Educate a potential convert

Hobienick · February 12, 2023

I currently drive a 2012 F150 with 3.5L Ecoboost, SuperCrew cab with 6.5' bed. It's a great truck. However, we may have bought a camper last year that is maxing out what she can do. I'm within my number, but just barely. While it can tow the camper, I would much prefer to have a bigger truck. I would also like the option of moving up to a 5th wheel later without needing to buy another truck. I am looking at 3500 SRW. Ram is out, no payload. I am looking at Ford and GMC. I am a bit leery about the recent Ford QC issues so I stopped by the GMC dealer. It appears that GM has really stepped up their game in recent years. I was not a fan in the past.

The plan is to keep the next truck I buy for 15-20 years to go on long RV trips and be my daily driver. My commute is about 20 miles round trip each day. I also would like to treat myself to a nice interior since we plan to spend many hours at a time on our trips so I am looking at Denali. I like the looks of the GMX better than the Chevy. I am not convinced either way for gas or diesel.

Now that you have my backstory, I am looking for advice. I test drove a GMC SLT and a Chevy High Country. Am I wrong in saying the seats in the High Country are different than in the SLT? I'm not talking about the heaters, or electronic adjustments, I'm referring to the feel of them. I ask, because in the past (90's and early 2000's) GM seats and I did not get along. After about 3 hours driving my back hurt so badly I could barely walk when I got out of the truck. The SLT trim seats feel the same as the "old" ones I remember, but the High Country (and I assume the Denali) feel different, better. This is my main holdup with looking harder at GMC/Chevy. I would hate to spend 10's of 1000's on a new or new to me truck and not be able to take road trips in it.

I am willing to rent a truck for a road trip without towing to see for myself. Does anyone know if the Denali interior on the Yukon or 1500 is the same as the interior on the HD trucks? It is much easier to find Yukon rentals than HD rentals with the Denali trim package.

I am open to used trucks as well. Are there any recent years to shy away from? What are people's thoughts on the 10 speed tranny? In the Ford community the word is the repair costs far outweigh the fuel economy savings. Any other general GM advice you wish to share?

XY74 · February 14, 2023

I have a HC and find the seats to be just fine on long trips. I used to have an Excursion and the seats in that were brutal to sit in all day for me. Hear a lot of complaints about the GM seats, so maybe the lower trims do have different seats. ????

I like the 10 speed transmission a lot, always seems to be in the right gear. Very quick and smooth shifts. I question how much better fuel economy one would get from the extra gears, but the driving experience is excellent. Repair cost? Probably higher but not so sure that is much of a factor when you are buying a very expensive vehicle anyway.

Ry Guy · February 14, 2023

There is this post that has some replies that may be useful:

KARNUT · February 14, 2023

I listen to CarproUSA radio on I heart radio every Saturday. He also has a website that helps buyers. He tries to be non biased. His advice leans towards ford for the aids it provides making towing easier. His favorite half ton is Ram. I’ve been out of the pulling game awhile.

Hobienick · February 15, 2023

Thank you for the responses. The linked thread did answer my questions about the seats. I think I will have to rent the trim package I want before making the decision.

Assuming seat comfort is a non-issue the one thing Ford would have over the GM is, potentially, a higher payload due to the aluminum body. Of course I would have to look at the door sticker to confirm this.

Pryme · February 15, 2023

1 hour ago, Hobienick said:

Thank you for the responses. The linked thread did answer my questions about the seats. I think I will have to rent the trim package I want before making the decision.

Assuming seat comfort is a non-issue the one thing Ford would have over the GM is, potentially, a higher payload due to the aluminum body. Of course I would have to look at the door sticker to confirm this.

I’ll save you the trouble. They don’t.
the only thing you get with the Ford aluminum body is wavy panels that don’t line up properly and leaking water into the interior. I can’t believe how many people complain on ford truck forum about their aluminum trucks leaking.

a gas 2500 has a payload over 3,500 lbs. the F250 is typically around 2,800-3k

Edited February 15, 2023 by Pryme

Dr1ft3r · February 15, 2023

He's looking at a 3500 SRW. My payload is over 4,000. I don't know what the F350 has.

Edit:

I should add that I have some options which lower my available payload, which is also why my curb weight is higher than average. I think max payload is a few hundred #s higher.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Dr1ft3r

Jettech1 · February 15, 2023

2 hours ago, Pryme said:

I’ll save you the trouble. They don’t.
the only thing you get with the Ford aluminum body is wavy panels that don’t line up properly and leaking water into the interior. I can’t believe how many people complain on ford truck forum about their aluminum trucks leaking.

a gas 2500 has a payload over 3,500 lbs. the F250 is typically around 2,800-3k

That's quite concerning about the wavy body panels. I had no idea that the Fords were having that problem. Not that I would have because I'm not a fan of Ford trucks, but it makes me even happier I went with a GM. Especially now that I'm reading about the some of the Godzilla engines aren't quite living up to the reliability they should be, especially their lifters. Hopefully they get it all worked out soon. I hate to see any manufacturer have major problems, although most do with one thing or the other. I'm still very happy I went GM!!

Pryme · February 15, 2023

8 hours ago, Jettech1 said:

That's quite concerning about the wavy body panels. I had no idea that the Fords were having that problem. Not that I would have because I'm not a fan of Ford trucks, but it makes me even happier I went with a GM. Especially now that I'm reading about the some of the Godzilla engines aren't quite living up to the reliability they should be, especially their lifters. Hopefully they get it all worked out soon. I hate to see any manufacturer have major problems, although most do with one thing or the other. I'm still very happy I went GM!!

The ford truck forum is worth a peek if you’re bored. It’s littered with posts on tons of issues. Wavy panels are a real thing. Also poor fitment and leaking water into the interior. My dad actually has a F250 lariat 2019 and the bed is poorly fit to the frame. It’s noticeable when you look down the length of the truck from the back. It’s off to one side slightly.

GM is of course not free of issues but there seems to be more with the super duty.

I’m not going to post anymore ford vs Chevy because we all know that will turn into a locked thread!

good luck with whichever you choose.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Pryme

nards444 · February 15, 2023

Well I have owned what you have and now own what you want. What you tow as in weight and what you want to tow, and how often and how far all matter, along with what you want to get out of it. If your towing a the limit and doing it far and long, moving to the 2500-3500 platform will be you best bet. 3500 really isn’t necessary, but if you want the added capability for a extra bucks, so be it.

For reference I have owned a 2011 and 2015 3.5 ecoboost, 2021 Chevy 2500 Diesel, and now a 2022 GMC AT4 gasser

With that said I have owned two ecoboosts and as a whole have been the most capable trucks I have ever owned for what they are. So if your talking a HD gasser, the ecoboost actually has 50 more hp and torque then the GM 6.6 gasser and the ecoboost will have a flat line torque curve, meaning you get it all the same time vs over 3-4k rpms. Motor wise the ecoboost acceleration wise will probably haul the same if not better then the 6.6 gasser and also get substantially better mpg when not towing and probably the same when towing. My ecoboost typically got about 17-18 all around mpg and 12-13 towing 10k lbs going 65, where as my gasser in my GMC does about 12-13 all around and slightly less towing. The difference is the bigger truck will be able to haul more payload and towing weight, and will also handle and stop better then the smaller half ton truck.

No comparison with the diesel and the gasser after owning both. You want the worry free towing, accelerate when towing, and get descent MPG get the diesel. The gasser IMO doesn’t hold a candle. Your going to pay more for the diesel, 10k more, and fuel right now is almost 2 bucks more a gallon, you save about 20% on that due to mpg increase. But the bottom line between maint and fuel you will never save money on the diesel, but you will also get a better return at trade in time. But if you plan on owning 15 years that might be moot point, but might be another reason to go diesel. In a way I regret getting rid of the diesel, but reality was I hauled a boat 10 times a year 15 miles amongst some other smaller thing, and in the whole equation going down to the gasser saved me money.

Lastly look at trim level levels and exactly what you want and need. I wouldn’t necessarily zoom to the Denali or HC after comparing apples to apples. My AT4 was option to option compared to the denali. I ended up saving 5-6k, and the only difference was badging, grill, and wheels. Same can be said for Chevy. High trim options merely add all the options and change out the wheels and sometimes grills and charge you more. I say typically because at times you can pay more for a lower trim level if you do not know what you are looking. Buddy of mine was bent on a Denali and told him the same thing. He ended up with a Carhartt edition with everything he wanted for over 10k less.

nards444 · February 15, 2023

1 hour ago, Pryme said:

The ford truck forum is worth a peek if you’re bored. It’s littered with posts on tons of issues. Wavy panels are a real thing. Also poor fitment and leaking water into the interior. My dad actually has a F250 lariat 2019 and the bed is poorly fit to the frame. It’s noticeable when you look down the length of the truck from the back. It’s off to one side slightly.

GM is of course not free of issues but there seems to be more with the super duty.

I’m not going to post anymore ford vs Chevy because we all know that will turn into a locked thread!

good luck with whichever you choose.

have to be careful of threads at times though, squeaky wheels get the grease so to speak. And often times there is a lot of anecdotal talk on threads, where a handful of experiences somehow warp into its widespread issue.

Hobienick · February 15, 2023

This is a good conversation. Thank you. Currently I tow an RV at a GVWR 8,500lbs. My F150 can do it, but I am right at my trucks max GVWR and RAWR. Towing capacity is rarely an issue when towing an RV. Payload is. While a 3500 is overkill for this trailer, I would like to option to move to a 5th wheel in the future without having to buy another truck. From what I can tell the price difference is minimal between the 2500 and 3500 equipped the same.

As far as trim levels, I don't care about the badging or chrome. I would like some of the towing accessories and comfortable seats. If the AT4 has/can have the options I want, I am all for going that route.

nards444 · February 15, 2023

51 minutes ago, Hobienick said:

This is a good conversation. Thank you. Currently I tow an RV at a GVWR 8,500lbs. My F150 can do it, but I am right at my trucks max GVWR and RAWR. Towing capacity is rarely an issue when towing an RV. Payload is. While a 3500 is overkill for this trailer, I would like to option to move to a 5th wheel in the future without having to buy another truck. From what I can tell the price difference is minimal between the 2500 and 3500 equipped the same.

As far as trim levels, I don't care about the badging or chrome. I would like some of the towing accessories and comfortable seats. If the AT4 has/can have the options I want, I am all for going that route.

reality is short of the work truck, the seats are all the same short of what is covering them, and if they have heated cool etc.

Depending on what you want, you can always get an uploaded LT trim level which offers leather with most if not all the options of an LTZ or HC and save considerably. But then again I order all my trucks and dont just take whats on the lot, because to me I either overpay for things I dont want or need and or dont get what I want.

Amcguy1970 · February 15, 2023

Seats should be the same, just different covers and then features (motorized, heat/cool, lumbar, etc).

With the box checker trims keep an eye on payload. Where a WT version with barely any options may have for example 6k payload, a loaded up HC might only have half that with all the options and sunroof. An AT4 with have most those features and weight, but also less capability as the off road suspension doesn't do any favors in the payload and towing capacities. You probably only lose a little but I haven't looked at the HD's to know. In the half tons an AT4/Trail Boss tow and haul less than the other regular versions.

Tyler

Dr1ft3r · February 15, 2023

1 hour ago, Hobienick said:

Towing capacity is rarely an issue when towing an RV. Payload is.

For sure. Especially when I add 3 more people in the cab and an ATV in the bed. Then add the tongue weight of the trailer and I can use up over 3k of payload real quick. Plus, I don't like running at the maximum weight limits, so some buffer room for emergency situations is nice (especially in the mountains where I usually am). It never hurts to have more.