5w30 oil

[Grumpy Bear]

It's right in front of you.

Look at it! 

 

 

If all you get from this chart is "use a high VI fluid" you need a 

 

See that line going up from 100C and over to the Viscosity? THAT viscosity is the value required to keep parts from touching other parts. It has nothing to do with the OEM suggested or required oil grade. Grade is NOT a viscosity, it's a fence around a viscosity. And it often isn't around the number your motor even needs. It's a number the OEM needs to meet internal goals. 

 

That point of intersection is the fulcrum of your teeter-totter. It represents a viscosity at a temperature, at a load, at a speed in a motor with new oil. (Hersey Number) THAT number which has the highest HTHS and the lowest CCS has the highest VI. 

 

This next point is the one I've been trying to hammer home for a very long time. 

 

THAT number.... the 100C viscosity......is NOT THE NUMBER PUBLISHED in the PDS for that product. In fact, that number is very hard to get but not that hard to understand, but rather is the number the OEM will call out by bounding it with an SAE oil Grade specification callout. 

 

THAT required by the motor number is after the lowest point of temporary shear and before density correction and is measured in centipoise or cP. And that number is roughly 10 cP at WHATEVER your bulk oil temperature may happen to be. NOT some 100 C propaganda value printed in marketing literature. Your motor cannot read . You can be . Your motor cannot. 

 

Now I said, 'temporary shear". That test is ASTM D6616. Find it in the example below: Thankfully it is listed in cP and not cSt and its value is 6.9 cP

 

 

On average base oil density at 100C is about 8.40 g/cm3 so to find the viscosity in cSt we divide 6.9 cP by 8.4 g/cm3 which is 8.2 cSt or the very top of the SAE 16 range or mid SAE 20 (J300 2015). What might a *W20 be under stress? 

 

It's 100 C viscosity is 10.91 cSt. Girls that's a 36.7% loss of viscosity and that is entirely VII polymer shear. It's 'advertised' shear stability is 9.4 cSt or a 13.8% loss. But again, the motor can't read. So, what is 'advertised' stability? That value obtained when the viscosity has recovered or more simply the low shear value after use at 100C. 

 

So... when you use a No-VII oil like HPL No-VII Euro 5W30 which contains zero VII polymer or PPD polymers and it shows a 100 C viscosity of 11.19 cSt it STAYS 11.19 cSt minus maybe 1 to 2 % over its lifetime instead of 36.7% under stress new! 

 

Now imagine what happens to a 0W20 chock full of VII and PPD. 

 

Not all *W30's are created equal. Which base oil. Which polymers, if any, and how much if used. Not called out in your beloved DEXOS specifications. Just an SAE Grade.  

 

Good fuel economy comes from the CCS end of the spec., good wear control from the HTHS end of the spec. That is what you should get from the first chart. AND your minimum requirement is based on Hersey, not the 100C. 

 

I wouldn't tow a Radio Flyer full of sand on 0W20. Actually, I wouldn't put it in a grocery getter V8 period. YMMV

 

[johnnyquick]

7 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

It's right in front of you.

Look at it! 

 

 

If all you get from this chart is "use a high VI fluid" you need a 

 

See that line going up from 100C and over to the Viscosity? THAT viscosity is the value required to keep parts from touching other parts. It has nothing to do with the OEM suggested or required oil grade. Grade is NOT a viscosity, it's a fence around a viscosity. And it often isn't around the number your motor even needs. It's a number the OEM needs to meet internal goals. 

 

That point of intersection is the fulcrum of your teeter-totter. It represents a viscosity at a temperature, at a load, at a speed in a motor with new oil. (Hersey Number) THAT number which has the highest HTHS and the lowest CCS has the highest VI. 

 

This next point is the one I've been trying to hammer home for a very long time. 

 

THAT number.... the 100C viscosity......is NOT THE NUMBER PUBLISHED in the PDS for that product. In fact, that number is very hard to get but not that hard to understand, but rather is the number the OEM will call out by bounding it with an SAE oil Grade specification callout. 

 

THAT required by the motor number is after the lowest point of temporary shear and before density correction and is measured in centipoise or cP. And that number is roughly 10 cP at WHATEVER your bulk oil temperature may happen to be. NOT some 100 C propaganda value printed in marketing literature. Your motor cannot read . You can be . Your motor cannot. 

 

Now I said, 'temporary shear". That test is ASTM D6616. Find it in the example below: Thankfully it is listed in cP and not cSt and its value is 6.9 cP

 

 

On average base oil density at 100C is about 8.40 g/cm3 so to find the viscosity in cSt we divide 6.9 cP by 8.4 g/cm3 which is 8.2 cSt or the very top of the SAE 16 range or mid SAE 20 (J300 2015). What might a *W20 be under stress? 

 

It's 100 C viscosity is 10.91 cSt. Girls that's a 36.7% loss of viscosity and that is entirely VII polymer shear. It's 'advertised' shear stability is 9.4 cSt or a 13.8% loss. But again, the motor can't read. So, what is 'advertised' stability? That value obtained when the viscosity has recovered or more simply the low shear value after use at 100C. 

 

So... when you use a No-VII oil like HPL No-VII Euro 5W30 which contains zero VII polymer or PPD polymers and it shows a 100 C viscosity of 11.19 cSt it STAYS 11.19 cSt minus maybe 1 to 2 % over its lifetime instead of 36.7% under stress new! 

 

Now imagine what happens to a 0W20 chock full of VII and PPD. 

 

Not all *W30's are created equal. Which base oil. Which polymers, if any, and how much if used. Not called out in your beloved DEXOS specifications. Just an SAE Grade.  

 

Good fuel economy comes from the CCS end of the spec., good wear control from the HTHS end of the spec. That is what you should get from the first chart. AND your minimum requirement is based on Hersey, not the 100C. 

 

I wouldn't tow a Radio Flyer full of sand on 0W20. Actually, I wouldn't put it in a grocery getter V8 period. YMMV

 

So, Grumpy what oil do you suggest for these 6.2 engines?

I looked at some Dexos 2 stuff ..............$20 plus per quart or just pick randomly off of the chart that the Dexos 2 link goes to.

I am getting screwed by GM right now on my 6.2 but would like to extend the life of it as long as possible at 49K now.

[PunchT37]

Depending where you are, I would run a good 5w30 or even a 10w30. Fu@k Dexos.  Then, see what happens. Probably good things.

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, johnnyquick said:

So, Grumpy what oil do you suggest for these 6.2 engines?

I looked at some Dexos 2 stuff ..............$20 plus per quart or just pick randomly off of the chart that the Dexos 2 link goes to.

I am getting screwed by GM right now on my 6.2 but would like to extend the life of it as long as possible at 49K now.

 

PM me. I have questions before I jump off a cliff. 

[Gangly]

If you are concerned with warranty, then run the factory suggested weight until warranty expires.  I would hate to have a known issue pop up with my vehicle, and have the factory deny the warranty based on the oil that I use, whether it played a role or not.  After the warranty expires, you can bypass all the marketing garbage, look at actual data, and run whatever weight you want. 

 

As of yesterday, I switched to a 5w-30 full synthetic on my 2020, 130k mile 5.3.  The engine has always ran smooth, and relatively quiet on startup, but I could IMMEDIATELY tell a difference on the first cold start with the 5w30 regarding cold engine clatter.  On the first cold startup after swapping to 5w30, the engine was instantly quiet with zero clatter.  It would usually take about 3-5 seconds for things to get quiet, not that the noises were ever loud.  That actually surprised me as I thought my cold start engine noises would last a little longer after switching to a heavier weight oil, but the 5W30 somehow made it quieter.  I'll be curious to see if there is a noise difference on startup when the weather drops into the 30's-40's this winter.

Edited July 29 by Gangly

[VicFirth]

Here is a new updated Euro 5w30 from HPL.  They also make a no VII Euro 5w30 too.  This is not the no VII version.  Like all the other HPL oils, they use POE and AN and I believe this series has PAO as the base.

 

This particular series also has less Mg than their regular PCMO line which has a huge amount of metallic additives.  They're using a ton of Mg and Ca in some of their blends.  Not sure if that's good for deposits though.  

 

The HT/HS of this oil is 3.597.

 

Edited July 30 by VicFirth

[VicFirth]

I think for moderate drain intervals of say 5k or so, Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 is tough to beat off the shelf.  Maybe Pennzoil Euro L 5w30 as well which uses a GTL base?  HT/HS of 3.5 and Porsche C30.  The HPL, Red Line and maybe Amsoil Euro equivalent may have more detergents as those brands generally up the treat rate.  More solvency too.   

 

 

Edited July 30 by VicFirth

[Grumpy Bear]

10 hours ago, VicFirth said:

I think for moderate drain intervals of say 5k or so, Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 is tough to beat off the shelf.  Maybe Pennzoil Euro L 5w30 as well which uses a GTL base?  HT/HS of 3.5 and Porsche C30.  The HPL, Red Line and maybe Amsoil Euro equivalent may have more detergents as those brands generally up the treat rate.  More solvency too.   

 

 

 

Given more thought. These 'detergents' don't clean like Dawn does dishes. They don't even eliminate deposit formation. They HINDER it. Ditto antioxidants. They don't eliminate oxidation, they HINDER it. The RATE they build only in part is determined by treat rate. 

 

Oil changes. Done before the concentration of 'nasty' gets above the saturation point of the chemistry. But if left long enough to leave deposits these detergents will not remove them. Solvency will...if there is enough and of the right kind. 

 

 

[VicFirth]

Great point.

 

Here are two VOA of Amsoil SS and HPL 5w30.  HPL uses POE/AN.  No one knows what Amsoil uses but their oxidation values are in the 50-60 range.  

 

A recent VOA of Amsoil 0w40 SS shows 479 of boron.  HPL uses a lot more mg. 

 

 

Edited July 30 by VicFirth

[customboss]

59 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Given more thought. These 'detergents' don't clean like Dawn does dishes.

Yeah they kinda do. Once again your bloviating starts with good intentions and it goes off the rails. Water based formula is very consistent with the effect of oil based additives. 
Surfactants and dispersants are EXACTLY what is chemically active  in Dawn and why it removes oil and oily deposits from pots pans and china like materials including NICKEL CHROME ALLOYED FERRITIC METALS YOU USE AS “SILVERWARE”. 
Dawn has a green dye ( looks blue ) and scent that are not active. 
 

Dawn incorporates two solvents that we normally would not use in engine oil but the base formula can engage that. 
 

[Grumpy Bear]

13 hours ago, VicFirth said:

Great point.

 

He who tags my post with laughing emojis seems to have other thoughts. I'm not reading his garbage. 

 

Let's try some LOGIC. Pick a dry oil.

 

That is, one that has zero polar base oils that will lead to an oxidation value over 20 Abs.

Not some pie in the sky bench oil no one has any access to but something one can get from Wallly World. 

I'm going to discount the Valvoline R&P for the purpose of this discussion because the question being asked is about the DETERGENTS in the oil not the oil itself. 

 

Ready?

 

Q: What OCI would I need to embrace to clean stuck rings packed with varnish, lacquers and carbonaceous deposits? Say, Castrol Edge for example. 

 

A:.....drum roll please....it won't, no matter how long or short the OCI is.

 

FACT is THAT oil type run to exhaustion put them there.  Detergents in oil don't clean, they hinder and you can tag my post forever custom-clown with your condescending little emoji and that truth will not change. 

 

Okay,

 

Q: What oil TYPE will clean them....given enough time?

 

A:, those with specific polar base types. Esters. Or proprietary chemistry base oils (V-R&P maybe) 

 

Let laughing clown say it isn't so. I dare him as he is the one who was part and party to the development of CUMMINS PRIEMIUM BLUE RESTORE and it did work in field trials on the CUMMINS ISX15 Oh, wait, here is the CUMMINS TSB

MC-10111660-9999.pdf (nhtsa.gov)  

 

Keep believing you can use a dry oil and run it into the ground without issues. You will get what you always have gotten. I don't care how cheap it is or how popular it is or how well marketed it is. It will not clean. 

 

But you do get to choose your time to failure and perhaps push it past the point of care. I'm not talking to this type of operator. Never have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31 by Grumpy Bear

[PunchT37]

Seems mopar owners realize this stuff too;

 

 

[customboss]

On 7/30/2024 at 3:17 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

He who tags my post with laughing emojis seems to have other thoughts. I'm not reading his garbage. 

 

Let's try some LOGIC. Pick a dry oil.

 

That is, one that has zero polar base oils that will lead to an oxidation value over 20 Abs.

Not some pie in the sky bench oil no one has any access to but something one can get from Wallly World. 

I'm going to discount the Valvoline R&P for the purpose of this discussion because the question being asked is about the DETERGENTS in the oil not the oil itself. 

 

Ready?

 

Q: What OCI would I need to embrace to clean stuck rings packed with varnish, lacquers and carbonaceous deposits? Say, Castrol Edge for example. 

 

A:.....drum roll please....it won't, no matter how long or short the OCI is.

 

FACT is THAT oil type run to exhaustion put them there.  Detergents in oil don't clean, they hinder and you can tag my post forever custom-clown with your condescending little emoji and that truth will not change. 

 

Okay,

 

Q: What oil TYPE will clean them....given enough time?

 

A:, those with specific polar base types. Esters. Or proprietary chemistry base oils (V-R&P maybe) 

 

Let laughing clown say it isn't so. I dare him as he is the one who was part and party to the development of CUMMINS PRIEMIUM BLUE RESTORE and it did work in field trials on the CUMMINS ISX15 Oh, wait, here is the CUMMINS TSB

MC-10111660-9999.pdf (nhtsa.gov)  

 

Keep believing you can use a dry oil and run it into the ground without issues. You will get what you always have gotten. I don't care how cheap it is or how popular it is or how well marketed it is. It will not clean. 

 

But you do get to choose your time to failure and perhaps push it past the point of care. I'm not talking to this type of operator. Never have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazine/30_5/secondary-polyol-ester-technology-a-novel-base-oil-family-for-developing-bio-lubricants/

 

Base Stocks

Secondary Polyol Ester Technology: A Novel Base Oil Family for Developing Bio-Lubricants

Contributor - April 30, 2024

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© WillSelarep

The past century has been marked by a continuous stream of synthetic base oil innovations and the growth in adoption of new synthetic lubricants. These important advances in lubrication technology have provided numerous benefits, such as greater energy efficiency in machinery, enhanced safety to the end-user and consumer through innovations like fire-resistant fluids and food processing lubricants, and bio-lubricants that are kinder to our environment.  

The need for innovation in lubrication continues as the manufacturing sector experiences the transformation termed “Industry 4.0,” or the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Advances in robotics, human machine interaction, advanced analytics, additive manufacturing such as 3-D printing, and artificial intelligence are creating demand for new and novel lubricants. Furthermore, there continues to be a significant focus on choosing lubricants that are safer to use and aligned with ever tighter environmental regulations. For example, there is a growing demand for lubricants that are designed from oleochemical versus petrochemical feedstocks.  

Figure 1. Generic Structure of SPE™

To counter the tribology challenges that the lubricant industry faces today, VBASE Oil Company has dedicated significant research in designing and evaluating a new family of high-performance sustainable base stocks. These oxygen-rich “hybrid” base oils provide many of the environmental functionalities and benefits of classical synthetic esters but also offer many of the functional benefits of polyalkylene glycols.  

Chemistry of SPE Base Oils  

Secondary Polyol Ester (SPE) base oils have been designed as high-performance sustainable base oils by chemically linking building blocks that are biodegradable to create a family of unique base oils that have a high bio-carbon content and are readily biodegradable. The initial research focused on the commercialization of base oils in the viscosity range ISO 32-100. More recently, research has shown that higher viscosity grades (ISO 100-460) also offer some significant performance benefits, which led VBASE Oil Company to extend the range of SPE products. The commercialization of these higher-viscosity base stocks is expected in the second quarter of 2024. 

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Novel SPE base oils are referred to as Secondary Polyol Ester base oils because the esterification occurs on secondary hydroxyls of a polyol and links them with fatty acids, preferably from oleochemical feedstocks. Their chemistry comprises a high density of both ester bonds and ether bonds. These highly polar molecules show performance differentiation versus many classical synthetic esters. Their oxygen-rich backbone offers functionality such as in-built detergency, low friction and deposit control.  

The unique structure also contributes to a higher viscosity index than many other primary polyol esters of similar viscosities. The inclusion of secondary ester bonds in SPE base oils also slows hydrolysis compared to esters containing primary ester bonds. Furthermore, alkyl branches along the polyol backbone ensure the base oils offer good low-temperature performance (see Table 1). 

Table 1. Performance Features of Saturated SPE™ Base Oils (Typical Values)

Source: VBASE Oil Co.

Feature	VBASE 32S	VBASE 46S	VBASE 68S	VBASE 100CS	VBASE 220CS	VBASE 460CS
Kin. viscosity at 40˚C, mm2/sec	29.5	44.2	69.4	99.5	231	445
Kin. viscosity at 100˚C, mm2/sec	6.13	8.61	12.1	16.9	35	62
Viscosity index	162	177	173	185	200	213
Pour point, ˚C	-51	-42	-33	-18	-18	-21
Density at 40˚C, g/cm3	0.97	0.96	0.95	0.97	0.97	0.98
Aniline point, ˚C, ASTM D611	<-10	<-10	<-10	<-10	<-10	<-10
Air release, mins, ASTM D3427	<1	2	n/d	3.5	8.5	16
Hydrolytic stability, ASTM D2619 Acid number change, mgKOH/g	0.28	0.13	0.2	0.46	n/d	n/d
Biodegradation, %, OECD 301B	>80	>80	>80	>80	>80	>80
Bio-carbon, %, ASTM D6866	62.5	50	59	57	54	54
EU Ecolabel LuSC List	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes
NSF HX-1	yes	yes	yes	Under Review	Under Review	Under Review

Key Features for Applications 

Saturated SPE Base Oils for Industrial Applications. Lubricants used in applications such as mobile hydraulics, gas turbines, compressors and gears are increasingly challenged with managing thermal stresses. Trends in equipment design show more compact systems with tighter filtration, smaller fluid reservoirs and higher pressures. Although petroleum oils are often used, it is common for these to degrade and form deposits that can cause varnish in equipment, resulting in poor fluid flow, blocked filters and ultimately unreliable equipment operation. Moreover, compact systems need to release air rapidly without foaming, and some original equipment manufacturers define low air release times in their specifications.  

Saturated SPE base oils exhibit excellent oxidation stability and in-built detergency. When formulated with conventional free radical scavenger antioxidants, their stability is further enhanced. Figure 2 illustrates the response of VBASE 32S to four antioxidants (two aminic and two phenolic) at treat levels of 1% in thin-film Differential Scanning Calorimetry (DSC) experiments and compares their performance to trimethylolpropane trioleate (TMPTO). 

Figure 2. Oxidation Onset Temperature (OT) Using DSC

Source: VBASE Oil Co.

DSC is also a valuable method for evaluating deposit control behavior. Figure 3 illustrates a series of virgin base oils that were exposed to a steady increase in temperature from 20˚C to 400˚C in an air atmosphere. After the test was complete, the residue remaining was measured. The SPE base oils exhibit significantly better deposit control compared to two hydrocarbon base oils and an alternative synthetic ester. 

Figure 3. DSC Deposit Control Performance of Base Oils

Source: VBASE Oil Co.

The high polarity of SPE base oils (measured through their low aniline points) can help formulators of synthetic lubricants to mitigate varnish formation under conditions where thermal stresses are high, as thermal breakdown products lead to low deposit formation. Furthermore, if formulators prefer to use a petroleum base oil as their primary base oil, SPE fluids can also be used as a formulation component to provide increased detergency functionality. As the lubricant ages due to thermal stresses, any oxidation byproducts of hydrocarbon oils are solubilized in the polar SPE base oils, helping  to maintain equipment cleanliness and minimizing the risk of equipment unreliability. Interestingly, saturated SPE base oils such as VBASE 32S and 46S also offer surprisingly low air release times, which can minimize the risk of cavitation and thermal events in, for example, hydraulic and gas turbine fluids.  

New higher-viscosity SPE grades such as VBASE 100CS, 220CS and 460CS offer many of the same features as lower-viscosity grades and are recommended for use as primary base oils for formulating lubricants for heavy-duty equipment, such as bearing, gear and calender lubricants.  

Alternatively, SPE fluids are also recommended as a co-base oil in polyalphaolefin (PAO) wind turbine lubricant formulations. Formulations of the latter have used synthetic adipate esters as co-base oils, but these are known to hydrolyze, particularly in off-shore wind turbines where water ingress into the lubricant is more prevalent. SPE technology may offer an alternative option.  

SPE Technology for Fire-Resistant Fluids. SPE base oils offer formulators a new technology for developing fire resistant fluids. Polyol esters have been successfully used for many years in hydraulic fluids (HF-DU) and often these are derived from base fluids such as TMPTO. Oxygen-rich SPE base oils (such as VBASE 46U and 68U) offer an alternative. They have inherent low heats of combustion, low volatilities and high fire points (see Table 2). Coupled with the features described above—including their in-built detergency and hydrolytic stability—they offer a unique option for developing fire-resistant fluids that are safe and sustainable. 

Table 2. Typical Fire Resistance Performance Parameters

*For an ISO 46 base oil; Source: VBASE Oil Co.

Feature	ASTM	Petroleum Base Oils*	VBASE 46U	VBASE 68U
Kin. viscosity at 40˚C, mm2/sec	ASTM D445	46	53.6	67.0
Kin. viscosity at 100˚C, mm2/sec	ASTM D445	7.0	10.7	13.0
Viscosity index	ASTM D2270	110	196	198
Pour point, ˚C	ASTM D97	-15	-24	-39
Density at 40˚C, g/cm3	ASTM D4052	0.85	0.97	0.95
Fire point, ˚C	ASTM D92	230-250	324	322
Auto-ignition temperature, ˚C	ASTM E659	300	399	408
Heat of combustion (MJ/kg)	ASTM D240	43-44	39.4	34.0
Noack volatility, % weight loss	ASTM D5800	5-9	0.8	1.0

Factory Mutual Approval Standard 6930 assesses fluids for their fire-resistance performance using the Spray Flammability Parameter (SFP). This can be calculated as follows:  

SFP (normalized) = 11.02 × 10⁶ × Q_ch / (d.q_cr.m_f)

Q_ch = chemical heat release rate (kW)

q_cr = critical heat flux (kW/m²)
d = density of the fluid (kg/m³)
m_f = fluid mass flow rate (g/s)

The relationship between critical heat flux and fire point (T_f) is as follows:

qcr = Tf⁴.α.σ and where

α = surface absorptivity

σ = Stefan Boltzmann constant

The SFP equation shows that a fluid’s fire point, heat of combustion and density are very important parameters in achieving low SFP values.  An industrial fluid with an SFP of 5 x 10⁴ or less qualifies as FM Approved. Since SPE base oils have lower heats of combustion, higher densities and higher fire points than petroleum oils—and most other synthetics—it is possible to design fluids that are significantly safer than petroleum oils and meet the FM Approval standard. 

Environmentally Acceptable Lubricants. Synthetic and natural esters are a popular choice for formulating bio-lubricants. Many esters are readily biodegradable, and some are derived from oleochemical feedstocks. Each has its own benefits and performance limitations. Natural esters are often used when thermal stresses in equipment are low, because higher operating temperatures can rapidly result in oxidation of the lubricant and a significant increase in its viscosity, while subzero temperatures can induce gelling in extreme cases. Saturated synthetic esters are preferred when thermal stresses are high or when the lubricant is exposed to very low temperatures. Their hydrolytic stability remains a challenge when they are exposed to wet environments. This includes use in equipment operated near or in waterways. Applicable fluids in this application include hydraulic fluids, stern tube lubricants and wind turbine oils.  

In laboratory experiments, the hydrolytic stability of SPE base oils is good and offers an alternative option (see Table 1). Moreover, the saturated SPE base oils have good oxidation stability and low-temperature properties coupled with excellent environmental profiles. These have high bio-carbon content and have tested as readily biodegradable. SPE base oils are also listed on the EU Ecolabel LuSC list for formulating environmentally acceptable lubricants and are certified USDA BioPreferred. In addition, lower-viscosity grades are NSF-HX1 accredited, making them an option for formulating food-grade lubricants. The new higher-viscosity complex grades are currently under review by NSF. 

To demonstrate performance in equipment, VBASE Oil Company developed a formulated hydro-turbine oil containing an SPE base oil as part of a Department of Energy (DoE) program.  The Global Center of Excellence for GE Hydro Solutions in Switzerland successfully verified its performance on a combined thrust guide bearing test rig. The fluid performed well in all operating conditions, including high-load and low-speed operation (mixed friction regime). There was no damage to the bearing pad surface even after a high-load (13Mpa) crash test. The product is now undergoing trials under real service conditions in equipment at the Porjus Hydroelectric Power Station in Sweden. The Porjus Hydroelectric Power Station is Europe’s preeminent hydropower research and development facility operated by Porjus Hydropower Centre Foundation, and is a joint collaboration between Andritz, GE Renewable Energy and Vattenfall.  

Summary 

The unique chemistry of SPE base oils provides some additional performance functionalities that conventional synthetic esters may not offer, all while providing excellent environmental performance. These oxygen-rich structures—with in-built detergency, good hydrolytic stability and oxidation stability—provide formulators with a new sustainable base oil choice. This new patented platform chemistry—with a vast number of options for designing new base oils or additives—offers a promising solution to solving some of today’s most pressing lubrication and formulation challenges.  

Related Topics

Base Stocks    Esters    Non-conventional Base Stocks    Synthetic    

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Edited August 1 by customboss
open source for 2ndary polyol ester for develop of bio lubes

[customboss]

On 7/30/2024 at 3:17 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

He who tags my post with laughing emojis seems to have other thoughts. I'm not reading his garbage. 

 

Let's try some LOGIC. Pick a dry oil.

 

That is, one that has zero polar base oils that will lead to an oxidation value over 20 Abs.

Not some pie in the sky bench oil no one has any access to but something one can get from Wallly World. 

I'm going to discount the Valvoline R&P for the purpose of this discussion because the question being asked is about the DETERGENTS in the oil not the oil itself. 

 

Ready?

 

Q: What OCI would I need to embrace to clean stuck rings packed with varnish, lacquers and carbonaceous deposits? Say, Castrol Edge for example. 

 

A:.....drum roll please....it won't, no matter how long or short the OCI is.

 

FACT is THAT oil type run to exhaustion put them there.  Detergents in oil don't clean, they hinder and you can tag my post forever custom-clown with your condescending little emoji and that truth will not change. 

 

Okay,

 

Q: What oil TYPE will clean them....given enough time?

 

A:, those with specific polar base types. Esters. Or proprietary chemistry base oils (V-R&P maybe) 

 

Let laughing clown say it isn't so. I dare him as he is the one who was part and party to the development of CUMMINS PRIEMIUM BLUE RESTORE and it did work in field trials on the CUMMINS ISX15 Oh, wait, here is the CUMMINS TSB

MC-10111660-9999.pdf (nhtsa.gov)  

 

Keep believing you can use a dry oil and run it into the ground without issues. You will get what you always have gotten. I don't care how cheap it is or how popular it is or how well marketed it is. It will not clean. 

 

But you do get to choose your time to failure and perhaps push it past the point of care. I'm not talking to this type of operator. Never have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cummins ISX  “normal drain intervals” are 15,000 - 30,000 miles plus depending on application. 
Your definition of “ Dry” oils is a FIRST for anyone who has actually formulated engine lubricants and gotten paid to do so. 

Sorry to trigger you with  laughing emoji oh wise internet warrior. 
 

That TSB is based on cost and proving effect more than a warning about continued use would cause any damage. Its focus is that if the engine is damaged to begin with RESTORE will clean engine but not magically replace metallurgy. 
 

OK folks Grumpy has outed me as a professional and shared data I shared with him in confidence when he was a PAYING customer. So who gonna trust him the learning customer or the SOURCE OF WHAT HE MISCONSTRUES HERE or a professional who is retired. 
 

 

 

Edited August 1 by customboss
Aligned sentence

[Black02Silverado]

3 hours ago, customboss said:

pages.pdf 2.08 MB · 0 downloads

 

https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazine-issues/30_5/?page=21

I need to be a subscriber.  It wouldn't let me read the article otherwise.