5w30 oil

Grumpy Bear · August 28

17 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

12k on oil.

What is wrong with these people?

AJMBLAZER · August 28

“But I’m not at 0% yet!”

customboss · August 28

26 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

12k on oil. 50k on 5.7L engine.

Yikes @ 50K a 5.7 should not be sloughing off all this wear. Nor throwing that much NOx into the oil. This baby has got serious issues. Oil

brand NOR FREQUENCY of change will not help.

VicFirth · August 28

The Al is part of the HPL additive package FWIW.

OnTheReel · August 28

14 hours ago, VicFirth said:

This caught my attention. HPL Supercar 0w20 in a HEMI. About 12k miles. Wear metals were fine.

Virgin oxidation for this oil is stated to be 23 according to what I have seen. It's now 46. So it went up 23. However the AN is very low and BN high.

Virgin oxidation may be higher (or it may not). I just know I ran the HPL Super Car 5w40 and oxidation value was 45 after less than 3,000 miles.

IMO…This guy needs to get off the 0w20 and back on a reasonable interval. His is a stupid game to play on an MDS motor.

VicFirth · August 28

HEMI engines tend to wear on the higher side. Al is part of the additive package (starts at 18), Cu is typical. While oxidation is up, the oil is still very alkaline. Acid levels are low so corrosive wear should be non-existent. I left out end viscosity which showed as 9.8 cSt (30 grade).

Edited August 28 by VicFirth

VicFirth · August 28

8 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

Virgin oxidation may be higher (or it may not). I just know I ran the HPL Super Car 5w40 and oxidation value was 45 after less than 3,000 miles.

IMO…This guy needs to get off the 0w20 and back on a reasonable interval. His is a stupid game to play on an MDS motor.

Most of the Super Car VOA show virgin oxidation of 23.

I can't tell if this is just normal for the oil, or HPL has oxidation issues.

Grumpy Bear · August 30

On 8/28/2024 at 8:33 AM, customboss said:

Oil brand NOR FREQUENCY of change will not help.

If there is a real issue with the motor nothing lubrication will help. Poor heat treat, defect in machining or specification or so forth and so on. On that we can and must agree.

That does not seem to be the case with the Chrysler Hemi. Specifically, the Hell Cat. They are just shedders. Bore preparation, ring choice, cam material detail, who knows. Even then, brand won't help. Viscosity isn't a brand. Keeping it is often a choice of the blender. In which case, brand may matter and OCI may matter. Enough visocisty is a matter of choice.

Just stating the obvious.

customboss · August 30

8 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

If there is a real issue with the motor nothing lubrication will help. Poor heat treat, defect in machining or specification or so forth and so on. On that we can and must agree.

That does not seem to be the case with the Chrysler Hemi. Specifically, the Hell Cat. They are just shedders. Bore preparation, ring choice, cam material detail, who knows. Even then, brand won't help. Viscosity isn't a brand. Keeping it is often a choice of the blender. In which case, brand may matter and OCI may matter. Enough visocisty is a matter of choice.

Just stating the obvious.

Indeed !

customboss · August 30

8 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

If there is a real issue with the motor nothing lubrication will help. Poor heat treat, defect in machining or specification or so forth and so on. On that we can and must agree.

That does not seem to be the case with the Chrysler Hemi. Specifically, the Hell Cat. They are just shedders. Bore preparation, ring choice, cam material detail, who knows. Even then, brand won't help. Viscosity isn't a brand. Keeping it is often a choice of the blender. In which case, brand may matter and OCI may matter. Enough visocisty is a matter of choice.

Just stating the obvious.

Well stated.

Grumpy Bear · August 30

Here ya go @VicFirth

Shear Thinning and Hydrodynamic Friction of Viscosity Modifier-Containing Oils. Part I: Shear Thinning Behaviour | Tribology Letters (springer.com)

Shear Thinning and Hydrodynamic Friction of Viscosity Modifier-Containing Oils. Part II: Impact of Shear Thinning on Journal Bearing Friction | Tribology Letters (springer.com)

That is a truckload of information to sift through. Look for 'relationships' more than 'specifics'.

An easy one. VM's shear down and do suffer permanent loss. The reason each test point was conducted with a "fresh" sample. DI's suffer shear down and you will hear people say that even VII free oil's suffer shear. What you don't hear them say is that while true it is to the hundredths place cP. Insignificant. That sir is marketing at its best. Marketing isn't always selling a product. Sometimes it's selling an idea that sells the product. Sometimes it's selling notoriety, prestige or power or position in a community. :crackup:

Note the Shear Stability Index measures the lack of recovery from temporary loss. If that number is zero it does not mean that it did not lose viscosity under shear, only that the loss was not permanent. Motor doesn't care. If viscosity drops low enough to lose the minimum thickness required for those circumstances, it will allow wear.

In the abstracts you will find MOTIVATION. Fuel economy is that motivation. The fact that it can be hidden in a PDS that's misleading to an uneducated public is also marketing.

It's a hot mess.

customboss · August 30

0w35 ( listed as 10w30) PB RESTORE run in a carboned up 2.0L FORD DI 4 turbo cleaned it well. @VicFirth checkout the oxidation value compare to other oils used in testing. es and

customboss · August 30

Grumpy and a few others I am really losing my science so check this out before I lose it.

file:///media/fuse/drivefs-d11db967b82af1bb5bfe474b2bac9d81/root/VOA%20&%20Reference%20&%20Labs:contacts/NOXIDANT%20fuel%20additive%20FORD%20PAG%20study%20%20/FORD%20PAG%20tests%20%201234442.html#

customboss · August 30

https://koehlerinstrument.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Gasoline-Additives-Where-Are-They-Going-Next.pdf

VicFirth · August 30

1 hour ago, customboss said:

0w35 ( listed as 10w30) PB RESTORE run in a carboned up 2.0L FORD DI 4 turbo cleaned it well. @VicFirth checkout the oxidation value compare to other oils used in testing. es and

I saw a VOA of this oil and the virgin oxidation value I believe was 110. Looks really good. Only Red Line has oxidation values that high. Their 0w40 has a oxidation value of 129.

That POE though can compete with AW additives so too much is no good. But clearly Valvoline and Red Line figured that out.

The highest virgin oxidation values I've seen are:

Red Line - 90-129

Amsoil - 62

Rest fall in the 30 range.

HPL is 23 but I was told they're using more group V than Amsoil. Tricky part is HPL uses AN base oils which won't show a spike in oxidation values. So that 23 is likely from POE or diester. Another individual claimed it was a diester they're using. I have no confirmation either way.