6.0L...here again

pennscapes · October 16, 2001

Hello,

Ok,

Now this topic has been coverered before, but here we go:

Clicking noise getting louder in the morning everytime I start cold.

Increasing knocking from engine while driving....use to only be while trailering but now has begun to knock while go up inclines and even during hard accelerations.

Oil consumption.....hate to say it, but changed the oil again (as I do every 3000 miles or less for that matter) and it showed up a quart short almost.....for the second time.

The truck has 22,000 miles now, and well does do a bit of pulling, but basically, a lot of those miles are unloaded highway miles.

I know I should of taking it in before, but I really can't afford to have my truck tied up...not even for a day....Now, however, I can't take it anymore....if that clicking noise gets any louder, I'm afraid I am going to pull up to a gas station and they will fill it with diesel.

So, with this said, does anyone have any suggestions on approaching this matter when I take it in.....I am 100% positive that my engjine is a dud and that it is not going to make 50k before blowing up.

Am I going to have problems here, even though the truck is under warranty, but it has so many miles and I never took it in?

I love chevy's, but just have had it after I heard that obnoxious clicking for 5 mininutes this morning and then hear the engine knocking all day.

steve

Shaners · October 16, 2001

Steve,

I agree with you that this issue is more than we can handle here and needs to be addressed by a dealer.

Let the dealer look and listen, and then try to get a factory rep involved. I'd let it be known that you need your truck and a "Grand Am" won't be sufficiant while the truck is for repairs. I'm hoping they have a Demo or something you can drive while your truck is down. Maybe the factory rep can set you up with something...

pennscapes · October 17, 2001

Well,

here it is.. the first 'official' sign that GM has got problems:

Info - Engine Knock on Cold Start #01-06-01-022

Information on Engine Knock on Cold Start

2001-2002 Chevrolet and GMC C/K Pickup and Utility Models

with 6.0L Engine (VIN U -- RPO LQ4)

Some of the above vehicles may exhibit an engine knock noise that begins in the first several thousand miles/kilometers of use. The knock noise is most often noticed during initial start-up and typically disappears as the engine warms up. The noise is usually more noticeable on the initial start-up when the temperature is below 10°C (50°F) or if the vehicle has not been used for several days.

This noise may be caused by an interaction between the piston and the cylinder wall. GM Powertrain Engineering, and an analysis of engines returned with this condition, has confirmed that the noise is not detrimental to the performance, reliability or durability of the engine. The noise does not have any effect on the longevity of any of the engine components.

Important

At this time, replacing the engine assembly or pistons will not eliminate this noise.

Please share the information found in this bulletin with customers who inquire about this condition. In the event they have additional questions or concerns, please advise them to contact Customer Assistance at the numbers listed below for further information.

Now, this is where GM either keeps me or loses me. I'm sorry guys, but if they don't want to stand behind there trucks, then I sure won't stand behind them.

They are already starting off on a bad foot with the "AT THIS TIME" crud. They know there's a problem, just as we do. If they have any pride in their line, they MUST do something about this then hide behind fancy lawyer jargon.

This is going to be a very big pain in my butt by the time this matter is all cleared up.

steve

Wink · October 17, 2001

I have approximately 8700 miles on my 6.0 at this point and have changed the oil every 2500 miles. At the 7500 mile oil change I used Quaker State 5W-30 Full Synthetic oil and of course, the AC PF-59 filter. I've found that the engine knock, while still there for the first few moments of a cold start, is definitely reduced in duration and intensity. I believe that this is due to the better film coat retention of the synthetic oil.

RIPMF · October 17, 2001

hey penny I just took my 8.1 in for oil use there is a bulltin out on the 5.3 6.0 and 8.1 for this matter. If piston to side wall slap is nothin there out of there minds when the piston is rockin in the wall it makes a knock which will egg it out and make it lose piston to side wall seal then you willl start to lose power.

pennscapes · October 19, 2001

Hello,

got some noise today from the dealer on my problems, at least a few.

They, first of said, that the engine noise at start off is something they are fully aware of, and that GM is really giving them nothing else than the normal answer of its normal or they are doing the engine soak thing, but still no 'real' answers on that one.

As to the burning oil, they say its a PCV that is engineered wrong and they HAVE fixed a few already. Supposely gm is re-engineering the part or something along that line, but that they can replace the one on mine sometime next week.

At least some good noise.

As for the engine knocking while under load, well, I guess that will be next week when I get it in the shop. Hopefully they can fix that, or maybe that is PCV valve related also.

At this point, its good to get a dealer (I went to one other than where I bought the truck this time) who at least has a clue and admits the problem and doesn't try to put a bandaid on top of something to hide it.

steve

Shaners · October 19, 2001

It gives you a good piece of mind knowing when a service department is willing to help you out when you need it, doesn't it???

As long as they seem concerned it helps me out alot... some service dept's seem like they were out drinking all night and just can't wait to punch the clock to go home!!!

My service dept even has weekend and Saturday hours, and if you need a loaner they get you an Enterprise rent-a-car, as long as your vehicle is under warranty!!!

swl2126 · December 27, 2001

I just test drove a 2002 2500HD Crew Cab LT 4WD SWB with a 6000 Vortec Engine.

Most of the evening I've been reading the information in the forums on GM-Trucks.COM. After reading the information about the 6.0L engine noise, I'm concerned. I don't want to purchase a $35K lemon. The truck I drove had 14 miles on it. It was 30 degrees according to the thermometer inside the truck when the salesman started it. I can't say I noticed and unusual noise, but I wasn't expecting any either.

Fom the posts on this forum, this appears to be a common problem? Should I re-consider or wait a while to see it GM fixes the problem? I've owned Chevrolet trucks or SUVs since 1977 and all have had engine problems from leaking valve guides to leaking rear main bearings, but I this seems a lot worse.

Advice ???

Sam

Shaners · December 27, 2001

Sam,

My crewcab 6.0L 4x4 was built June 12 and I took delivery the end of June (2 days after it was dropped off at the dealer). So far I have no issues with my motor concerning knock/ping.

Please keep in mind that these boards are helpful, but are not a good reason to change your opinions. You have to believe me when I say, more people tend to visit these boards when they have problems and they more than likely are not a true sample of the owners out there.

I don't disagree with the ones that are having problems or noises. Even GM recognizes that these motors will make some noise, but I have not heard of anyone have any noise related failures and that is why GM is saying "drive 'em like you stole 'em...".

When you look at gas powered small blocks, you really have no choice but to buy GM... the Ford Triton 5.4L is grossly underpowered, and the Dodge 360 has too many issues with the entire truck in general.

My 6.0L crewcab is great in every aspect except that it is "thirsty". I drive about 5-6 miles a day in general and rarely get above 40 mph and gas milage is 11-12 mpgs. I guess that isn't too bad for a truck this big!!!

swl2126 · December 27, 2001

Shaners, thanks for the reply.

In the scheme of things will be doing very little towing, 5000 lbs 600 miles per year and 9000 lbs 100 miles per year. Most of my driving with be around 15 miles per day back and forth to work. However, I need a vehicle capable of towing a 9000 boat/trailer and not break me if gasoline goes back up to $1.80-$2.00 per gallon.

I'm currently driving a 93 Suburban, 5.7 throttle body, 129k miles and 3.73 rear end. It gets 14 in the in town and 16 highway. If I could squeeze 12 or 13 mpg that's probably not bad for a truck this large. (That's about a 20% decrease)

I've always owned GM products, but for curiosity sake, I drove a Ford 250 Super Duty with the 6.8 V10. Pretty rough ride. With the 3.73 gear ratio, do you know if the gas mileage is any better?

CMNT81 · December 27, 2001

There is supposed to be a redesigned piston coming out for the 6.0L V8 which is the root cause of some of this problem. I think KennGsxr said it was still in development in another thread but I didn't know it had made it that far.

Anyway, another problem GM has had in the past but was isolated to the 60 degree V6's, was piston slap. But this piston slap wasn't caused by a faulty piston design, rather, a faulty wrist pin design. I wonder of the wrist pin could be part of the cause here.

Shaners · December 27, 2001

Sam,

The only available gearing with the 2500HD 6.0L is 4.10's. If you want the mpg's you might want to consider the 1500HD crewcab with 3.73's and the 6.0L. From what the 1500HD owners are posting, this combo get's mpg's similar to your Suburban. This combo gives a max towing of approx 8300 lbs. Considering you'll only be towing the big boat 100 miles a year, you might want to consider the 1500HD. It is still an 8 bolt wheel and heavier 4L80E tranny like the 2500HD, but it sits on a slightly smaller frame. It has a GVW of 8600 lbs (600 less than the 2500HD), but it is still a very stout vehicle. It is identical to the standard 2500 series.

Shane

swl2126 · December 28, 2001

You guys got me going on this. I contacted the Service Manager at my local dealer and he gave me this. Hot off the presses:

Service Bulletin No.: 01-06-01-028

Date: December 2001

Subject: Engine Knock on Cold Start

Models: 1999-2002 Chevrolet/GMC C/K Pickup & Utility Models

2002 Cadillac Escalade (2WD)

with 4.8L, 5/3L or 6.0L Engine

Some of the above vehicles may exhibit an engine knock noise that begins in the first 12,000-15,000 miles of use. The knock noise is most often noticed during initial start-up and typically disappears within the first 5-30 seconds (may last longer in extreme cold temperatures). The noise is usually more noticeable on the initial start-up wht the temperture is below 50 degrees and may be more pronounced on the first cold start following a long trip.

The noise "may" be caused by an interaction between carbon that has formed on the piston, the piston motion and the cylinder wall. GM Powertrain Engineering, and an analysis of engines with this condition, has confirmed that the noise is not detrimental to the performance, reliability, or durability of the engine. THIS NOISE DOES NOT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THE LONGEVITY OF ANY OF THE ENGINE COMPONENTS.

Important: At this time, attemps to repair this condition by replacing the engine assembly or pistons is not recommended.

Please share this information found in this bulletin with the customers who inquire about this condition. In the event they have additional questions or concerns, please advice you area Service Manager.

From reading this, I can only draw tow conclusions. Obviously, GM is NOT 100% sure what is causing the noise. And, replacing the engine assemble won't help, because chance are the replacement motor will have the same problem. To be safe and if its not too inconvenient, I would take my truck back to the dealer the required number of times (four I think) for the same problem to document it as a lemon.

jimbello · December 30, 2001

I have to echo Shanners post. My HD built September 14th. A double wammy week. Built on a friday and during the caotic sept 11th week. Have had the truck since Sept 29th and no noises, no knocks, no pings, no hesitations, no oil usage, and the oil is as clean as the day I got it so far, none of the problems other guys have had ........yet

The only problem I had had so far is the parking brake pedel doesn't always release all the way and I have to hold the release and pull the pedle the rest of the way up with me huff. Haven't had that taken care of yet, can't justify tying up the truck for a day just for that.