Does a diesel really make sense?

MGraber · March 29, 2006

I am looking to upgrade trucks very soon and have never considered a diesel until many of the good things I read on forums like this.

Currently I have a 2wd chevy short bed with 97000 miles (no problems to speak of) and my main reason for the upgrade is I want an extended cab (at least) for more room and 4wd for the lovely midwest winters (and I think they look cool)

To be honest a 1/2 ton truck suits my needs well (frequent trips to Lowes/Home Depot, hauling trash, occassionaly pulling my 69 camaro (although it aint no trailer queen so it doesn't happen alot)

My main reason for even looking at a diesel is longevity (I know these things can go 200k easy), performance, and MPG (it seems like the Duramax can range from 15-20 mpg which is about what I can get with the 5.3. I think longenvity is the big one, I know the gasser lasts a while with routine maintenance but the diesels can go much longer.

My only concern is the maintenance. I do perform the routine stuff now, oil/filter change every 3000-4000 miles, fuel filter, etc. Is the diesel more labor intensive? Do fluids have to be changed at same intervals? My other concern is that my commute to work is only 11.9 miles, one way, and I have heard it is hard on the diesel motor to only drive short distances and not let the motor get warmed up. Any truth to that?

Sorry for the long message but any suggestions are appreciated.

Mark

tflessner · March 29, 2006

An extra cab Silverado with a 5.3L gas engine with 3.73 gears can handle most of what it sounds like you would need to do. I would just recommend putting a larger transmission cooler on it for when you do pull your ’69 Camaro around.

I would recommend getting a diesel only if you do a lot of towing, especially over 4-5,000 pounds. We have a couple diesel pickups in our family and they are awesome tow vehicles! We do all of the maintenance on ours also, most of which is the same as a gas engine except with larger oil capacity. The oil gets black quick! You do need to let them warm up a bit before running the RPM’s up. A 12 mile commute shouldn’t affect anything.

Sure the diesel may last longer, but it’s also going to cost more up front to purchase. And even if the diesel outlasts the gas engine, it’s also going to cost more to rebuild the diesel. Diesel fuel lately is more expensive, so that’s no longer a cost benefit. The ¾ ton diesel pickup is also a heavy vehicle, a lot different than your 2wd Chevy short bed.

So, unless you’re going to do a lot of towing, I would recommend going with the gas engine.

Roofer · March 30, 2006

For your situation, I would also recommend a 1500 ext. cab Z71 with the 5.3l. This motor will last a long time. The only good reasons for having a diesel is towing and just because you want one. I had a '00 Z71 and it was a good truck. Then I went to my current truck because I planned on towing a trailer alot. It has paid off because I tow quite often and got more and bigger trailers.

A 1500 will be a helluva lot cheaper than a HD Dmax. There isn't a whole lot of difference in maintenance. Only difference in a diesel is you have to check the air filter more often and change the fuel filter every 12K.

MGraber · March 30, 2006

Thanks for the replys. I should have mentioned that I am not too concerned with price, I get the GMS price and at my local dealer there was a 3/4 ton GMC extended 4x4 with the duramax (LBZ) for $33k. I also priced a 1/2 ton crew cab z71 for $30k so that is why I started thinking about the diesel option.

I do need a truck but as you guys pointed out I really don't need a diesel, I was really interested more from a coolness factor (I know this is not a good reason to use when considering a $30 + thousand dollar purchase)

I guess my main concern was the maintenance and if it would be hard on the diesel motor to drive short distances on a daily basis.

Mark

Roofer · March 30, 2006

I don't see anything wrong with buying it because you want it. You don't have to have a good reason to buy anything. I wouldn't worry about the short trips too much. Let it warm up longer, especially if it's cold out. Besides, you can't get a 1500 CC with a standard size box. Nor, can you get a standard size box (2500HD) and get 15-20 mpg unless you have a diesel.

duramaxHD · June 7, 2006

yes, diesels make sense. You can tow stuff across the country and then the next day pull up next to ANY car at a stoplight and embarass them.

(corvettes, vipers, 911's...LUNCH! )

snoman · June 7, 2006

yes, diesels make sense. You can tow stuff across the country and then the next day pull up next to ANY car at a stoplight and embarass them.

(corvettes, vipers, 911's...LUNCH! )

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I would not say that at all because while you are taking the time to put it in 4x4 and torque it up and strain tranny and 4wd system that is not design for that . they will be long cone and they will not run our of RPM at about 100 MPH either. If you want a real street sleeper get a 8.1 and super charge it and get ready for a real ride that does not redline at 3200 RPM either. Also why you can make some impresive torque in a chipped diesel that torqe advantage fades quickly with speed as you have to gear up to keep RPM dowm while a super charged BB can make good torque 5000 RPM or so and 6.0 to about 6000 RPM. I might also add the gasser were towing cross country for many years before there was oil burners too.

Also on original post I agree with the others that a 5.3 1500 would suit you well but I would make 2 suggestions. One is to get a 4.10 and not a 3.73 since you tow some (it will not hurt your MPG and may improve it in town too) and I would add on leaf to either side in rear because the OBS truck thru 99 had 3 leafs plus a booster in rear of truck and the Silverado have 2 leafs and a booster and it is the same spring size and materail otherwise, just less of them to make it ride more like a car at the expense of load capacity and stabilty with loads and when towing.

Wingnut · June 7, 2006

yes, diesels make sense. You can tow stuff across the country and then the next day pull up next to ANY car at a stoplight and embarass them.

(corvettes, vipers, 911's...LUNCH! )

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If you're running 13.2 in the 1/4, you aren't going to embarrass a Vette or a Viper...You wouldn't even "embarrass" me.

I would not say that at all because while you are taking the time to put it in 4x4 and torque it up and strain tranny and 4wd system that is not design for that . they will be long cone and they will not run our of RPM at about 100 MPH either. If you want a real street sleeper get a 8.1 and super charge it and get ready for a real ride that does not redline at 3200 RPM either. Also why you can make some impresive torque in a chipped diesel that torqe advantage fades quickly with speed as you have to gear up to keep RPM dowm while a super charged BB can make good torque 5000 RPM or so and 6.0 to about 6000 RPM. I might also add the gasser were towing cross country for many years before there was oil burners too.

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1 - If you juice an 8.1 up, it's going to hurt the same parts juicing an oil burner is when you abuse it.

2 - If you plan on going much faster than 100MPH, you really shouldn't have bought a truck to begin with.

3 - The 6.0 liter? HAH!

d - Just because gassers were towing first, doesn't mean they're better at it.

Mark, a Z71 with 3:42 3:73 or 4:10 gears will do you just fine.

cowboybinkz71 · June 7, 2006

I"ll echo waht teh others have said. Unless you do tow a lot then a diesel is not cost effective. The Dmax/Allison combo nets about a $7000 premium. The new Dmax trucks get about 15 or so which is about the same as a 1500 Z71. So you're not going to save on the fuel economy and right now diesle is more expensive than regular unleaded which will probably remain the case. Longevity is a moot point becasue you're not going to work either truck to wear them out prematurely. Insurance will be more for the bigger truck (taken from experience). maintainence...you'll need to change the oil every 5k miles and the Dmax uses 12 to 14 quarts of oil, plus the filter so your maintinance costs will be almost double that of a gasser. It's a given that the break even point of gas vs. diesel is over 100k miles for those who tow and almost double that if you don't tow much or at all.

So all that considered, get the half ton gasser. You'll end us saving in the long run IMO. Heck, I jsut sold off my 3rd diesel for that very reasonin...I couldn't justify a heavy duty diesel truck when I dind't tow all that much.

silveradoHO · June 7, 2006

I say go for the 1500 5.3. I have one with 3.42 gears and can pull my dads 5500lb tractor around with ease. Now, if you were going to be pulling something every day, it would be a different story, as the diesel would probably net you better mpg while towing, but for every once in a while, it's not worth the difference.

Shawn T · June 7, 2006

I am looking to upgrade trucks very soon and have never considered a diesel until many of the good things I read on forums like this.

Currently I have a 2wd chevy short bed with 97000 miles (no problems to speak of) and my main reason for the upgrade is I want an extended cab (at least) for more room and 4wd for the lovely midwest winters (and I think they look cool)

To be honest a 1/2 ton truck suits my needs well (frequent trips to Lowes/Home Depot, hauling trash, occassionaly pulling my 69 camaro (although it aint no trailer queen so it doesn't happen alot)

My main reason for even looking at a diesel is longevity (I know these things can go 200k easy), performance, and MPG (it seems like the Duramax can range from 15-20 mpg which is about what I can get with the 5.3. I think longenvity is the big one, I know the gasser lasts a while with routine maintenance but the diesels can go much longer.

My only concern is the maintenance. I do perform the routine stuff now, oil/filter change every 3000-4000 miles, fuel filter, etc. Is the diesel more labor intensive? Do fluids have to be changed at same intervals? My other concern is that my commute to work is only 11.9 miles, one way, and I have heard it is hard on the diesel motor to only drive short distances and not let the motor get warmed up. Any truth to that?

Sorry for the long message but any suggestions are appreciated.

Mark

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You pretty much answered your own question as far as cost/use justification. As far as maintenance costs go, I can give you an answer from experience. I went from a 1500 Z71 with the 5.3L to a DMax/Allison combo. Oil changes cost more, but at twice the mileage interval the diesel is ahead. I run the 5.3L between oil changes at 3-5k miles. The diesel is at 7-10K miles. They don't use 12 quarts. They use 10.5, compared to 6 with the gasser. Fuel filters are a must change on diesels also, and an Allison spin on filter change is needed every now and then too (Only about 8 bucks at an Allison Dealer). I just turned 50K on my truck and I had the other truck @ 80K before the trade. With all of my reciepts, They will be really close in maintenance costs at 80K (The diesel may be a little higher, but not much). I bought it because I wanted it. Buy what your pocketbook agrees with more up front. Diesels are EXPENSIVE and with the cost of diesel compared to gas, the fuel mileage savings is probably a wash comparitively speaking. There is no comparison when it comes to power though. The DMax is a beast. After pulling with the diesel and just driving it for that matter, it would be a kick in the junk for me to go back to a small block gasser. Buy hey, what you don't know, can't hurt you.

duramaxHD · June 8, 2006

I would not say that at all because while you are taking the time to put it in 4x4 and torque it up and strain tranny and 4wd system that is not design for that . they will be long cone and they will not run our of RPM at about 100 MPH either. If you want a real street sleeper get a 8.1 and super charge it and get ready for a real ride that does not redline at 3200 RPM either. Also why you can make some impresive torque in a chipped diesel that torqe advantage fades quickly with speed as you have to gear up to keep RPM dowm while a super charged BB can make good torque 5000 RPM or so and 6.0 to about 6000 RPM. I might also add the gasser were towing cross country for many years before there was oil burners too.

I knew I would be stirring the pot with that. here come the excuses. 13.2 was in street trim, 7200+ pounds, 55psi in tires, 18" wheels/33" tires, t-bars cranked, no Cognito pitman/idler supports. The two sti's, S4, and countless 5.0 and GT mustangs at the track werent happy. Im also dealing with fuel pressure releif valve problems. I can only attain 19,000 psi down the track, when the desired is 23,055. My truck has lots of problems that im dealing with, its not considered a fast duramax by any means. Its slow progress because I do everything myself. Transmission rebuild and turbo install was done by myself (ask anyone, turbo R&R is NOT fun on a dmax, and the GM quote for just removing the trans, not even counting rebuilding it, is something like 6 hours).

If I took off my toolbox, spare tire, tail gate, had less than full fuel, I would probably be 6,800 pounds or so. That time was with a crap 60 foot time too, 1.9x. I have seen a lifted Duramax on 37" tires cut a 1.67 60 foot with my own two eyes (I raced right next to him). If my launch didnt suck and I had taken time to prep the truck, I would have been in the 12.8 range or so, as shown by my oddly high 104mph trap speed (13.2 is more like a 101-102mph trap). Strain on the transmission? You're not going to blow up or strain a Suncoast IV Allison. My truck doesnt run out of steam at 100mph. It runs out of steam at 139. Modded Dmax's peak hp and torque is around 3000/2600. The Allison OD ratio (.71) puts a dmax right in this range on the highway at speed. So on the highway while you're downshifting and winding it up to 12 grand, I just roll into it in OD and away I go. My engine is stock, just a tune. How fast can you make a 7200 pound 8.1 with just a tune?

Theres about a dozen Dmax crew cabs running 11's. TONS of them running 12's. And they all weigh 7000 pounds. And their all diesels! How are those trucks not sleepers? Ive heard of only a handful of fast 8.1s. And their engines were totally built, bored, cam, etc. Take a BONE STOCK LB7 Dmax crew cab, throw a TTS Extreme on it (1200 dollars), then drop in a built LCT-1000 (2700 with core$$), tie rod sleeves (120$) and you will run consistant 12.8's all day on fuel only.

whats the fastest 8.1 running? And I dont mean the fastest 8.1 thats stroked, bored, running stupid amounts of nitrous, cammed, supercharged, and has other $$$$$ engine parts. Does that 8.1 weigh 7,000 pounds?

i dont mean any offence...im just saying you cant get much more sleeper than an HD diesel truck. And at the stoplight, by the time the guy takes you seriously and starts really trying (if he can even drive to begin with), the diesel will be long gone. What kind of 2 wheel drive sports car can cut a 1.8 60 foot time on street tires?

duramaxHD · June 8, 2006

maintainence...you'll need to change the oil every 5k miles and the Dmax uses 12 to 14 quarts of oil
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not quite...

Deere_Daze · June 8, 2006

I see abosolutely no reason why you cant easily get 200,000+ miles out of a 5.3L.

Diesels are nice for the power and fuel economy, but you are going to spend about $7000 more to get a Duramax and the Allison tranny.

You can buy a lot of gas for $7000 and its going to take a loooooong time to burn enough diesel fuel to make up for the cost of buying that engine/tranny.

If you want a diesel and cost is not a factor, go for it. However, I think that a 1500 extended cab with a 5.3L will suit you needs just as well and will cost you considerably less.

cowboybinkz71 · June 8, 2006

not quite...

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Well maybe you're more experienced with diesels. I dunno. I guess since I bought my first diesel abotu 4 years ago (and it was a Duramax that was used for real work not commuting BTW) and owning a Cummins and Powerstroke to boot, maybe I'm missing something. Also, my family's ranch which uses Dmax trucks exclusively may know something. In all of these trucks, they've never gone over 5k on an oil change. I don't care what Cummins says or GM says, you'd be a fool to go over 5k on an oil change in a diesel or a gas burner. I can see maybe if you're driving on the highway unloaded the majorty of the time. But if you work a truck and use it for what it's supposed ot be used for you sure better rethink your maintainance schedule. I"m not one to skimp on PMs especially when everything is high as giraffe ass to replace now a days.

As for quantity, let's see if I remember. Dmax took 10 to 12 quarts (so I was off a couple of quarts), Cummins took 10 quarts and the 'Stroke took 12 to 14.

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