2001 2500HD with a 5 speed and 6.0 Liter

Scyry · July 8, 2004

I have been having troubles with my drive train. Last November my transfer case seal to the tranny went. Then my tranny kept squealing everytime I was taking off. After 3 trips to one dealership with no solution, I went to another, they drained the tranny and found metal flakes, the tranny was replaced with a new one. That was about 2 months and 2,000 miles ago.

Well currently my new tranny is making some odd noises and doing some wierd things. I just want to ask if anyone thinks it just needs some tuning or it is something more.

When I shift in or out of 2nd gear no matter how slowly I move the clutch in or out, it makes a loud, bang like two pieces of metal slamming together. It does this when I push in the clutch and again when I let the clutch out. Any ideas on what could be worng?

The other thing with the tranny is that no matter what gear I am shifting into it resists me. When I move the shifter into the gear, half way in it fights me for half a second or so then lets the shifter fall into place. This is no matter what gear 1st through 5th. It feels like when you try to down shift at too high of speed and gyros prevent you from going into a lower gear.

Those are the 2 problems I am having with the new tranny and have no clue if they are related.

Also I am having trouble with my transfer case or something else in my 4WD system. I have the floor shifter. When I shift out of 4 HI back to 2 HI it doesn't switch out for a minute atleast after I shift it back. It has no hesitation going into 4 HI though. It sort of feels like one of the hubs is binding and causing the trouble, but I am not sure. Could this stem from the fluids getting low when the transfer case seal went bad? It was a real slow leak, and did not leave a spot where I parked anytime, so I didn't notice it until I was checking fluids, could of been a 1,000 miles or so before I had realized it was low. Anyways any input would be great, I am just trying to get ideas of what is going on before my appointment to have it checked out.

snoman · July 8, 2004

It kinda sounds like clutch is not fully releasing and making shifting difficult and causing syncronizer wear and explains metal flakes in oil so some again. The clutch needs to ne inspected visually. On the xfer case problem if it was run low on oil for a while and used is 4wd during this time it could have been damaged internally some especailly if you have oversized tires and tall gear because this loads xfer case more and make it more suseptable to damage when low on lube.

Scyry · July 8, 2004

When the first tranny was replaced they found a large scar across the teeth of one of the gears. This was supposedly eating up the other gears and could not of been caused by wear and tear. The techs and warranty rep thought it had to of been scarred before it was put together. I also asked them to check the clutch while it was opened up, it was at 51,000 miles, they said it looked fine. I had not had any problems shifting like this before the original tranny was taken out, and this started right after it was put in. I went on a 3 week vacation to see my family right after I got the truck back so I had no driving time on it immediately after getting the repairs done. I hope it is not the clutch because it was just opened up and they said it was ok, I will be rather upset if it has to be replaced, it shouldn't of worn out in 50,000+ miles.

On the transfer case, I don't think I put it into 4WD at anytime when it would have been low. It was fall and there hadn't been a snow storm yet, and I didn't get a chance to go hunting or fishing last year, so I don't see when I would of had to need to use 4WD. As for taller tires, have run Goodyear ATS 275/75/R16's since about 12,000 miles, been great tires 40,000 miles and just needing to replace them now, plus the truck has a locking diffy. So do have the next size up from stock on tires, but with the 4.10 rear end I didn't notice a difference in power when I switched. The only performance mods I have done is I put in a K&N filter in the stock air box and switched out the stock exhaust for a Gibson cat back system. Both just minor things. I am not sure how well the transfer case was checked out when the seal went, they replaced all the fluids in it. Though they didn't check the tranny at the time, later it was found that a lot of the gear oil in the transfer case had migrated to the tranny. I drove the truck 5,000 miles before I found the gear oil in the tranny, the truck had been back for servicing at the same dealer between when the transfer case was worked on and when I found the gear oil.

By the way for people that live in Denver, the dealer that didn't check the fluids in the tranny when the seal between the tranny and transfer case went, and took 4 trips to them to figure out that the tranny had metal flakes in it, was Ed Bozarth in Lone Tree. Luby replaced the tranny and were really nice and helpful.

So I bet the transfer case probably was hurt during this, but I drove the truck October to June, around 10,000 miles, since the transfer case problem. Had no problems with it in that time, and had to use 4WD many times. I also forgot that when I make a right turn, like on a big round on or off ramp, or any right turn that is wider than just a regluar right at a stop sign, the left hub area squeals. Sounds sort of like a bearing is bad, don't know if it could have anything with the front end not disengaging right. When it does act up if I turn either way it sort of feels like I am dragging the front left tire, like it went flat or something. When it does drop back to 4HI, it is a sudden pop, and then you are back out of 4WD.

snoman · July 8, 2004

It could be a problem with the pressure plate and not the cluch disc itself. I still think trouble lies there becuase if it is not releasing properly it will shift had and wear syncronizers. On the squeal, I suspect a wheel bearing assembly on that side. It a hard turn it has some slop in it and it "flexes" against caliper. See if it stll makes noise if brakes are applied when it squeals.

Scyry · July 9, 2004

Just a thought I had, my power steering is a little sluggish of late. Does the same pump that provides power for my power steering also do the pressure plate? BTW, I miss being able to actually feel the clutch like I used to in my 1990 1/2 ton with a 5 speed and 350, d**n that truck was fun to drive.

snoman · July 9, 2004

Just a thought I had, my power steering is a little sluggish of late. Does the same pump that provides power for my power steering also do the pressure plate? BTW, I miss being able to actually feel the clutch like I used to in my 1990 1/2 ton with a 5 speed and 350, d**n that truck was fun to drive.

Power steer pump is unrelated. Yes newer is not always better. Many years ago I had a 72 GMC 3/4 ton 4x4 that I got when it was a year old. That had a great clutch action in it and was a very strong one too. (12 inch from factory) My wifes 2000 Cherokee with a 4cyl and a stick has a pretty nice clutch action to it to and is easy to drive for a stick. I have not driven a NBS with a stick so I cannot comment on it. only OBS's. The clutch assembley needs to be pulled and inspected as something is not right in there somewhere and it is toasting your tranny. Inspect linkage on bell housing while someone is work the clutch pedal and make sure it is working properly too.

Scyry · July 9, 2004

Thanks for the help Snoman, now I atleast have an idea where to start when I go into the dealership next week. Here is the list of the problems I am having:

1.) Tranny

2.) Power steering is getting weak

3.) Left front wheel bearing

4.) Motor has lost significant power and gas milage

5.) 4WD problem

6.) Throttle is sticking

7.) Parking break is worthless (has been since I bought the truck)

8.) Key falls out of the ignition while driving

9.) Engine has the "knock" (still don't believe GM's explanation)

10.) Vacum leak somewhere on the engine

11.) Paint is going bad

Most of these problems have shown up in the last 2,000 miles. Some are still here after battling with GM for months about fixing them. I have also had the whole power window units replaced on both windows, window defroster on the driver side replaced twice, transfer case leak, and the driver side window replaced due to the power window unit scratching it up. The truck is only 2.5 years old and had 20,000 miles on it last June, I am now at 53,000 miles and worried the truck won't see 100,000 miles. I have it serviced regularly and am always watching fluids, things on my own and the truck is never beat on; has no door dings and only 2 scratches I couldn't buff out. My friends call it the princess cause I clean it weekly and spend so much time taking care of it. I just don't understand why it has so many problems and GM keeps just blowing me off

snoman · July 9, 2004

BTW, I have been to Colorado a lot and I love your state and me and the wife are thinking of retiring there or a bit sooner. I spent 3 weeks out there in June last year.

On your power loss, are you using oversized tires ans what axle ratios do you have as they become even more omportant at higher altitudes because of decreased engine output.

On the "knock", I have read a lot about this problem from others and it seems that GM made tens of thousands of engine with undersized pistons and they are trying to blow it off as sticky rings. It knocks some on startup right (worse the colder it is) and goes away when warm huh. It does this because the piston swells in bore enough when hot to stop or limit knock caused by the piston rattling in the bore. The good news is that it more of a bother than a problem but it should not be there to begin with and it will get louder with time. GM knows that if they start fixing a few of them, them will have to spend tens of millions to fix them all so they are resisting. It is not going to blow up from it though. I do not own any of the newer modular engines such as yours so I do not have this problem. I have 2 tried and trued 350's at the moment , the newest one is in a 2000 K3500 OBS which I selected over a NBS that year to get it and the BorgWarner tranfer case in my model too. The 350 is lendary in reliabilty if taken care of.

They should fix paint if you fuss at them enough

Scyry · July 9, 2004

I have 275/75/R16 on the truck, but I have had them on there for 40,000+ miles and I have the 4.10 rear end. The power drop off has happened in the last few months. A lot of my family lives in California and I have made 6 round trips to there with the truck, often hauling furniture and other things. If you have ever driven I-70 from Denver to I-15 you know how many hills (hehe the Rockies) there are inbetween. Driving that way I'd only have to downshift to 4th maybe 2 or 3 times depending on winds and stuff and I cruised the route at 80 or so mph. I had no power problems and with the right tail wind would get 20+ mpg.

I drove the same route from my Dad's house to college fall semester, it was an hour trip each way and mainly highway. I did this 4 days a week and the rest of the time the truck sat around. During that time I averaged approxiametly 15 mpg, I don't keep records, I just click the trip and go "ok put 20 gallons in it and drove 310 miles, let see that is about 15mpg." Month ago I house sat for my Dad while he was away so I was doing the same trip again. I got about 240 miles per tank, around 10 mpg. I also had to down shift on many hills and grades I had never had to think about it. On a hill that is maybe 3/4 of a mile long that I used to cruise up at 70 mph and have no worries, I now have to down shift or I drop to 55 mph. I took the truck in twice on this problem already, they plug it in and say the computer can't find a problem. They did some basic stuff that is just maintenance that it was almost due for, changed fuel filter and ran a top engine cleaner. They also said maybe it was my air filter, the drop in K&N air filter seems to confuse GM techs. Basically I have spent $600 and no fix yet, that is a lot for me as a college student that works part time. The response I always get first off is "the knock is normal" even though I have said to them, it knocks, but what I really care about is the power/gas milage loss. This makes me think there is a real problem with the knock, along with the fact they were originally buying back the trucks or replacing the engines. My nieghbor has the same exact truck just an automatic and they replaced his engine at 22,000 miles, I have a copy of the worksheet.

Basically I am pissed at myself for selling my first truck, 1990 1500 C/K 2WD regular cab with a 350 and a 5 speed behind it. The truck was so much fun to drive, I had put a raiser plate, flow master single tube, and a K&N filter on it. My Dad bought the truck new and gave it to me when I turned 16, when I sold it, it had 262,000 miles on it and was just starting to slow down. It had the manifold gasket replaced at 190,000 miles, was on its third clutch, second muffler, 1 new diffy, blown a coolant tube and the AC had gone out once, otherwise it had never had any problems besides the famous paint peeling away after 2 years. Basically a great all around truck. I understand that some cars are lemons, it happens. I just wish GM would stand up and own up to their problems. Hell I have the 100,000 mile warranty, and they still won't do crap.

snoman · July 9, 2004

On the power loss, it almost sounds like sprak is being retarded and you are losing power. Does it run poorly on better grade fuel too.

Scyry · July 12, 2004

I run midgrade, I think that is 87 octane here. I haven't run premium so not sure. It doesn't seem to be burning any oil, it doesn't idle rough, or run rough. My Dad has a GMC 2500HD 6.0 with a automatic and 3.73, and it has a lot more power than my truck. He has 265/70/R17, so the tires are pretty much the same hieght/width, so I don't think I am off in comparing the two trucks. I usually drive his atleast once a week. The power drop of actually started immediately after they ran a top engine cleaner on my truck. It makes me think some injectors could be clogged or something, but I don't really know enough to say.

With my knock, it always knocks no matter what when I start it and it had set 15 minutes or so. The knock lasts longer on cold starts though. When the truck is warm it only knocks around 15 to 30 seconds. When it has been a cold night, freezing or better, it will knock until the truck warms up, and it knocks so loud it can be heard in my house, I park 20+ feet away on the street. I tried to take in a few times when it was supposed to be cold, but both times the dealer didn't start it in the morning on a cold night. Once the tranny was out, and the other time they had to drain the top engine cleaner out first. So both times they couldn't duplicate it. When it is a normal night it sounds like the normal knock except it lasts longers...until warm, and it slowly goes away as the engine warms up. I really believe I have a cracked piston skirt but I cannot prove it. Oh well, I guess I wait until next winter to complain again.

Scyry · August 6, 2004

Update:

Well everything with the tranny and transfer case is due to the clutch not disengaging totally. At first they "could not duplicate the problem" but then a tech that had the same engine/tranny combo as me drove the truck and could "barely notice it." When I drove it to the dealership it flat refused to go into 4th a few times for me. Basically the whole clutch assembly is almost gone, master and slave cylinder, pressure plate, all the bearing, everything in it. The master cylinder had metal flakes in it, and "wasn't working at full capacity." I am willing to bet the master cylinder went and ate all of the clutch, probably why the first tranny went. Anyways they want me to pay about $900 to fix the clutch, parts are $740 alone. I am trying to make them warranty it, hell they should of checked the clutch when the first tranny went. My past clutches have gone 80,000 and 90,000 miles plus so I know I didn't fry it this fast. The truck had only hauled a 17' boat 6 maybe 8 times total of 30 miles round trip each and pulled a Uhual trailer 1,200 miles, everything else is highway miles. I could understand if the plates or a bearing went, maybe, but the whole d**n thing? Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I am supposed to meet the factory rep here soonish.

The throttle was sticking because of carbon build up in the throttle assembly (How the hell did that happen?) They still have no answer for my loss of power and gas mileage, though I bet the throttle being gummed up may have helped cause it. They cannot duplicate the squealing from my front driver's side hub. My iginition had pretty much completely died before I went there, I would turn the key and absolutely nothing would happen, not even a single light on the dash would come on, jiggle it and nothing, come back 15 minutes later and it would start. The power steering they blame on me switching to 275/75/R16's vs the opriginal 265/75/R16's, I cry bull s**t on that, I haven't had a problem with the power steering for the first 30,000+ miles I put on the tires. Parking brake is the same old BS "not covered by warranty." They are ignoring the knocking issue still, the d**n thing knocks anytime you start it now, and twice as rapidly as it used to. To top it all off, I drove it to the dealer, 2 hour drive, on the hottest day of the summer, and voila no AC. I was so pissed off, the button on the dash had gone out. Funny electronics don't like being hot, but if I drive for an hour or more my dash is almost too hot to touch, great engineering there.

SO basically I do not trust the truck at all anymore. I am still pushing for them to do a full retail trade in for me. If not I am going to sell the truck in the next few months, take the cash and go buy a reliable mid to late 90's 5-speed, 350 1/2 ton and play with it. It seems they are just having too many problems with the new trucks and after the original warranty runs out, you are just a piece of s**t not worth GM's attention. I grew up with almost exclusively GM's, my parents have probably bought 30+ vehicles from GM in the past 30 years for work or home. I don't think I will have the same loyalty to GM if their customer service is going to be so s**tty.