You can shear a sheep many times…

OnTheReel · July 18, 2023

…but you can only skin them once. Good to see dealers finally ran out of dumb people to pay $5,000 markup on a Chevy Equinox financed at 8%. EVs are no longer the hot commodity they hoped for either.

https://jalopnik.com/dealers-now-have-nearly-two-million-new-cars-sitting-on-1850647358

KARNUT · July 18, 2023

2 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

…but you can only skin them once. Good to see dealers finally ran out of dumb people to pay $5,000 markup on a Chevy Equinox financed at 8%. EVs are no longer the hot commodity they hoped for either.

https://jalopnik.com/dealers-now-have-nearly-two-million-new-cars-sitting-on-1850647358

The show I listen to says EVs are going over 90 days. Looks like prices are going to come down. Probably more government rebates. I’ve bought oddball stuff before. After all my first car was an RX3. I’m not going to say never to electric. Not there yet.

OnTheReel · July 18, 2023

I won’t rule out EV completely but I have no interest in one any time soon, maybe never. I will however absolutely say “never” to all the dealers I called last year looking to buy an SUV for my wife without markup. Including one I used to have a good relationship with for a decade. Their arrogance was unbelievable and they are finally getting theirs just like I knew they would. Unfortunately we weren’t in a position to wait until now to buy, but I bet I would have had much better luck.

Grumpy Bear · July 19, 2023

16 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

I won’t rule out EV completely but I have no interest in one any time soon, maybe never. I will however absolutely say “never” to all the dealers I called last year looking to buy an SUV for my wife without markup. Including one I used to have a good relationship with for a decade. Their arrogance was unbelievable and they are finally getting theirs just like I knew they would. Unfortunately we weren’t in a position to wait until now to buy, but I bet I would have had much better luck.

The easiest sheep to skin is the one that hands you the knife. Lot's of people jumped on that gut wagon. But sometimes brother it's like taking a whiz. You just can't wait for the cleanest bathroom. :crackup: Sorry that happened to you.

I've noticed a LOT of used car lots drying up and blowing away in our area. Haven't moved a clapped-out rust bucket in months. They loaded up on cars/trucks the used to go to the scrapper and got caught holding the bag. Dealerships got in waist deep in that market to fill space paying crazy for better used. I had been offered thousands more than I paid for Pepper with 150K miles on the clock. But you have to buy that market as well unless you're neck deep in garage cars. I got offered 10K more by the most aggressive 'on paper' in trade for a new one marked up 25K. :idiot: Nothing they have now new is better than what I have now pushing 170K.

OnTheReel · July 19, 2023

They love doing that trick of just moving money around to give the illusion of a good deal. What they eat on the trade gets tacked on elsewhere. Either on the new vehicle price or in the finance office.

Interesting business model in general though. Make all the money you’re ever gonna make off a customer in one sale because they will never come back. Can say that for both dealers and the automakers. Wouldn’t think that’s sustainable…

For what it’s worth we wound up buying from Carmax. They used to be on the expensive side, but when everyone else got stupid with markup they wound up being the cheapest. Go figure.

KARNUT · July 19, 2023

3 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

They love doing that trick of just moving money around to give the illusion of a good deal. What they eat on the trade gets tacked on elsewhere. Either on the new vehicle price or in the finance office.

Interesting business model in general though. Make all the money you’re ever gonna make off a customer in one sale because they will never come back. Can say that for both dealers and the automakers. Wouldn’t think that’s sustainable…

For what it’s worth we wound up buying from Carmax. They used to be on the expensive side, but when everyone else got stupid with markup they wound up being the cheapest. Go figure.

There’s only a few dealerships in 40 years I’ve used. I asked a few questions and give them one shot then I walked. Usually the first thing I ask is I want to see the best deal. I don’t specifically ask about color or equipment. Then I show them my trade if there’s one. I want to know how much for the trade in. And how much for the one I’m interested in. Then I say yes I will check with Ford and Ram. I give them my number and I leave. I last drove a 98 Ford and a 08 Ram. Mostly GMs. With financing if it’s rebate’s versus 0 percent I usually went with my bank and got the rebate. Sometimes I got both. My last new truck a 2014 I got 15K off. It was December 31 2013. My last new car was a Camry. A new model was coming out I got 10K off. I couldn’t believe it either. They had 40 to move. I’m glad I didn’t need one during COVID. I probably would’ve bought the cheapest Versa and road it out.

OnTheReel · July 19, 2023

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

There’s only a few dealerships in 40 years I’ve used. I asked a few questions and give them one shot then I walked. Usually the first thing I ask is I want to see the best deal. I don’t specifically ask about color or equipment. Then I show them my trade if there’s one. I want to know how much for the trade in. And how much for the one I’m interested in. Then I say yes I will check with Ford and Ram. I give them my number and I leave. I last drove a 98 Ford and a 08 Ram. Mostly GMs. With financing if it’s rebate’s versus 0 percent I usually went with my bank and got the rebate. Sometimes I got both. My last new truck a 2014 I got 15K off. It was December 31 2013. My last new car was a Camry. A new model was coming out I got 10K off. I couldn’t believe it either. They had 40 to move. I’m glad I didn’t need one during COVID. I probably would’ve bought the cheapest Versa and road it out.

I did okay on my Ram during Covid (August 2021 to be specific). Custom order at MSRP. Owned my 2019 Silverado outright and got back nearly what I paid new in trade. Financed the difference at 2.9%. No real fuss or fight in the process besides waiting ~4 months for the truck to come in.

Since then MSRP has gone up over 15k, and rates are probably double or more. Called the same dealer for a Jeep a year later and they wouldn’t move off markup. Timing is definitely everything and loyalty means nothing.

KARNUT · July 19, 2023

36 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

I did okay on my Ram during Covid (August 2021 to be specific). Custom order at MSRP. Owned my 2019 Silverado outright and got back nearly what I paid new in trade. Financed the difference at 2.9%. No real fuss or fight in the process besides waiting ~4 months for the truck to come in.

Since then MSRP has gone up over 15k, and rates are probably double or more. Called the same dealer for a Jeep a year later and they wouldn’t move off markup. Timing is definitely everything and loyalty means nothing.

My brother usually gets a new truck every 2-3 years like I did before retirement. He was due when COVID hit. The last several have been Ford 3/4 ton diesels. He runs several crews from Texas to Oklahoma. He’s way overdue. The sticker shock is his deterrent. He doesn’t even have to pay for it. He ain’t paying MSRP let alone above. He usually passes his truck to a crew. There’s several as back ups. I can see him redoing one and rotating. He’s done that with crew trucks with success. He’s a big guy. Right now it just needs a seat redone. The leather is bad. He’s already deleted. He likes the way it runs after.

OnTheReel · July 20, 2023

TRX was the dealer markup machine. MSRP was the best anyone could do. For 2022s & 2023s there were some dealers doing 10k off but by that point the sticker price was already 15k higher. Just moving money around again, but this time Ram themselves were getting in on the action.

Best option these days, especially for a diesel truck, is probably ordering from a volume dealer out of state. There’s a few doing a couple percent under invoice on Ram orders. Not sure on the Ford front since the only one I ever owned was a 1994 Probe. Just not a brand I care for. We’ve been mostly GM and Mopar.

Grumpy Bear · July 20, 2023

I'm looking for something small and pre 1971 with a straight six and a three-speed manual. :sigh: Overdrive would be nice.

OnTheReel · July 20, 2023

14 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I'm looking for something small and pre 1971 with a straight six and a three-speed manual. Overdrive would be nice.

I do miss having something simple in the fleet like my old S10s. Stick shift and power nothing. Red one didn’t even have a radio.

Issue now is that I’m not prepared to spend 5-10 grand on a nice example when I bought mine for less than 500 dollars each back in the day.

KARNUT · July 20, 2023

8 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

TRX was the dealer markup machine. MSRP was the best anyone could do. For 2022s & 2023s there were some dealers doing 10k off but by that point the sticker price was already 15k higher. Just moving money around again, but this time Ram themselves were getting in on the action.

Best option these days, especially for a diesel truck, is probably ordering from a volume dealer out of state. There’s a few doing a couple percent under invoice on Ram orders. Not sure on the Ford front since the only one I ever owned was a 1994 Probe. Just not a brand I care for. We’ve been mostly GM and Mopar.

In my area Rams are under every one else. By a lot. Fords are discounting. Nothing so far from GM in my area.

KARNUT · July 20, 2023

8 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

I do miss having something simple in the fleet like my old S10s. Stick shift and power nothing. Red one didn’t even have a radio.

Issue now is that I’m not prepared to spend 5-10 grand on a nice example when I bought mine for less than 500 dollars each back in the day.

A stick in my avalanche, one can only dream. I have my favorite truck. My 92 was until max performance for some reason wasn’t as much of a priority. I could upgrade if a clean lower mileage up to pre cylinder deactivation avalanche. So far the avalanche looks as good as the day I bought it with minimal upkeep. Closing on 4 years. People who know me can’t believe I haven’t gotten something different by now. I can’t explain it except sometimes things just click. People figure once I retired I’d go through vehicles like I did when I was younger. Actually I came close with my trip vehicles. Some were trades or a family member needed a vehicle. Another quit driving and we got that vehicle.

Grumpy Bear · July 20, 2023

Where an EV has some appeal to me is in the urban setting. Just not enough to get skinned buying one.

And I have questions. Why are ugly EV's cheaper than hansom ones? Is there a rule that say the cheapest ones have to be so **** ugly? :crackup:

KARNUT · July 20, 2023

55 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Where an EV has some appeal to me is in the urban setting. Just not enough to get skinned buying one.

And I have questions. Why are ugly EV's cheaper than hansom ones? Is there a rule that say the cheapest ones have to be so **** ugly?

The hybrids are becoming viable if you’re inclined. The latest Toyota hybrids are getting sporty.