5w30 oil

[VicFirth]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Some of us, (ME) use unlicensed oils all the time base on the SCIENCE and not the bureaucracy. 

 

 

Same.  I'm not playing by their rules.  Rebel LOL. 

 

 

[customboss]

31 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Same.  I'm not playing by their rules.  Rebel LOL. 

 

 

After an in-depth oil analysis of a particular application I never recommended a product for any reason other that its chemistry or results. Chemistry matters not brand. Delineating chemistry means breaking the ignorance of the consumer and breaching the brand bull poop. 

Edited September 24 by customboss
Cognitive decline spelling and typing

[VicFirth]

43 minutes ago, customboss said:

After an in-depth oil analysis of a particular application I never recommended a product for any reason other that its chemistry or results. Chemistry matters not brand. Delineating chemistry means breaking the ignorance of the consumer and breaching the brand bull poop. 

I agree.  I actually favor specifications and don't always use boutique brands.  I'm selective about what boutique brands I use.  Without certification, it comes down to trust.  Without it we'd have a Max Max market.  But I'm currently using Amsoil SS because it works.  

 

Edited September 24 by VicFirth

[customboss]

1 minute ago, VicFirth said:

I agree.  I actually favor specifications.  Without it we'd have a MaxMax market.  

We need baseline standards agreed but one industry has dominated lubricants development production and marketing. American Petroleum ! The additives and base stocks that work better aren’t always petroleum based! 

[Black02Silverado]

3 hours ago, customboss said:

We need baseline standards agreed but one industry has dominated lubricants development production and marketing. American Petroleum ! The additives and base stocks that work better aren’t always petroleum based! 

Yes, just like RLI.

[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, customboss said:

We need baseline standards agreed but one industry has dominated lubricants development production and marketing. American Petroleum ! The additives and base stocks that work better aren’t always petroleum based! 

 

There's that 'better' word again.  Hanging in air absent a reference to...........?

 

Maybe I speak a different dialect of English. Better is what IS, before good. Marketing has it backward. 

 

To a dying man a glass of cold water is GOOD. (Highly desirable) but for how long will that glass of water support his life? So, "good" is referenced to time. In our world of lubrication that is also true. Group II oil absent any additives is a satisfactory lubricant if of sufficient viscosity naturally. Then the question is 'for how long'? 

 

Most of the time when marketing says, "better" it means under whatever underlying conditions they may or may not be referencing. BETTER oxidation resistance references TIME of usefulness not its ability to form a film of minimum thickness required for the load and speed....and so on. That doesn't say it is a better lubricant. It just last longer before it isn't. 

 

Every other thing done to oil is in support of VISCOSITY. 

 

WORK BETTER has a goal in mind. The trouble is in ascertaining what marketings REAL goal is. 

[Grumpy Bear]

Neo Synthetics 5W30, 5W40 & 15W50

 

What ya got on them @VicFirth

 

Add that to AMSOIL, Red Line, MTP30K, Torco and Motul

[Grumpy Bear]

@customboss, no need for confusion. You of all people are aware that this is a dynamic situation that everyone tries to see as a static moment. Lots of moving parts that must be connected. Separating out a single point, a marketing trick, does not paint a complete picture. And you also surely understand the difficulty of explaining that dynamic.

 

What I see clearly in mind, words sometimes can't capture. 

 

Try to explain to someone the nature of a rod bearings travels over time. How rotation reverses and what effect that has on the hydrodynamic wedge at the point of reversal. How the load at any given point along its arc effects the Hersey number. Make them understand a load plot and how GM defined and plotted that data stream during the development of the Gen 1 SBC. Even changing the forced lubrication point of entry based on that data.  

 

Get them to understand the value of time in a wear study and how accelerated testing does not even come close to the reality of Joe Average's motors life cycle. And yet, is still useful. How personal observation over decades does not lead one to the truth in the absolute only to a better/worse conclusion that we will not live long enough to fully explore. They can't do it in a lab but some a certain that a lifetime of experience is absolute. 

 

Ring tension hysteresis on film thickness at the reversal points and how those two points differ. Or how the oil temperature in the pan is not the point temperature anywhere in the motor other than the pan and its value is not the average nor even the median, just it's dynamic thermal equilibrium. 

 

What we can say is what is directionally correct but without the certainty of the acceleration of gravity.  

 

So, we chose points of discussion.  Stare so closely at the eye, that we can't tell if it is the eye of a human or a horse. We don't even share points of reference in these discussions. 

 

One in concerned with wear mitigation and cleanliness and another's concern is warranty and fuel economy. 

 

A dog chasing its tail. 

[customboss]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

@customboss, no need for confusion. You of all people are aware that this is a dynamic situation that everyone tries to see as a static moment. Lots of moving parts that must be connected. Separating out a single point, a marketing trick, does not paint a complete picture. And you also surely understand the difficulty of explaining that dynamic.

 

What I see clearly in mind, words sometimes can't capture. 

 

Try to explain to someone the nature of a rod bearings travels over time. How rotation reverses and what effect that has on the hydrodynamic wedge at the point of reversal. How the load at any given point along its arc effects the Hersey number. Make them understand a load plot and how GM defined and plotted that data stream during the development of the Gen 1 SBC. Even changing the forced lubrication point of entry based on that data.  

 

Get them to understand the value of time in a wear study and how accelerated testing does not even come close to the reality of Joe Average's motors life cycle. And yet, is still useful. How personal observation over decades does not lead one to the truth in the absolute only to a better/worse conclusion that we will not live long enough to fully explore. They can't do it in a lab but some a certain that a lifetime of experience is absolute. 

 

Ring tension hysteresis on film thickness at the reversal points and how those two points differ. Or how the oil temperature in the pan is not the point temperature anywhere in the motor other than the pan and its value is not the average nor even the median, just it's dynamic thermal equilibrium. 

 

What we can say is what is directionally correct but without the certainty of the acceleration of gravity.  

 

So, we chose points of discussion.  Stare so closely at the eye, that we can't tell if it is the eye of a human or a horse. We don't even share points of reference in these discussions. 

 

One in concerned with wear mitigation and cleanliness and another's concern is warranty and fuel economy. 

 

A dog chasing its tail. 

Most of that testing is done but it’s company owned. I’m still going through years of files back to my days in the USN and the fortunate case of being mentored by one of the great chemists of any company then. 

[customboss]

@Grumpy Bear if you’d had the kind and patient mentoring I did in 1978 and on at Chevron or whoever you were working for then you’d be making videos without goofy glasses.  

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, customboss said:

Most of that testing is done but it’s company owned. I’m still going through years of files back to my days in the USN and the fortunate case of being mentored by one of the great chemists of any company then. 

 

We have a silent member on this list that was a design engineer for Hyundai and Toyota that pokes me once in a while on another list. We have resources. Fools keep them from speaking. 

 

1 hour ago, customboss said:

@Grumpy Bear if you’d had the kind and patient mentoring I did in 1978 and on at Chevron or whoever you were working for then you’d be making videos without goofy glasses.  

 

Awe, you don't think Lake is cute in those glasses? Mine look like his, don't you think? 

 

Limelite is not my light. I accumulated years of "Intellectual Property" and gave it away to a fella that simply asked me for it. He started his business with it. Is doing quite well with it. Although I haven't talked to Tom in some years. Anyway, discussion boards are about as much sun light as I can stand.  I burn easy. 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

We have a silent member on this list that was a design engineer for Hyundai and Toyota that pokes me once in a while on another list. We have resources. Fools keep them from speaking. 

 

 

Awe, you don't think Lake is cute in those glasses? Mine look like his, don't you think? 

 

Limelite is not my light. I accumulated years of "Intellectual Property" and gave it away to a fella that simply asked me for it. He started his business with it. Is doing quite well with it. Although I haven't talked to Tom in some years. Anyway, discussion boards are about as much sun light as I can stand.  I burn easy. 

If he would use a comprehensive test series instead of looking at limited FTIR and ICP only it would mean more but ALAS the consumer could care less as long as the video is cool.  Like the young chemists and engineers at my last employer who made PRETTY PLEASE cartoonish power point presentations on big screens with terrible underlying DATA!  

Edited September 25 by customboss

[Grumpy Bear]

 

[customboss]

11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

LOW  or HIGH  viscosity IS NOT THE problem.

 

Machines especially engines need APPROPRIATE viscosity. 

 

Also teaching consumers about base oils and VII is fine but it shows us nothing in an actual engine with USED oil. Oil with dirt, carbon, no polar fuels additives and actual fuel. 

[customboss]

https://www.lubesngreases.com/lubereport-emea/5_10/basf-alkylethanolamines-in-antwerp/