Shifting without the clutch

Chev4Ever · October 29, 2001

I figured out about 2 months ago how to shift from 1-5 and from 5-1 without using the clutch.. My question is: Is it bad on the transmission or the clutch?? Is it bad on any other part of my truck?? There's no grinding or clunking and it goes in real smooth..

Now i dont do it often but if i continue to do it what will happen..??

October 29, 2001

So long as you get it at the right time, with no grinding, it won't hurt anything.

The clutch just takes the load off of and slows down the input shaft so it will shift easy. What happens when you shift with no clutch is (and I assume you pull out of one gear and kind of "rest" the shifter on the next until it slides in), you allow the input shaft and the gear you are shifting into to come to a common speed. When the gear speeds match, they just slide together.

Did that make any sense?

Hell, sometimes I confuse myself!

Chev4Ever · October 30, 2001

makes complete sence.. Ya i hold it there til the revs meet the speed it needs to go in itself..

If/when i do shift going from 1-5 its a slow ride up cause i shift at like 10 kph then at like 18kph and then 3, 4 and 5 at around the 30 40 and 50 mark.. going down is a lot easier because i know where the rev's have to be to let me into the gear..

Its fun to do it sometimes *especially in traffic jams* just because it feels like you driving a different vehicle..

Still the hardest gear to make is from 1 to 2 just because the speed is hard to get all the time..

Thanks for the info Friz

chevy4x4trucks · October 30, 2001

That would be powershifting, and if done correctly it's fine on the transmission. It's a good skill to get good at if you intend to race a stick shift. I'm sure we've all raced a stick shift where it was neck and neck and then they suddenly slow down because they have to shift and bam, you are outta there and all they see is your butt end. It happens to me all the time, if you can't race a stick, be like me and get an auto

CMNTMXR81 · October 30, 2001

I wouldn't recommend it!

I race my car and even I don't powershift. The reason being, I don't want an expensive B&W T56 turned into hash especially with the power I'm putting out.

I guess under light loads you aren't hurting anything, but I prefer speed shifting which allows for a brief load release from the transmission's input shaft.

95 Silverado · November 3, 2001

when done properly it won't hurt anything, many big rig drivers hardly use the clutch except to start and stop. "but" it does put more of a strain on the synchronizers in the transmission, they act as a brake to help the sliders match speeds when shifting, it makes them work a little harder when you don't push in the clutch.

alsz71 · November 17, 2001

I thought the highway tractors didn't have sync's due to the amount of torque and the amount of load on the truck.? I've driven with several truckers and none of them use the clutch exept when stopping or starting. Clutch has no effect on shifting when on the move. (atleast on the big stuff).

dougmac · November 17, 2001

Big rigs don't have synchronized transmissions and have very heavy sliding cliches and shifting forks. You have to use the engine to control the speed of the input shaft when making a shift. This is why you don't use the clutch in the same way that you would in a car.

When you don't use the clutch in an automotive transmission, you can cause excessive wear to the shifting fork and synchronizer. The synchronizer tries to match the speed of the input shaft and the gear that you are trying to select. When the clutch is released the input shaft is freewheeling and the synchronizer can control the input shaft speed. If the clutch is engaged it cannot.

The synchronizer works like a small brake. If it is trying to overcome the resistance of the engine, it will cause wear. When you push on the stick and the input shaft speed is not matched, the pressure you put on the shifting fork will also cause wear to the fork itself.

You can cause damage to these parts and never experience gear grinding or any other indication that the damage is occurring. Incidentally you can cause the same type of wear if you have a habit of resting your hand on the gearshift knob. This also puts pressure on these same parts.

Doug

alsz71 · November 17, 2001

I thought so . Doug you said it all I've also heard these things. where's you profile sounds to me like mabey you work in the field?

dougmac · November 18, 2001

Thanks, alsz71

Yes, I have been a mechanic for 25+ years. Mostly repairing trucks, busses and heavy equipment. I have had a few transmissions apart. My current job is providing technical training to mechanics. It is a pretty challenging field to be in with all of the technological changes our industry going through these days.

Doug

95 Silverado · November 18, 2001

Doug, what manufacturer or product line do you provide training in, I also work in the heavy truck field, mostly over-the-road type trucks, I've been a mechanic for 20+ years as well.

November 18, 2001

I stand corrected, dougmac. Thanks for your input. I never new that would cause excessive wear.

dougmac · November 18, 2001

95 Silverado,

I work for a public transit agency. I coordinate training for the maintenance staff and present some classes. We use vendor training for some of the systems including the engines and transmissions. I do the air brake training and electrical systems. I also do other miscellaneous training and supply technical support to the maintenance shop.

My current project is to develop an electronics class. There are so many processors on the new busses that I am building the class around how they function generically. Once the students understand the principals of the processors and sensors we will start look at each processor individually. The class will finish by using the laptop diagnostic tools that are available for each of the systems.

It's a great job but a lot of work. As you know it can be a real challenge to keep up with the new systems and electronics on the new vehicles. How are they dealing with all of these new gadgets where you work?

Doug

alsz71 · November 18, 2001

Welcome to the forum Doug I hope you stick around sounds like your in the know and trying to keep up with the now. PS I got a feeling you are gonna like it here with all the good people and alll.

95 Silverado · November 18, 2001

Sounds like a challenging job Doug. I'm a mechanic for a medium size trucking company, Mostly navistar tractors with detroit series 60 engines in the road tractors and navistar engines in the local units. I do a lot of the electronic oriented repairs in our shop, we have only had the engine ecm to deal with, but with ABS, electronic dash panels and automatic transmissions coming into the picture we are seeing more and more computer diagnostics. I enjoy most of it, but it gives some guys a real headache.We also get vendor training on some products but they are usually geared at teaching the new mechanics and they seem to tell you what you already know. We aren't on the cutting edge with the new stuff, the companies want to rely on warranties, they drag their feet getting the troubleshooting stuff until they have to have it. what engine systems are used in new buses, I know they used to use a lot of detroit engines, is that still the case?