5w30 oil

[Black02Silverado]

4 hours ago, customboss said:

 

My question is, what mileage was on he Ford, what brand oil did he use and at what interval?  That is a nasty filter and to me he didn't do changes like he should have. Also what kind of driving conditions?  All stop and go with short distances?  Highway? So many variables. Wish he would have gave a little more information. 

[customboss]

4 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

My question is, what mileage was on he Ford, what brand oil did he use and at what interval?  That is a nasty filter and to me he didn't do changes like he should have. Also what kind of driving conditions?  All stop and go with short distances?  Highway? So many variables. Wish he would have gave a little more information. 

He answers those questions in the video. I forget it all after watching this AM,  I have dementia! 

Edited August 5 by customboss

[customboss]

6 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I vote you to guinea pig this product for say 250K and a teardown in a new truck  Acetone is a good cleaner, but not a good protector. 

 

It has real potential. Just needs a delivery. I'm getting too old, read not enough time left, to do many more of these. 

It’s NOT containing ACETONE for Yawehs  sake!!! Use oil analysis to guide vs teardown. It’s why we use oil analysis vs teardown! Jeebus must be rolling over in his RH throne ! 

Edited August 5 by customboss

[Grumpy Bear]

9, Why HTHS Viscosity Matters (lubrizol.com)2019

Topics: Passenger Cars, On-Highway Trucks

The drive to reduce emissions and increase fuel efficiency has led to significant changes in heavy-duty engine hardware design, including downsizing, down speeding and stop/start technology to name a few. With such changes in engine hardware design, engine lubricants are increasingly having to perform in high temperature high shear (HTHS) environments within the engine—notably in the camshaft, bearings as well as the piston rings and cylinder liners.

Today, HTHS viscosity—or specifically “low” HTHS viscosity—is a phrase fast becoming associated with increased fuel efficiency. The focus on HTHS viscosity is gaining momentum as it is regarded as the parameter of the viscosity classification that more accurately mimics the engine lubricants behavior in increasingly severe operating conditions.

HTHS dynamic viscosity is the current industry standard that best predicts fluid behavior in HTHS environments. It is designed to ensure engine lubricants maintain sufficient film strength to prevent excessive wear under engine operating conditions, while also allowing engine lubricants to have low enough viscosity to deliver fuel efficiency and emissions benefits. HTHS viscosity measures the temporary viscosity loss under these conditions:

The lower the measured number, the lower the HTHS viscosity of the oil and the higher the anticipated fuel efficiency benefits.

HTHS viscosity is measured in milliPascal.second (mPa.s) but is also commonly referred to in centipoise (cP).

Typically, heavy-duty diesel engine lubricants have had a minimum HTHS viscosity of 3.5 cP. Lower HTHS viscosity is being pursued by an increasing number of original equipment manufacturers (OEM) to move significantly below this long-established 3.5 cP HTHS limit in conjunction with modern engine hardware designs.

Lower HTHS viscosity engine lubricants are complex and require formulation changes over higher HTHS viscosity engine lubricants. The vital roles of the additive package, performance polymer and base oil mean they must work in harmony with each other, while maintaining durability and delivering improved fuel efficiency.

 

*************************************

 

Know what you don't see. Test results on these 'fuel efficient' oils published in a way that puts them in the light of the reference oil they claim to be an improvement on. Even this article does not address WEAR. Not in any meaningful quantitative way. But it does point out that HTHS MATTERS just as much today as it ever has. You can't 'claim' a thing into being true. 

[VicFirth]

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 SP

 19 BMW 440i

5,000 miles on the oil

 

2019 BMW 440i (B58), M1 ESP 5w-30 5000 OCI, 50k mi

 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, VicFirth said:

Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 SP

 19 BMW 440i

5,000 miles on the oil

 

2019 BMW 440i (B58), M1 ESP 5w-30 5000 OCI, 50k mi

 

 

VOA base on this chemistry is just over 6 units. The result is under half and no attending TAN. That would make it change time at these miles in my OPINION. What I would call,  "Using UOA's to FIND your mark". You don't like mine, pick another. It's just an opinion. 

Edited August 12 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

On 8/10/2024 at 7:58 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

9, Why HTHS Viscosity Matters (lubrizol.com)2019

Topics: Passenger Cars, On-Highway Trucks

The drive to reduce emissions and increase fuel efficiency has led to significant changes in heavy-duty engine hardware design, including downsizing, down speeding and stop/start technology to name a few. With such changes in engine hardware design, engine lubricants are increasingly having to perform in high temperature high shear (HTHS) environments within the engine—notably in the camshaft, bearings as well as the piston rings and cylinder liners.

Today, HTHS viscosity—or specifically “low” HTHS viscosity—is a phrase fast becoming associated with increased fuel efficiency. The focus on HTHS viscosity is gaining momentum as it is regarded as the parameter of the viscosity classification that more accurately mimics the engine lubricants behavior in increasingly severe operating conditions.

HTHS dynamic viscosity is the current industry standard that best predicts fluid behavior in HTHS environments. It is designed to ensure engine lubricants maintain sufficient film strength to prevent excessive wear under engine operating conditions, while also allowing engine lubricants to have low enough viscosity to deliver fuel efficiency and emissions benefits. HTHS viscosity measures the temporary viscosity loss under these conditions:

The lower the measured number, the lower the HTHS viscosity of the oil and the higher the anticipated fuel efficiency benefits.

HTHS viscosity is measured in milliPascal.second (mPa.s) but is also commonly referred to in centipoise (cP).

Typically, heavy-duty diesel engine lubricants have had a minimum HTHS viscosity of 3.5 cP. Lower HTHS viscosity is being pursued by an increasing number of original equipment manufacturers (OEM) to move significantly below this long-established 3.5 cP HTHS limit in conjunction with modern engine hardware designs.

Lower HTHS viscosity engine lubricants are complex and require formulation changes over higher HTHS viscosity engine lubricants. The vital roles of the additive package, performance polymer and base oil mean they must work in harmony with each other, while maintaining durability and delivering improved fuel efficiency.

 

*************************************

 

Know what you don't see. Test results on these 'fuel efficient' oils published in a way that puts them in the light of the reference oil they claim to be an improvement on. Even this article does not address WEAR. Not in any meaningful quantitative way. But it does point out that HTHS MATTERS just as much today as it ever has. You can't 'claim' a thing into being true. 

 

In green, there in is the rub. That minimum is defined by asperity height and hardness. Something that has not changed since WWII when they found out it can only be so smooth before it will not 'wet' and so hard before it becomes brittle. 

 

This isn't a tough read. The driver is fuel economy, and the wear argument is a dog and pony show. Pure smoke and mirrors. Even these new DLC ring coatings, while hard enough are not tough enough to go the distance and the bore prep it prohibitively expensive. So far is has been a failure tested in the lab of the consumer. We are in a phase where the industry is looking for an answer that needed to be given BEFORE it went into production. Smog pumps 2.0. 

Edited August 13 by Grumpy Bear

[VicFirth]

The virgin oxidation values for most of their oils is low 20's.  I keep seeing it creep up into the 50 range.  Amsoil does not do this.

 

Here is a 2012 Yaris with 10,600 miles on HPL 5w30.  Virgin oxidation is 23.  It's now 51.  Also, they dump so much magnesium and calcium in their oils that is where they get the high TBN.  But TBN doesn't matter much if your oil is oxidizing like that. However, the oil remains a 30 grade so is it a problem?

 

Here is 

 

Edited August 16 by VicFirth

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, VicFirth said:

I think HPL may not be that oxidation resistant.

 

You are watching oxidation thickening happen right before your eyes.

 

@customboss is going to fall out of his chair when he reads this next line. Release the Kraken! 

 

Nitration is a concern and has been.  Oxidation is also concern and has been. Is there an oil filter in this thing?  Where did the copper go? (Hint, test repeatability and sampling technique [contamination] ) 

This oil was toast before 5K miles. 

 

IMHO the public in general is education resistant. Look, there is what one may think the chemistry is capable of and then there are the conditions the oil was actually subject to. You may feel safe with a Kevlar vest but if the projectile is a Howitzer round and not a .22 short you are going to be disappointed. This is a good example of wear metals not telling the whole story. Wear and cleanliness are not the same thing. I'd love to see the entire power cylinder in this motor. Plate out happens on the cooldown. 

 

When you said AMOSIL does not do this, did you mean in THIS motor RECENTLY?  

 

 

I don't mean to be beating up on you Vic. It was just a teaching moment I could not let pass. I'm weak.... sorry. 

 

 

[VicFirth]

On 8/16/2024 at 10:16 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

You are watching oxidation thickening happen right before your eyes.

 

@customboss is going to fall out of his chair when he reads this next line. Release the Kraken! 

 

Nitration is a concern and has been.  Oxidation is also concern and has been. Is there an oil filter in this thing?  Where did the copper go? (Hint, test repeatability and sampling technique [contamination] ) 

This oil was toast before 5K miles. 

 

IMHO the public in general is education resistant. Look, there is what one may think the chemistry is capable of and then there are the conditions the oil was actually subject to. You may feel safe with a Kevlar vest but if the projectile is a Howitzer round and not a .22 short you are going to be disappointed. This is a good example of wear metals not telling the whole story. Wear and cleanliness are not the same thing. I'd love to see the entire power cylinder in this motor. Plate out happens on the cooldown. 

 

When you said AMOSIL does not do this, did you mean in THIS motor RECENTLY?  

 

 

I don't mean to be beating up on you Vic. It was just a teaching moment I could not let pass. I'm weak.... sorry. 

 

 

No I agree with you lol.  It is oxidizing fast.  Amsoil virgin and used oxidation values don't fluctuate like HPL.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18 by VicFirth

[VicFirth]

Also, what good is all the Mg and Ca they use if your base oil oxidizes?  

 

 

"A lot of folks misunderstand the logic for putting over-based metallic detergents in oil (the stuff that largely gives an oil its TBN & the bulk of its Ash). It has almost nothing to do with 'cleaning' or high sulphur fuels. The first 5 TBN is usually there for rust prevention as defined by the Ball Rust Test. This might get raised to about 8 TBN to neutralise the complex carboxylic acids that form when base oils oxidise as they get exposed to hot, reactive blow-by gas. Typically 8 TBN is way too much for oil in normal service but it would definitely all get used up in the severe industry oxidation tests like the Sequence IIIG.

There's no harm in buying oils with 10+ TBN but TBH, there's not a lot of benefit to be gained either. The fact is that modern base oils (Groups II/III/IV/V) are massively more resistant to oxidation than old fashioned Group Is. If they're not breaking down, then there's nothing for the detergent to neutralise, so any excess just sits in the oil, doing naff all, until it's time to throw the oil away."

"Unfortunately it isn’t a straightforward answer, because the “ideal” level of ash is also going to be dependent on valve geometry and materials. But yes, in the ballpark of 0.5% is where the industry is moving."

Edited August 16 by VicFirth

[AJMBLAZER]

With all you oil nerds yammering on I have to say I’ve been reading bottles a little closer. Surprised how many big name oils have variations out there that aren’t dexos certified. Probably going to follow Gangly’s lead and switch to 5w30 next change and the amount of big name oils that don’t have the features you guys have mentioned is a bit eye opening. 

[customboss]

5 hours ago, VicFirth said:

I think HPL may not be that oxidation resistant.  The virgin oxidation values for most of their oils is low 20's.  I keep seeing it creep up into the 50 range.  Amsoil does not do this.

 

Here is a 2012 Yaris with 10,600 miles on HPL 5w30.  Virgin oxidation is 23.  It's now 51.  Oil seems shot to me.  Also, they dump so much magnesium and calcium in their oils that is where they get the high TBN.  But TBN doesn't matter much if your oil is oxidizing like that. However, the oil remains a 30 grade so is it a problem?

 

Here is 

 

Can't fall out of my wheel chair because you said nothing meaningful really.  Where is the FTIR abs reading for oxidation in this data on the Yaris?  

Consider this yammering masses.  Some oxidation is actually cleaning NOT harmful.  If the viscosity is stable then most likely its not harmful.  What IS HARMFUL is the nitration.  Tune the engine whoever the owner is.  Will any of you cheapassees buy a good oil analysis on YOUR equipment here?  Quit pulling up unknown source data because it could be doctored. 

 

[customboss]

23 minutes ago, AJMBLAZER said:

With all you oil nerds yammering on I have to say I’ve been reading bottles a little closer. Surprised how many big name oils have variations out there that aren’t dexos certified. Probably going to follow Gangly’s lead and switch to 5w30 next change and the amount of big name oils that don’t have the features you guys have mentioned is a bit eye opening. 

"Why in the Hell can’t the Army do it if the Marines can; they are all the same kind of men, why can’t they be like Marines?"
—In a letter to HQMC, dated 12 Feb. 1918, concerning a inspection of Marines by Gen John J. “Black Jack” Pershing, CinC, AEF

 

Because USN SPEC OPS SWIMMERS taught them.......  

[VicFirth]

16 minutes ago, customboss said:

Can't fall out of my wheel chair because you said nothing meaningful really.  Where is the FTIR abs reading for oxidation in this data on the Yaris?  

Consider this yammering masses.  Some oxidation is actually cleaning NOT harmful.  If the viscosity is stable then most likely its not harmful.  What IS HARMFUL is the nitration.  Tune the engine whoever the owner is.  Will any of you cheapassees buy a good oil analysis on YOUR equipment here?  Quit pulling up unknown source data because it could be doctored. 

 

 

It is NOT doctored.  This is from a Toyota forum.  The virgin oxidation for this oil is 23.  HPL oxidation values tend to jump into the 40's and 50's.  I do not see this same pattern in other UOA with other brands.   

 

I do not use this lab, I use OAI. 

 

As far as this oil cleaning, we don't know.  Oil filter was cut open and no signs of any carbon material.  

Edited August 16 by VicFirth