WDH or not on 1-Ton Trucks

[Dr1ft3r]

I travelled 300 miles today each way on a trip to get my new trailer. I dropped off the smaller Winnebago Micro Minnie and picked up the larger Outdoors RV Trail Series toy hauler. I used the new B&W hitch I bought last week to tow both trailers. They were both dry.

 

The Micro Minnie weighs in at 4,400# GVWR and 510# hitch weight (not including the B&W). The rear of my truck dropped about 1" after hitching up the trailer. Driving with this trailer wasn't much different than driving without it. I had to drive through wind and snow. I had zero sway issues and no noticeable impact to steering or breaking. I was travelling between 75 and 80 mph after I got out of the snow (about 60 mph in the snow when there weren't any vehicles slowing me down).

 

I haven't weighed the toy hauler yet, but I plan to weigh the hitch tomorrow. According to the manufacturer it should weigh 8,525# GVWR and 1,310# hitch weight. This is certainly without the 2 lead acid batteries that were added to my tongue. I also received a shopping cart of free stuff with the purchase of my trailer which I placed in the front cargo hatch. I estimate the hitch weight to be closer to 1,500# since I did not have anything loaded in the rear of the trailer to relieve some of the tongue weight. The rear of my truck dropped 3.5" after hitching up the trailer. I had clear roads for the 300 mile return trip home, but it was very windy in some areas. I encountered a little bit of sway due to the wind and there were times when the front end of the truck felt light, such as when going up a mountain at high rpm. I was travelling between 70 and 80 mph. The hitch weight will not normally be so high on this trailer as I will always have weight in the back which will lighten the hitch load. So this was likely my worst case scenario.

A WDH would be wasted money on my light trailer, IMO. It would have been helpful with my heavy trailer. But it was still certainly not required. The ride was rougher though with a hitch weight that high. I'll have to see what my wet GVWR comes out to. I'm guessing 10,500#-11,000# which means I can possibly get away with a hitch weight of 1,100# or less. If I'm not content with the ride at that weight then I may consider a WDH just for the ride quality which would come from shifting the hitch weight off of the rear axle.

I will weigh my hitch tomorrow so I know what the actual weight is. Today I was in a rush to get back home before dark, so I didn't weigh anything.

[the wanderer]

6 hours ago, Dr1ft3r said:

I was travelling between 70 and 80 mph

 

Please let me know when you're driving so I can stay off the roads and avoid the show when you inevitably blow a china bomb.

[Another JR]

Deleted - didn’t know what was meant by “China bomb.”

Edited March 2, 2023 by Another JR

[Dr1ft3r]

2 hours ago, the wanderer said:

 

Please let me know when you're driving so I can stay off the roads and avoid the show when you inevitably blow a china bomb.

 

Thanks for the constructive criticism. The tires on both trailers are rated for 75+ mph, but I was mostly travelling at 70 mph. I went up to 80 mph now and then to test how the trailer was handling in extreme conditions. It was also cold outside. If you knew anything about tires you would know that those speed ratings are for hot weather. Tires fail from heat. But hey, I'll let you know when I'm on the road so I don't have to pass you.

[the wanderer]

4 hours ago, Dr1ft3r said:

 

Thanks for the constructive criticism. The tires on both trailers are rated for 75+ mph, but I was mostly travelling at 70 mph. I went up to 80 mph now and then to test how the trailer was handling in extreme conditions. It was also cold outside. If you knew anything about tires you would know that those speed ratings are for hot weather. Tires fail from heat. But hey, I'll let you know when I'm on the road so I don't have to pass you.

 

Like alcoholic drivers, you arrogant guys never learn.

[Jettech1]

14 hours ago, Dr1ft3r said:

I travelled 300 miles today each way on a trip to get my new trailer. I dropped off the smaller Winnebago Micro Minnie and picked up the larger Outdoors RV Trail Series toy hauler. I used the new B&W hitch I bought last week to tow both trailers. They were both dry.

 

The Micro Minnie weighs in at 4,400# GVWR and 510# hitch weight (not including the B&W). The rear of my truck dropped about 1" after hitching up the trailer. Driving with this trailer wasn't much different than driving without it. I had to drive through wind and snow. I had zero sway issues and no noticeable impact to steering or breaking. I was travelling between 75 and 80 mph after I got out of the snow (about 60 mph in the snow when there weren't any vehicles slowing me down).

 

I haven't weighed the toy hauler yet, but I plan to weigh the hitch tomorrow. According to the manufacturer it should weigh 8,525# GVWR and 1,310# hitch weight. This is certainly without the 2 lead acid batteries that were added to my tongue. I also received a shopping cart of free stuff with the purchase of my trailer which I placed in the front cargo hatch. I estimate the hitch weight to be closer to 1,500# since I did not have anything loaded in the rear of the trailer to relieve some of the tongue weight. The rear of my truck dropped 3.5" after hitching up the trailer. I had clear roads for the 300 mile return trip home, but it was very windy in some areas. I encountered a little bit of sway due to the wind and there were times when the front end of the truck felt light, such as when going up a mountain at high rpm. I was travelling between 70 and 80 mph. The hitch weight will not normally be so high on this trailer as I will always have weight in the back which will lighten the hitch load. So this was likely my worst case scenario.

A WDH would be wasted money on my light trailer, IMO. It would have been helpful with my heavy trailer. But it was still certainly not required. The ride was rougher though with a hitch weight that high. I'll have to see what my wet GVWR comes out to. I'm guessing 10,500#-11,000# which means I can possibly get away with a hitch weight of 1,100# or less. If I'm not content with the ride at that weight then I may consider a WDH just for the ride quality which would come from shifting the hitch weight off of the rear axle.

I will weigh my hitch tomorrow so I know what the actual weight is. Today I was in a rush to get back home before dark, so I didn't weigh anything.

Ok so back to your toy hauler, I'm curious as to how much weight it is rated for in the back?  

[Dr1ft3r]

7 hours ago, Jettech1 said:

Ok so back to your toy hauler, I'm curious as to how much weight it is rated for in the back?  

 

The GVWR of the trailer is 12,995#. The dry weight is 8,525#, according to the manufacturer. So, in theory 4,470# could be added to the back if no other weight were added elsewhere (not realistic). The tongue weight would need to be at least 1,300# in that case and it would be far less than that if all of that weight was added to the rear only. The TW would likely even be negative in that case.

The TW was a bit more than I estimated based on the manufacturer's posted weight. It was actually 1,700# dry, which makes more sense mathematically based on the height difference between both trailers (1" drop for 510# and 3.5" drop for 1,700#). So I was towing at about 18%-19% TW when mostly dry.

I will be adding the most weight that I can add to achieve the best TW. Since my ATV alone will not be enough weight (700#) I will find other heavy items to store in the rear with it. Based on lever action and the placement of the axles I'm estimating that 1000# in the rear will remove about 350# at the tongue. If I could put that 1000# all exactly on the rear edge of the trailer it would be more like 500#. But that weight is going to be distributed over several feet of the rear end, which places the weight closer to the axles as it moves away from the rear, which means less lever action on the tongue. The game is finding the most optimum loadout.

As was mentioned from another commenter, using a WDH can transfer load from the rear axle to the remaining axles. I may need to go this route if I want to get off of the overloads for a better ride. But I want to try to lighten the TW with load distribution tactics first. Since I will be heading back out of state tomorrow for work it will be some time before I get to continue this game. The trailer will likely sit until mid-summer.

 

[asilverblazer]

On 3/2/2023 at 7:27 AM, the wanderer said:

 

Please let me know when you're driving so I can stay off the roads and avoid the show when you inevitably blow a china bomb.

 

On 3/2/2023 at 2:51 PM, the wanderer said:

 

Like alcoholic drivers, you arrogant guys never learn.

Since no one here knows the actual speed rating of the tires on the trailer or their brand and quality. Your condescension and holy than thou attitude is uncalled for.

 

HOWEVER, the tires just replaced off my trailer "Ridgway" are about 2 1/2 years old, with maybe 5k miles on them. I've had two blow up now. Ambient temperature on the last one was low 70's and low 50's on the first. Speed 60-65 on the first and 70-75 on the second. PSI was correct and they weren't overloaded or over sped.

 

Point being, these off-brand, no-brand, whatever brand trailer tires are junk.

 

Hopefully the Goodyear Endurance are better - they sure cost more. 

[Jettech1]

1 hour ago, asilverblazer said:

Hopefully the Goodyear Endurance are better - they sure cost more. 

I'm not sure how much they cost, luckily our camper came with them but they are supposed to be the best of the best.  We will be towing our camper to Maine this August from Atlanta.  I bought the TST 507 TPMS a few weeks ago for it just to be safe.  Should be a fun trip for sure.

[Dr1ft3r]

2 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

 

Since no one here knows the actual speed rating of the tires on the trailer or their brand and quality. Your condescension and holy than thou attitude is uncalled for.

 

HOWEVER, the tires just replaced off my trailer "Ridgway" are about 2 1/2 years old, with maybe 5k miles on them. I've had two blow up now. Ambient temperature on the last one was low 70's and low 50's on the first. Speed 60-65 on the first and 70-75 on the second. PSI was correct and they weren't overloaded or over sped.

 

Point being, these off-brand, no-brand, whatever brand trailer tires are junk.

 

Hopefully the Goodyear Endurance are better - they sure cost more. 

 

The tires on the Winnebago were a Q rated Goodyear light truck tire. I don't recall the exact type, but they are rated for 99 mph and are less than a year old with very low miles.

 

The tires on the new toy hauler are Goodyear G614 RST tires, which are one of the best tires you can get. 14-ply and rated for 75 mph. Being brand new and used in 30 degree temp while not even being close to their weight limit I had zero concerns about testing the trailer at 80 mph speeds.

 

FWIW, I've been driving for 30 years and have yet to have a blowout. I never let my tires get old.

[Dr1ft3r]

2 hours ago, Jettech1 said:

I'm not sure how much they cost, luckily our camper came with them but they are supposed to be the best of the best.  We will be towing our camper to Maine this August from Atlanta.  I bought the TST 507 TPMS a few weeks ago for it just to be safe.  Should be a fun trip for sure.

 

The Goodyear Endurance tires are great too. I have those on my small utility trailer. The trailer came with some off brand cheap tires that have a lot of bad reviews for failing with very few miles. I replaced those cheap tires with the Endurance tires almost immediately. I bought new rims too and kept the cheap tires with the rims for spare tires.

 

Oh, and I remembered the Winnebago has Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac tires, which are also Q rated. I will only buy Goodyear or Michelin when it comes to tires.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Dr1ft3r

[the wanderer]

6 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

 

Since no one here knows the actual speed rating of the tires on the trailer or their brand and quality. Your condescension and holy than thou attitude is uncalled for.

 

HOWEVER, the tires just replaced off my trailer "Ridgway" are about 2 1/2 years old, with maybe 5k miles on them. I've had two blow up now. Ambient temperature on the last one was low 70's and low 50's on the first. Speed 60-65 on the first and 70-75 on the second. PSI was correct and they weren't overloaded or over sped.

 

Point being, these off-brand, no-brand, whatever brand trailer tires are junk.

 

Hopefully the Goodyear Endurance are better - they sure cost more. 

 

What do drunk drivers, cowboys, and guys who tow trailers at 80mph have in common? Arrogance, "it happens to other guys but it will never happen to me".

 

Condescension? That's putting it very mildly. I have zero respect or use for guys like that. Lets hope that when the damage starts they only take out themselves and not someone just innocently going about their day.

 

And thanks for just proving my point, doesn't matter what brand of tire you're running, you can be doing everything correct and still get a blow out.

[KARNUT]

28 minutes ago, the wanderer said:

 

What do drunk drivers, cowboys, and guys who tow trailers at 80mph have in common? Arrogance, "it happens to other guys but it will never happen to me".

 

Condescension? That's putting it very mildly. I have zero respect or use for guys like that. Lets hope that when the damage starts they only take out themselves and not someone just innocently going about their day.

 

And thanks for just proving my point, doesn't matter what brand of tire you're running, you can be doing everything correct and still get a blow out.

I towed 1 million miles with one gooseneck trailer that weighed 7500 lbs with a 14K tractor on it. I ran load range e Michelin tires. I towed the speed limit with highly modified diesels. Never even had a flat let alone a blowout. If l did it wouldn’t be fun but the other 7 tires would pickup the slack. If you don’t have a properly equipped rig. There’s no speed that’s slow enough. The only two tires that could make things interesting would be the front two. I never let them get 50 percent wore out. That would be more concerning than going 75 mph the speed limit in Texas. Comparisons to drunk drivers and cowboys is ridiculous. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by KARNUT

[Dr1ft3r]

29 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I towed 1 million miles with one gooseneck trailer that weighed 7500 lbs with a 14K tractor on it. I ran load range e Michelin tires. I towed the speed limit with highly modified diesels. Never even had a flat let alone a blowout. If l did it wouldn’t be fun but the other 7 tires would pickup the slack. If you don’t have a properly equipped rig. There’s no speed that’s slow enough. The only two tires that could make things interesting would be the front two. I never let them get 50 percent wore out. That would be more concerning than going 75 mph the speed limit in Texas. Comparisons to drunk drivers and cowboys is ridiculous. 

 

Exactly! These aren't 1 axle utility trailers that will have a catastrophic failure on the rare chance that 1 tire blows out. What are the chances that 2 tires on the same side of a trailer will fail at the same time? Heck, from the way this guy worries he shouldn't even be driving his truck out of fear that one of those tires will have a blowout. The chances are about the same.

 

The speed limits where I live are 80 mph. So when I was doing 80 I wasn't speeding either.

 

Yes, tire brands do matter when it comes to reliability.

[the wanderer]

You cowboys do what you want, you've obviously justified it in your own minds.

 

As I said, some people just never learn.