5w30 oil

[customboss]

3 hours ago, VicFirth said:

 

 

 

 

I bet my L3B wouldn't eat that. 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

You’re just being ridiculous. As a rule and as prescribed by the manufacturer these are procedures. These aren’t opinions that’s their recommendation. There hasn’t been mass failures by going by those. My dentist says you need your teeth cleaned once a year. I said I read on line it’s better two times . He says in my 30 years of dentistry one time does it. Buuut if you want two that’s fine. I can make silly analogies too. 

was it the wiener joke that set you off?  LOL  

[KARNUT]

31 minutes ago, customboss said:

was it the wiener joke that set you off?  LOL  

Actually it’s saying it’s ok to use the manufacturer’s recommendation. I’ve been on multiple forums it’s amazing how little some people know. And the questions they ask. I’ve rebuilt everything to do with automobiles and heavy equipment. From TS-24 V-12s to a 289 Ford engine. And my first go cart engine at 12 years old. I know stats when I need to. Forget them when I am through. I have the most fun reading you and Grumpy going at it. Sometimes I like to remind people it’s ok to use the manual and follow it. Chances are doing that your vehicle experiences will be fine. Rocket science isn’t it? 

[OnTheReel]

Read a manual for a modern vehicle lately? The science of what a lubricant can handle has mostly given way to marketing gimmicks. Make an owner think their maintenance costs will be lower with long OCIs and even “lifetime transmission fluid”. The internet is littered with people who bought into that and then bought a new transmission or a new car after 125k miles.

If you want more than that out of a vehicle it’s on the owner to be proactive. The lubricants don’t care what the OEMs claim, they degrade anyway.

[customboss]

3 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Actually it’s saying it’s ok to use the manufacturer’s recommendation. I’ve been on multiple forums it’s amazing how little some people know. And the questions they ask. I’ve rebuilt everything to do with automobiles and heavy equipment. From TS-24 V-12s to a 289 Ford engine. And my first go cart engine at 12 years old. I know stats when I need to. Forget them when I am through. I have the most fun reading you and Grumpy going at it. Sometimes I like to remind people it’s ok to use the manual and follow it. Chances are doing that your vehicle experiences will be fine. Rocket science isn’t it? 

We get compensated to entertain. 

[KARNUT]

1 hour ago, OnTheReel said:

Read a manual for a modern vehicle lately? The science of what a lubricant can handle has mostly given way to marketing gimmicks. Make an owner think their maintenance costs will be lower with long OCIs and even “lifetime transmission fluid”. The internet is littered with people who bought into that and then bought a new transmission or a new car after 125k miles.

If you want more than that out of a vehicle it’s on the owner to be proactive. The lubricants don’t care what the OEMs claim, they degrade anyway.

That’s funny. The longest are Honda, Toyota. They’re also the longest lasting.

[OnTheReel]

3 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

That’s funny. The longest are Honda, Toyota. They’re also the longest lasting.

Past performance is not indicative of future results. Applies to more than just investments.

[Grumpy Bear]

8 hours ago, KARNUT said:

You’re just being ridiculous. As a rule and as prescribed by the manufacturer these are procedures. These aren’t opinions that’s their recommendation. There hasn’t been mass failures by going by those. My dentist says you need your teeth cleaned once a year. I said I read on line it’s better two times . He says in my 30 years of dentistry one time does it. Buuut if you want two that’s fine. I can make silly analogies too. 

 

Let's test that idea the manufacture has it down. Dizzy. Dexos1Gen2 oil. 7,500-mile OCI's. That's the manufactures recommended oil and interval. I shortened that to 5K. Just be safe. What was the result of FOLLOWING the Pied Pipper? 

 

Coked oil rings by 80K miles. Hold that thought. 

 

Pepper shares the SAME oil ring DLH low tension thin ring design and has the SAME recommended oil type and oil change interval. I IGNORED their instructions. 5K as well on OCI and doubled down on my POA/POE OVERBASED fluid. What was the result of that. (I drive both primarily). 183,000 miles. Clean, functional ring sets. No oil consumption. Oil looks better at 5K than Dizzy does at 1K. They are BOTH flawed designs. Have the TSB's to show it. 

 

I used the OEM recommended oils and service intervals with the wife's Toyota Paseo. 80K and oil consuming nightmare.  Red Line HP in her 2003 Civic, 5K OCI's. Went to the grave flawless totaled by my mother well over 200K. 2006 Civic parted our company 235K using zero oil. Red Line motor on 7.5K OCI's. 

 

I used my POA/POE oil at 7.K Intervals in my 98 Civic HX. Results? 200K miles with a motor that had a leak down rate of under 5%, new compression pressures and zero consumption when I sold it. Neighbors DX using Honda Oil and dealer service. Oil eating pig in under 100K. Son's Odessey. Oil eating pig using Honda Oil at OEM intervals. How long would you like me to make this list of FAILED OEM recommended services? Failed OEM qualified oils.  I have many more. It's a big family. Neighbors Hundi Sonata starting consuming oil by the bucket by 60K on dealer services and Hundi told them to pack sand. His Ford F150 ditto. 

 

How long would you like the list of 500K plus motors that use little to no oil ignoring the OEM recommended oils and procedures. That too is a long list As I said, big family. Two Chevy vans at 1 million miles each on OEM OCI on AMSOIL SS. Same operator and maintenance person. The Operator. 750K Ford FE 390 went to the wrecking yard, totaled. 1K OCI's and Trop-Artic 5W30 of the 1960's. 80'S Chevy CK 750K mile 1K OCI's Phillips Conventional oil. Million-mile 36 Ford Flathead, 1K mile OCI's and until the late 1950's Conventional Paraffinic Group1 SAE 30. Trop-Artic 5W30 for about a decade then Cen-Pe-Co Group II. SAE 30. I got more.....

 

There recommendations aren't even opinions. They are profit centers. 

 

Will millions of Americans make it to the next sale on OEM oil and intervals. Yep.... And I will never know the TRUTH about how much oil they use or how they drove them. Bad data is worse IMHO than no data. Kind of why I don't buy used over 20K miles on them. 

 

Ridiculous is believing your experience is the only experience. Now, you seem good with oil consumption. Me....not so much. And I get bit every time I TRUST the manufacturers. BUT, I don't believe that is true for everyone. I've related the experience more than once of a fellow worker in El Paso that bought a new Monte Carlo and ran it 150K and NEVER changed the oil or the filter. Just added as it used, and it used a bunch. Carried a case in the trunk. He did not consider that an oil failure. 

[KARNUT]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Let's test that idea the manufacture has it down. Dizzy. Dexos1Gen2 oil. 7,500-mile OCI's. That's the manufactures recommended oil and interval. I shortened that to 5K. Just be safe. What was the result of FOLLOWING the Pied Pipper? 

 

Coked oil rings by 80K miles. Hold that thought. 

 

Pepper shares the SAME oil ring DLH low tension thin ring design and has the SAME recommended oil type and oil change interval. I IGNORED their instructions. 5K as well on OCI and doubled down on my POA/POE OVERBASED fluid. What was the result of that. (I drive both primarily). 183,000 miles. Clean, functional ring sets. No oil consumption. Oil looks better at 5K than Dizzy does at 1K. They are BOTH flawed designs. Have the TSB's to show it. 

 

I used the OEM recommended oils and service intervals with the wife's Toyota Paseo. 80K and oil consuming nightmare.  Red Line HP in her 2003 Civic, 5K OCI's. Went to the grave flawless totaled by my mother well over 200K. 2006 Civic parted our company 235K using zero oil. Red Line motor on 7.5K OCI's. 

 

I used my POA/POE oil at 7.K Intervals in my 98 Civic HX. Results? 200K miles with a motor that had a leak down rate of under 5%, new compression pressures and zero consumption when I sold it. Neighbors DX using Honda Oil and dealer service. Oil eating pig in under 100K. Son's Odessey. Oil eating pig using Honda Oil at OEM intervals. How long would you like me to make this list of FAILED OEM recommended services? Failed OEM qualified oils.  I have many more. It's a big family. Neighbors Hundi Sonata starting consuming oil by the bucket by 60K on dealer services and Hundi told them to pack sand. His Ford F150 ditto. 

 

How long would you like the list of 500K plus motors that use little to no oil ignoring the OEM recommended oils and procedures. That too is a long list As I said, big family. Two Chevy vans at 1 million miles each on OEM OCI on AMSOIL SS. Same operator and maintenance person. The Operator. 750K Ford FE 390 went to the wrecking yard, totaled. 1K OCI's and Trop-Artic 5W30 of the 1960's. 80'S Chevy CK 750K mile 1K OCI's Phillips Conventional oil. Million-mile 36 Ford Flathead, 1K mile OCI's and until the late 1950's Conventional Paraffinic Group1 SAE 30. Trop-Artic 5W30 for about a decade then Cen-Pe-Co Group II. SAE 30. I got more.....

 

There recommendations aren't even opinions. They are profit centers. 

 

Will millions of Americans make it to the next sale on OEM oil and intervals. Yep.... And I will never know the TRUTH about how much oil they use or how they drove them. Bad data is worse IMHO than no data. Kind of why I don't buy used over 20K miles on them. 

 

Ridiculous is believing your experience is the only experience. Now, you seem good with oil consumption. Me....not so much. And I get bit every time I TRUST the manufacturers. BUT, I don't believe that is true for everyone. I've related the experience more than once of a fellow worker in El Paso that bought a new Monte Carlo and ran it 150K and NEVER changed the oil or the filter. Just added as it used, and it used a bunch. Carried a case in the trunk. He did not consider that an oil failure. 

I haven’t had a problem with oil usage. Only recently I dropped to 5K mile oil changes, mostly do to too many vehicles lack of use. It amounts to time more than mileage. As far as examples. I have a large family and a busy business. My wife has a Acura that cruises at almost 4K RPMs at 70. Doesn’t use a drop of oil. For decades we went with extended. The only difference must be you and yours are maybe too gentle on your vehicles. We definitely aren’t. Do we generally run vehicles past 200K miles? No. Do we want to? No. So maybe the millions and millions of people like you who do shouldn’t follow the manufacturer’s suggestions. I haven’t needed to worry about it because I don’t have the problem. I’m actually amazed when I read about the people who do. I lived on the extended oil changes extreme use of vehicles and equipment for decades. My vehicles lived the life they were designed for. As with the vast majority of people I know. Only on this website I’ve read about oil usage problems. Those people seemed to be trying say the rest of us are doing it wrong. So no I’m not satisfied with using oil. I’m not using oil. 

[AJMBLAZER]

7 hours ago, KARNUT said:

That’s funny. The longest are Honda, Toyota. They’re also the longest lasting.

My wife had a 2009 Honda Accord when we met. Only ever serviced at the Honda dealership she bought it from.  At around 30,000 miles it started using oil and had to be put in a oil use test program through the dealership to figure out what was wrong. They never really fessed up to anything so we sold it in 2013.

[KARNUT]

14 minutes ago, AJMBLAZER said:

My wife had a 2009 Honda Accord when we met. Only ever serviced at the Honda dealership she bought it from.  At around 30,000 miles it started using oil and had to be put in an oil use test program through the dealership to figure out what was wrong. They never really fessed up to anything so we sold it in 2013.

Sure we can all find examples of miss fires from any manufacturer. When some people use examples of problem solving I have to scratch my head. Some are and may be solving a problem. For instance. One person may say they’re concerned about their oil analysts. So they change brands and shorten the oil change interval. The next test shows an improvement. I solved the problem they say. Well no. They pulled the oil sooner. It wasn’t the oil. They only changed the time of use. Another person says my cousin doesn’t change his oil often. So near the end of the vehicles life it uses oil. I’ll show him. I’ll change my oil by half compared to him. Who uses more oil in the vehicles life? Another person in attempt to prolong his vehicle life changes the oil more often the more miles he drives. Finally the wear slows down. Maybe there’s less to wear. What’s the next sound you’re going to hear? We all have different experiences. Especially with vehicles. I only relay those. In my world I’ve met a lots of people. I’ve used vehicles in the extreme. My trucks have been used as trucks. My cars have been driven hard. Some modified. My equipment has been run at redline. The attachment has called for it. Half my trucks have pulled equipment over max payload. I’ve driven over 2 million miles, half that pulling my equipment. I have always asked questions for the experience of knowing. I know what trucks are the best for certain uses. My world is on the extreme side. I’m not a bench tester. I have done test in the field. When the new sticker on your vehicle says you’re fuel mileage may vary. That’s the difference between the bench or controlled testing and real life. I haven’t had an oil usage problem. Maybe I know something. 

[customboss]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Let's test that idea the manufacture has it down. Dizzy. Dexos1Gen2 oil. 7,500-mile OCI's. That's the manufactures recommended oil and interval. I shortened that to 5K. Just be safe. What was the result of FOLLOWING the Pied Pipper? 

 

Coked oil rings by 80K miles. Hold that thought. 

 

Pepper shares the SAME oil ring DLH low tension thin ring design and has the SAME recommended oil type and oil change interval. I IGNORED their instructions. 5K as well on OCI and doubled down on my POA/POE OVERBASED fluid. What was the result of that. (I drive both primarily). 183,000 miles. Clean, functional ring sets. No oil consumption. Oil looks better at 5K than Dizzy does at 1K. They are BOTH flawed designs. Have the TSB's to show it. 

 

I used the OEM recommended oils and service intervals with the wife's Toyota Paseo. 80K and oil consuming nightmare.  Red Line HP in her 2003 Civic, 5K OCI's. Went to the grave flawless totaled by my mother well over 200K. 2006 Civic parted our company 235K using zero oil. Red Line motor on 7.5K OCI's. 

 

I used my POA/POE oil at 7.K Intervals in my 98 Civic HX. Results? 200K miles with a motor that had a leak down rate of under 5%, new compression pressures and zero consumption when I sold it. Neighbors DX using Honda Oil and dealer service. Oil eating pig in under 100K. Son's Odessey. Oil eating pig using Honda Oil at OEM intervals. How long would you like me to make this list of FAILED OEM recommended services? Failed OEM qualified oils.  I have many more. It's a big family. Neighbors Hundi Sonata starting consuming oil by the bucket by 60K on dealer services and Hundi told them to pack sand. His Ford F150 ditto. 

 

How long would you like the list of 500K plus motors that use little to no oil ignoring the OEM recommended oils and procedures. That too is a long list As I said, big family. Two Chevy vans at 1 million miles each on OEM OCI on AMSOIL SS. Same operator and maintenance person. The Operator. 750K Ford FE 390 went to the wrecking yard, totaled. 1K OCI's and Trop-Artic 5W30 of the 1960's. 80'S Chevy CK 750K mile 1K OCI's Phillips Conventional oil. Million-mile 36 Ford Flathead, 1K mile OCI's and until the late 1950's Conventional Paraffinic Group1 SAE 30. Trop-Artic 5W30 for about a decade then Cen-Pe-Co Group II. SAE 30. I got more.....

 

There recommendations aren't even opinions. They are profit centers. 

 

Will millions of Americans make it to the next sale on OEM oil and intervals. Yep.... And I will never know the TRUTH about how much oil they use or how they drove them. Bad data is worse IMHO than no data. Kind of why I don't buy used over 20K miles on them. 

 

Ridiculous is believing your experience is the only experience. Now, you seem good with oil consumption. Me....not so much. And I get bit every time I TRUST the manufacturers. BUT, I don't believe that is true for everyone. I've related the experience more than once of a fellow worker in El Paso that bought a new Monte Carlo and ran it 150K and NEVER changed the oil or the filter. Just added as it used, and it used a bunch. Carried a case in the trunk. He did not consider that an oil failure. 

You make good points. 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Sure we can all find examples of miss fires from any manufacturer. When some people use examples of problem solving I have to scratch my head.

 

So, if you stick your hand in the fire and get burned but not when you don't, it puzzles you? 

 

Class Action Settlement Reached Over Honda Accord Oil Defect (topclassactions.com)

 

New Hyundai, Kia Engine Failure Settlement Covers 2.1M Additional Vehicles (classaction.org)

 

Final Approval Granted for Chevy Equinox, GMC Excessive Oil Consumption Settlement (classaction.org)

 

How long would you like this list. I'm just getting warmed up. 

 

If you read this settlement post, and I know you won't, you will see that Dizzy is NOT PART of the suit. Ergo her issues are NOT FLAW related as far as the LAW is concerned. 2013 and newer motors were 'modified' to limit this issue. So, the issue is OIL and PROCEEDURE related (OCI recommendation)? It's a good bet.  

 

Pepper:   MC-10161887-9999.pdf (nhtsa.gov)

 

Same defect and yet I have no issues. Why? I ignore OEM recommendations for both fluid type and interval. 

 

Except for those motors that chronically pump fuel into the crankcase: 

Class Action Alleges Honda Hid Engine Oil Dilution ‘Defect’ in Newer CR-V, Civic, Accord Models

 

The first group of manufacturers COULD avoid this mess with a different fluid and OCI. I do  Those with leaking HPFP just need to fix the pump. 

 

No cherry picking going on here. This list is long and distinguished. BMW, Porsche, VW Ford and shall I continue?

 

Here's the problem Stan. The oils you and I grew up with.....they are few and far between anymore. 

 

What you and I and most our age grew up with:

 

 

More recently: 

 

 

Dexos1Gen2 and 3 have a 0W20 HTHS of the minimum 2.6 cP Group III/IV

Red Line HP 0W20 is a 2.9 cP fluid. (SAE 30 spec) POA/POE

Evolve EvoSyn 0W20 is at 2.91, also SAE 30 84% plant based. 

 

Every Choice Matters

You not believing that doesn't.

Edited August 21 by Grumpy Bear

[KARNUT]

6 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

So, if you stick your hand in the fire and get burned but not when you don't, it puzzles you? 

 

Class Action Settlement Reached Over Honda Accord Oil Defect (topclassactions.com)

 

New Hyundai, Kia Engine Failure Settlement Covers 2.1M Additional Vehicles (classaction.org)

 

Final Approval Granted for Chevy Equinox, GMC Excessive Oil Consumption Settlement (classaction.org)

 

How long would you like this list. I'm just getting warmed up. 

 

If you read this settlement post, and I know you won't, you will see that Dizzy is NOT PART of the suit. Ergo her issues are NOT FLAW related as far as the LAW is concerned. 2013 and newer motors were 'modified' to limit this issue. So, the issue is OIL and PROCEEDURE related (OCI recommendation)? It's a good bet.  

 

Pepper:   MC-10161887-9999.pdf (nhtsa.gov)

 

Same defect and yet I have no issues. Why? I ignore OEM recommendations for both fluid type and interval. 

 

Except for those motors that chronically pump fuel into the crankcase: 

Class Action Alleges Honda Hid Engine Oil Dilution ‘Defect’ in Newer CR-V, Civic, Accord Models

 

The first group of manufacturers COULD avoid this mess with a different fluid and OCI. I do  Those with leaking HPFP just need to fix the pump. 

 

No cherry picking going on here. This list is long and distinguished. BMW, Porsche, VW Ford and shall I continue?

 

Here's the problem Stan. The oils you and I grew up with.....they are few and far between anymore. 

 

What you and I and most our age grew up with:

 

 

More recently: 

 

 

Dexos1Gen2 and 3 have a 0W20 HTHS of the minimum 2.6 cP Group III/IV

Red Line HP 0W20 is a 2.9 cP fluid. (SAE 30 spec) POA/POE

Evolve EvoSyn 0W20 is at 2.91, also SAE 30 84% plant based. 

 

Every Choice Matters

You not believing that doesn't.

We both have different experiences. I’ve owned most of the brands. I live in a different part of the country surrounded by interstates. I’ve had two oil users for new. Had them past 150K miles. The oil usage never changed. At that time I was using Amsoil extended. My 4 Hyundais were flawless still have two. Two Hondas currently, Toyota Camry. Etc. I stay current with automotive news to steer away from problem vehicles. Having an olds diesel made very aware of trends. My brother in law against my advice bought a 2013 Tahoe. They were known to have problems. Uneven cylinder temperatures due to cylinder deactivation. It was to good of a deal to pass. He’s passing 160K with 7K oil changes. Using whatever oriley has on sale when he does an oil change. His Yukon just passed 300K with the same service schedule. He has a few of them under his belt. Our experiences are quite different. You may have just have bad luck. Or I’ve been lucky. I have 3 vehicles that are near or over 150. The newest is a 2016. I have no desire to go much past 200K miles on my trip vehicle. I go to the dealer once a year on each and to valvoline quick lube for the other. I’m not going to have a problem. That’s the odds I’ll play. My confidence is very high. My 51 years experience is the reason. 

[Grumpy Bear]

5 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

We both have different experiences. I’ve owned most of the brands. I live in a different part of the country surrounded by interstates. I’ve had two oil users for new. Had them past 150K miles. The oil usage never changed. At that time I was using Amsoil extended. My 4 Hyundais were flawless still have two. Two Hondas currently, Toyota Camry. Etc. I stay current with automotive news to steer away from problem vehicles. Having an olds diesel made very aware of trends. My brother in law against my advice bought a 2013 Tahoe. They were known to have problems. Uneven cylinder temperatures due to cylinder deactivation. It was to good of a deal to pass. He’s passing 160K with 7K oil changes. Using whatever oriley has on sale when he does an oil change. His Yukon just passed 300K with the same service schedule. He has a few of them under his belt. Our experiences are quite different. You may have just have bad luck. Or I’ve been lucky. I have 3 vehicles that are near or over 150. The newest is a 2016. I have no desire to go much past 200K miles on my trip vehicle. I go to the dealer once a year on each and to valvoline quick lube for the other. I’m not going to have a problem. That’s the odds I’ll play. My confidence is very high. My 51 years experience is the reason. 

 

As long as you are convinced.  Best wished. 

 

FYI, the next 20 years will school you in ways you won't see coming. 

 

This has been fun. Let's do it again sometime.