - brands take turns as "king of the hill" depending on who has the best design/engineering/marketing at any given time.....lately Ford & Dodge have been beating GM to the punch & then some.

One thing I'll say after driving the Tundra......when you consider cost, gas mileage, power, & the fact it is so dated & not a fully boxed frame designI feel like a prospective Tundra buyer would be better off w/ a 6.0 equipped GM 2500......will get better gas mileage, way more capable, no AFM crap, & the motor/tranny combo is proven.

Driving an '18 Ford Raptor now....lost my GMC to a deer - not a trade, but when ins. totaled my Sierra I decided after GM getting my $$$ for my last 4 trucks - 2 of which had a number of issues - I decided I should open up my options a little bit. 900 miles on the Raptor now & am happy thus far. All manufacturers will have their issues, just started to seem like I was expecting the stereotypical stuff to just fail on the new GM trucks & like magic just kept happening - lifters, injectors, fuel rail, 3rd brake light, starter, NAV/infotainment, tranny, wheel bearings, torque converter seat, shakes, etc. etc. etc. I was all set w/ potentially getting a "new" '18 waiting for all the old gremlins to reappear or crossing my fingers that a complete redesign 2019 was going to be that much better? All set. Let someone else be GM's guinea pig. Smart biz move by them - my guess is w/ the shoddy quality, Mexican builds, lack of innovation, etc. on the '14-'18 Trucks, plus avoiding warranty claims, reducing the warranty duration mid-cycle, & charging big $$$$ for all of em they probably padded the wallet fairly well.....@ least I hope so after the bailout & then laying thousands upon thousands of people off to boot. First full size Ford, maybe not my last - will see how it holds up. The bar has not been left very high by my past GM trucks sad to say.

pop the hood on that 5.0....tell me its "small", displacement is sometimes misleading lol! Ford has some "big" engines. I have the HO 3.5 in my '18 Raptor & while I was a little skeptical initially after 850 miles I'm starting to really like the way the power builds w/ the tt V6 & the smoothness of the transmission, my best takeaway is that the power/tq seems more "usable" in city/country roads vs. the N/A V8 competition. Also - at least the HO version - has "sneaky" strong acceleration @ part/partial throttle similar to a diesel HD truck.

Not sure this OK on this forum, but since this is new england club figured I'd give you all a heads up am parting out my 2015 sierra that was totaled, below is a craigslist link for set of 20" granite alloy wheels + nittos for sale had the wrong link initially - try this: https://southcoast.craigslist.org/wto/d/mansfield-r20-nitto-ats-20-black-wheels/6825503234.html