steering rack, idler pitman arms, tie rods???

MillerClemsonHD · July 9, 2005

I took my truck in for an alignment today after putting the h2 wheels and tires on green keys, and rancho shocks and something is messed up.

They said you could move the tire an inch or so without the other one moving. They said they could not get it aligned completely. The Toe In/Out couldnt be done completely. They said with so much play in the steering they couldnt get it done. Anyone else had a problem with something like this or have any idea what it might be?

I called 2 dealerships about the warranty being voided for having the H2 wheels and both said it wouldnt be an issue and that I wouldnt need a letter saying it wouldnt void it or anything. Should I just take it in like it is or change out all the tires back to stock so there are no questions?

Thanks for the help.

dewfpo · July 9, 2005

If it were me and I still had the stock tires/wheels..... I would put them back on and take it to the dealer so that there is no chance of argument.

DEWFPO

facn8me · July 10, 2005

First I would suggest finding a competent alignment shop. One that could find what the problem was. Sounds like an idler arm to me, but they should've been able to tell you cause thier hands were on it.

MillerClemsonHD · July 10, 2005

First I would suggest finding a competent alignment shop. One that could find what the problem was. Sounds like an idler arm to me, but they should've been able to tell you cause thier hands were on it.

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The place I took it was good. They said all the parts looked fine. My truck only has 10k miles on it. Havent had it offroad at all either. They said they couldnt see anything worn out or broken from what they saw but didnt want to mess with it since it is all under warranty. When I drive it the steering wheel is off center when Im driving straight.

mmmikkke · July 10, 2005

First I would suggest finding a competent alignment shop. One that could find what the problem was. Sounds like an idler arm to me, but they should've been able to tell you cause thier hands were on it.

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The place I took it was good. They said all the parts looked fine. My truck only has 10k miles on it. Havent had it offroad at all either. They said they couldnt see anything worn out or broken from what they saw but didnt want to mess with it since it is all under warranty. When I drive it the steering wheel is off center when Im driving straight.

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If your H2 wheels have a different offset than the stock wheels, any alignment will need to be done with the H2 wheels in place. The forces on the front suspension will be higher if the track of the H2 wheels is wider. So your front suspension will compress slightly with the H2 wheels, relative to how the suspension would be with the stock wheels. And since the A-arms are unequal length, the camber changes as the suspension compresses.

Wingnut · July 11, 2005

Sounds exactly like my '92 when I first bought it.

I went through 3 sets of idler arm/pittman arm combos before I solved it by ponying up the extra cabbage for heavy-duty Moog parts. That was about 8 years ago, and they're still holding up.

But if you've got a warranty? Let them figure it out.

MillerClemsonHD · July 11, 2005

Talked to another dealer today who I have used for service in the past. They called GM and said they only support 1 size tire the 245 on the 2500HD. Never said it wil void warranty or not. He suggested not to do it though bc it may cause some problems. Its said he is charge of the service dept bc he really didnt know what he was talking about. Im kind of stuck now bc if I take the H2 wheels n tires off and they fix the idler arm or whatever is broken then I have to pay for another alignment after they return it all to stock. Its BS that an engine transmission and everything else is interchangeable but the wheels and tires are not. guess Im going to try one more dealership and see what they say. If its still a no looks like Ill be taking wheels off by hand and going from there. Im pretty pissed right now and GM wonders why they have problems with customer satisfaction.

Wingnut · July 12, 2005

In their defense (I can't believe I'm defending them ), adding oversized tires GREATLY affects drivetrain components. They sometimes will have to work outside of their design parameters to accellerate, and to keep the truck moving. Not to mention the added unsprung mass the larger wheels/tires add to the equations.

Adding wheels that aren't original equipment can affect suspension geometry adversely as well, if the offset is different from factory.

These things add up to unreliability in the long run, as parts are working harder to achieve the same results as stock sized tires. If they're looking for an excuse to deny a several thousand dollar claim, oversized tires are an easy target, as they affect such a wide range of components.

Yeah....I like my oversized tires and rims too.

MillerClemsonHD · July 12, 2005

I would be more understanding if the tires werent coming off a GM vehicle with the same engine, tranny etc. Sadly the H2 wheels and tires really dont weigh that much more than the Steel/chrome wheels that come on our trucks. I couldnt believe how little the diff was in weight when I had to pick them up. My truck is actually working a lot less on my drive to work everyday. Running about 2000-2500 rpms when before my tires it was more like 3200. I think I would be even less pissed if the tires that came on the truck stock were atleast half decent an didnt look like doughnuts. Atleast Dodge puts decent tires on their trucks, hell a ford f150 has better wheels and tires than our trucks. If a H2 can handle so can my truck.

In their defense (I can't believe I'm defending them ), adding oversized tires GREATLY affects drivetrain components. They sometimes will have to work outside of their design parameters to accellerate, and to keep the truck moving. Not to mention the added unsprung mass the larger wheels/tires add to the equations.

Adding wheels that aren't original equipment can affect suspension geometry adversely as well, if the offset is different from factory.

These things add up to unreliability in the long run, as parts are working harder to achieve the same results as stock sized tires. If they're looking for an excuse to deny a several thousand dollar claim, oversized tires are an easy target, as they affect such a wide range of components.

Yeah....I like my oversized tires and rims too.

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silverado3500 · July 13, 2005

I think their argument was not as much the H2 wheel, as much as it was the the oversized tire. I bet they wouldn't argue about it with a 245/75R16 mounted on the H2 rim.

If you want to try and narrow down the problem yourself, here are some things to look for.....

1. jack up one wheel at a time, and with the wheel still on the truck. Carefull pull at the top and bottom of of the tire. If there is play here, the problem will likely be either a wheel bearing, upper ball joint, lower ball joing, a bad upper control arm bushing/loose upper control arm adjustment cam. (upper control arm bushing is not likely to be bad with only 10k.) You will be able to tell what the problem is by where the play is...

2. with the truck on the ground, have a friend start the truck and move the wheel back and forth just enough to move both tires a little.

Look at the pitman arm, the idler arm, the drag link, and the tie rod ends. Specifically, look for any up/down play, you can sometimes feel it too.

If the play is at one of the wheels, you have a bad ball joint, and will have to replace the outer tie rod end.

If the play is at the ball joint just outside of the idler/pitman arm

If the play is in the middle, you will likely have a bad idler arm, or possibly pitman arm, though I would suspect the idler arm first. Hope that helps...

Wingnut · July 13, 2005

I would be more understanding if the tires werent coming off a GM vehicle with the same engine, tranny etc. Sadly the H2 wheels and tires really dont weigh that much more than the Steel/chrome wheels that come on our trucks. I couldnt believe how little the diff was in weight when I had to pick them up. My truck is actually working a lot less on my drive to work everyday. Running about 2000-2500 rpms when before my tires it was more like 3200. I think I would be even less pissed if the tires that came on the truck stock were atleast half decent an didnt look like doughnuts. Atleast Dodge puts decent tires on their trucks, hell a ford f150 has better wheels and tires than our trucks. If a H2 can handle so can my truck.

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Sure an H2 can handle it...Sure the tires and wheels came off another GM vehicle with the same engine/tranny combo.

Problem is, your truck isn't set up for them. It's set up for the donuts. That's why you're only running 2000-2500 rpms when you were running 3200...Which is where it should be running for your particular setup. If you threw a decent sized trailer on there, you would be lugging like a big dog, as you've gotten rid of a lot of low end torque. You're changing the final drive ratio by adding taller tires. It screws with everything from your engine to your rear diff.