2024 gasser going up the Ike with 13K lb. 5th wheel

KARNUT · May 31, 2023

1 hour ago, Pryme said:

Stock trucks too. I’ve seen videos on YouTube of trucks with very low miles with it.

I wouldn’t doubt there’s some of that, manufactures rarely have clean hands. Everything I’ve read so far says modifications and worn parts are the problem. If parts are prematurely wearing that’s on them. A bad batch of parts, etc. Otherwise there would be a safety recall.

the wanderer · May 31, 2023

15 hours ago, Pryme said:

They were posted here a few times. I no longer have them saved.

Ford needs almost 50 more cubic inches to just edge out the Chevy. GM knows pushrods. Ford knows how to make their front end shake violently down the road on trucks with less than 1k miles. Seen it multiple times.

Well again, I'm not saying you're wrong but it sounds like there is something else going on. There are actually reports that the 7.3 is too conservative with the specs at the crank.

As for the dyno run you saw, who knows, maybe that was a sick Ford too. Because crank hp is crank hp, assuming Ford isn't lying there would have to be quite a large loss in the rest of the drivetrain vs the chevy. Transmission is similar (they're both 10 speeds and though they have branched on their own, they start from the same source which is the shared 10 speed in the half tons). So that leaves what, rear axle? I just don't see it, the math doesn't add up there.

C/K Man · May 31, 2023

3 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I wouldn’t doubt there’s some of that, manufactures rarely have clean hands. Everything I’ve read so far says modifications and worn parts are the problem. If parts are prematurely wearing that’s on them. A bad batch of parts, etc. Otherwise there would be a safety recall.

The Ford Super Duty 4X4 front suspension has poor lateral axle control, that's the biggest issue. Wear in the track bar joints is usually the cause, but the problem can happen on new trucks if the alignment is off . No question lift kits and wheels with too much offset make the problem worse.

Pryme · May 31, 2023

21 minutes ago, the wanderer said:

Well again, I'm not saying you're wrong but it sounds like there is something else going on. There are actually reports that the 7.3 is too conservative with the specs at the crank.

As for the dyno run you saw, who knows, maybe that was a sick Ford too. Because crank hp is crank hp, assuming Ford isn't lying there would have to be quite a large loss in the rest of the drivetrain vs the chevy. Transmission is similar (they're both 10 speeds and though they have branched on their own, they start from the same source which is the shared 10 speed in the half tons). So that leaves what, rear axle? I just don't see it, the math doesn't add up there.

Your information is bad. These trucks 10 speeds have nothing to do with the half tons, this has been stated all over countless times.
These dynos were with the old 6sd to boot vs the Fords 10spd

BB68 · May 31, 2023

18 hours ago, Pryme said:

Ford knows how to make their front end shake violently down the road on trucks with less than 1k miles. Seen it multiple times.

I can vouch for this, our 8 F-250 service trucks are in for death wobble every 25-50K miles even under warranty. BUT Ford will never take blame, always saying our guys hit something... I just cant believe our vehicle buyer keeps buying them.

I came from a different company all GM and the last thing we ever touched was front suspension even at 200K.

Jettech1 · May 31, 2023

I'm ready for a new 10 speed 6.6L dyno. Anyone out there that wants to be the first? It would be so amazing to compare it to the dyno run from the 6 speed....C'mon all.....one of you can do it.....One up TFL...I promise you all if I had the 10 speed, after a thousand miles it would be dynoed. My wife has venmo. you do it, I'll pay for it.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Jettech1

the wanderer · June 1, 2023

7 hours ago, Pryme said:

Your information is bad. These trucks 10 speeds have nothing to do with the half tons, this has been stated all over countless times.
These dynos were with the old 6sd to boot vs the Fords 10spd

From what I understand the 10 speeds in the half tons were used as a starting point for both heavy dutys; GM developed it further into the allison, and Ford developed it further into their own.

Again I'd love to see the dynos. Right now there is no proof of anything, which is fine, but then don't try to change my mind on it either; physics is physics and it's obvious you have a massive bias against Ford... so naturally one questions

Jettech1 · June 1, 2023

Can someone please put their new 10 speed on a dyno? Please? I'm a man of my word. I will pay for it if that makes it easier for you.

Pryme · June 1, 2023

1 hour ago, the wanderer said:

From what I understand the 10 speeds in the half tons were used as a starting point for both heavy dutys; GM developed it further into the allison, and Ford developed it further into their own.

Again I'd love to see the dynos. Right now there is no proof of anything, which is fine, but then don't try to change my mind on it either; physics is physics and it's obvious you have a massive bias against Ford... so naturally one questions

Took me 2sec to type it into that new fangled Google machine and find it.

The 7.3 put down 328/366 before they tuned it.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ford-73-liter-godzilla-v8-dyno-run-reveals-348-rwhp-with-93-octane-tune-143136.html

if you look at the link Jett posted, you will see the 6.6 6spd put down 328/359.

So they both put down the same horsepower and the ford put down a whopping 7ftlb more.

These are just two trucks, but it shows they are very close.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Pryme

the wanderer · June 1, 2023

11 hours ago, Pryme said:

Took me 2sec to type it into that new fangled Google machine and find it.

The 7.3 put down 328/366 before they tuned it.
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ford-73-liter-godzilla-v8-dyno-run-reveals-348-rwhp-with-93-octane-tune-143136.html

if you look at the link Jett posted, you will see the 6.6 6spd put down 328/359.

So they both put down the same horsepower and the ford put down a whopping 7ftlb more.

These are just two trucks, but it shows they are very close.

I did a 10 second search and "speed watched" this video, TFL says they got 358/407 out of a stock 7.3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGlHsFAFoU

Edited June 1, 2023 by the wanderer

Pryme · June 1, 2023

28 minutes ago, the wanderer said:

I did a 10 second search and "speed watched" this video, TFL says they got 358/407 out of a stock 7.3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGlHsFAFoU

That dyno is very optimistic considering the 6.2 put down 337/370. All other dynos I’ve seen on a stock 6.2 are not close.

Different trucks, different dynos. Yada yada drive what you like.

I’ve been seeing plenty of issues with the 7.3 and only a few reports of oil burning in the 6.6 although most are not having that issue.

Ry Guy · June 1, 2023

Being a member of multiple different brand enthusiast forums, I would say they are about the same for frequency of reported issues. Both have fallen subject to internet amplification in terms of the issues on the gassers being overblown. And each forum has it's own brand-specific echo chamber. Now that 10 speeds are behind both, they are so close that there are more important factors than the engine when deciding which truck to buy.

KARNUT · June 1, 2023

52 minutes ago, Ry Guy said:

Being a member of multiple different brand enthusiast forums, I would say they are about the same for frequency of reported issues. Both have fallen subject to internet amplification in terms of the issues on the gassers being overblown. And each forum has it's own brand-specific echo chamber. Now that 10 speeds are behind both, they are so close that there are more important factors than the engine when deciding which truck to buy.

I’m out of the fifth wheel hauling game now. When I was in the thick of it I could back up my rig as good as going forward. Listening to the CarPro radio broadcast they say the Ford backup assist is the best. I believe at present the super duty has the edge in TQ and horsepower. Comfort of the rig would matter more to me. Backup assist would be in that box.

Edited June 1, 2023 by KARNUT

the wanderer · June 1, 2023

1 hour ago, Pryme said:

That dyno is very optimistic considering the 6.2 put down 337/370. All other dynos I’ve seen on a stock 6.2 are not close.

Different trucks, different dynos. Yada yada drive what you like.

I’ve been seeing plenty of issues with the 7.3 and only a few reports of oil burning in the 6.6 although most are not having that issue.

Yes but you had no trouble drawing permanent conclusions on how close the 6.6 is vs the 7.3, based on two completely different tests/days/dynos etc, but now you find an "optimisitic" dyno because you don't like the numbers I happened to find in 10 seconds of googling.

I'm not saying the 6.6 is a bad choice, its actually above the 7.3 on my list as I've always been more interested in GM vs Ford and I buy the complete truck, not just a drive train.

I'm just saying you have a massive bias which is not showing the 7.3 in a true light. I'm all for objective comparisons, just not rose colored ones.

The 7.3 is right now suffering from cam delaminating issues, that is true. We don't know yet if it was just a bad batch of cams, but it WILL get corrected by Ford if it hasn't already (they cannot afford not to with all those warranty claims). Once that is done, the 7.3 could be bullet proof. How do you fix burning oil issues, and how do you fix dirty engines due to the use of direct injection? Ford already went through that process a decade ago and fixed that by using by direct and port injection, Chevy is still blinding pretending the problem doesn't exist.

Pros and Cons my friend.

And there is no way that 7.3 would be behind the 6.6 in that test if it wasn't already limping badly which was my original point.

Pryme · June 2, 2023

23 hours ago, the wanderer said:

Yes but you had no trouble drawing permanent conclusions on how close the 6.6 is vs the 7.3, based on two completely different tests/days/dynos etc, but now you find an "optimisitic" dyno because you don't like the numbers I happened to find in 10 seconds of googling.

I'm not saying the 6.6 is a bad choice, its actually above the 7.3 on my list as I've always been more interested in GM vs Ford and I buy the complete truck, not just a drive train.

I'm just saying you have a massive bias which is not showing the 7.3 in a true light. I'm all for objective comparisons, just not rose colored ones.

The 7.3 is right now suffering from cam delaminating issues, that is true. We don't know yet if it was just a bad batch of cams, but it WILL get corrected by Ford if it hasn't already (they cannot afford not to with all those warranty claims). Once that is done, the 7.3 could be bullet proof. How do you fix burning oil issues, and how do you fix dirty engines due to the use of direct injection? Ford already went through that process a decade ago and fixed that by using by direct and port injection, Chevy is still blinding pretending the problem doesn't exist.

Pros and Cons my friend.

And there is no way that 7.3 would be behind the 6.6 in that test if it wasn't already limping badly which was my original point.

I based my conclusion on the optimistic dyno on the fact I’ve seen a ton of dynos on 6.2 trucks and they don’t dyno as high as the 5star videos. That company is a bit shady from what I’ve read on power numbers. It looks good on paper for their customer base though. That’s all I’ll say on it.