Engine-Transmission additives

[KARNUT]

I’ve never given much thought to additives since the slick 50 days before synthetics. I acquired a low mileage CRV that I use for trips. It has a cvt transmission. I’ve always been acutely aware of the normal noises of machines. The cvt is spooky. After several services I noticed my Honda dealership offers wynns with a lifetime warranty. Being I’m shooting for 200K miles minimum I figured what the heck it’s not much money. Strangely enough after adding to the transmission it’s actually smoother. It had a mild chatter at times. Most people wouldn’t notice, I feel everything. Any one have any experience with this or BG? I’m anxious to see if there’s any fuel mileage difference.

[Grumpy Bear]

Red Line Synthetic Oil. Non-Slip CVT (redlineoil.com)

 

My take? Additives cover a problem in the specified chemistry. As most fluids are the correct viscosity but perhaps not the correct frictional package. I really noticed the difference RL MTL made in the Honda 5 speed manual first gear synchromesh engagement in my 98 HX. Simple friction additive to their already tough gear/diff oils. Got a similar result with RL Shock Proof Heavy in the Electra-Gluide 5 speed transmission and Enfield Albion 4 speed. D6 in Peppers 6L80E.  Friction modification is something this company gets right. 

 

Truth is, I know people that will not use their PCMO products but swear by their gear oils for just this reason. 

[customboss]

7 hours ago, KARNUT said:

’ve never given much thought to additives since the slick 50 days before synthetics. I acquired a low mileage CRV that I use for trips. It has a cvt transmission. I’ve always been acutely aware of the normal noises of machines. The cvt is spooky. After several services I noticed my Honda dealership offers wynns with a lifetime warranty. Being I’m shooting for 200K miles minimum I figured what the heck it’s not much money. Strangely enough after adding to the transmission it’s actually smoother. It had a mild chatter at times. Most people wouldn’t notice, I feel everything. Any one have any experience with this or BG? I’m anxious to see if there’s any fuel mileage difference.

Until 2019 I was developing a better CVT fluid for Nissan JATCO made CVT's and determined their NS-3 fluid was as good as it got.  Your Honda is made in house and a good unit.  Because of the variation in designs I would use a fluid that is designed for the particular unit.

 

Amsoil, Redline, BG make great broad coverage CVT fluids and Subaru,Nissan,Honda have theirs made under contract by Idemitsu in Jeffersonville, IN.  If Lubrication Engineers made a CVT fluid that they recommend I would try that too. Ford has its CVT fluids made by Phillips which is the owner of Redline now. 

 

CVT fluid is a sacrificial fluid because of the balancing act between design issues, heat, friction reduction and traction COF specifically all these transmissions while sharing CVT are really different. 

 

Additives might quiet things but the manufacturer DOES NOT WARRANT use of additives for a reason, they can't be sure it won't interrupt this balancing act the fluid performs. Dealers aren't owned by OEM so they will try to make money off additives and gimmicks that can work or not work well. As long as the dealer covers your use of Wynns then if it works well go for it but it might better to use what Grumpy mentioned or your beloved Amsoil.  Whatever you use Stan change it frequently when you can tell it might be worn because the fluid is a shock absorber of sorts for these wonderful little units. 

[KARNUT]

18 minutes ago, customboss said:

Until 2019 I was developing a better CVT fluid for Nissan JATCO made CVT's and determined their NS-3 fluid was as good as it got.  Your Honda is made in house and a good unit.  Because of the variation in designs I would use a fluid that is designed for the particular unit.

 

Amsoil, Redline, BG make great broad coverage CVT fluids and Subaru,Nissan,Honda have theirs made under contract by Idemitsu in Jeffersonville, IN.  If Lubrication Engineers made a CVT fluid that they recommend I would try that too. Ford has its CVT fluids made by Phillips which is the owner of Redline now. 

 

CVT fluid is a sacrificial fluid because of the balancing act between design issues, heat, friction reduction and traction COF specifically all these transmissions while sharing CVT are really different. 

 

Additives might quiet things but the manufacturer DOES NOT WARRANT use of additives for a reason, they can't be sure it won't interrupt this balancing act the fluid performs. Dealers aren't owned by OEM so they will try to make money off additives and gimmicks that can work or not work well. As long as the dealer covers your use of Wynns then if it works well go for it but it might better to use what Grumpy mentioned or your beloved Amsoil.  Whatever you use Stan change it frequently when you can tell it might be worn because the fluid is a shock absorber of sorts for these wonderful little units. 

Transmission fluid is on a 30K change interval which is part of wynns requirement for warranty. The engine is still on a 10K interval. It’s usually changed at 7K miles. It works out that way so I don’t go over miles on my trips. I’ve been using this dealership for 22 years since my wife bought her Acura intagra type r. They have a wall of glass looking into the shop. They use a TQ wrench on everything. 

[Black02Silverado]

I don't have much knowledge when it comes to CVT's but I did change out the CVT fluid on a friends Nissan.  It had 140k miles on it and I switched over to AMSOIL's CVT fluid and it seemed to make it smoother.  The individual was driving 75 miles to work every day and would rack up the miles fast since he worked most weekends as well. 

 

Talking to other AMSOIL dealers, I have not heard of any issues with anyone using AMSOIL's CVT.

[Grumpy Bear]

I wonder what the life span of a CVT is believed to be. It's design hints not as long as a clutched automatic. Anyone have an idea? 

[customboss]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 wonder what the life span of a CVT is believed to be. It's design hints not as long as a clutched automatic. Anyone have an idea? 

150,000 miles from my work for light duty but I have seen Jeep 4WD versions last 200K + .  When we say CVT there are a myriad of designs passenger care like but there are HD applications for earth works equipment, industrial stationary drives etc too.  

 

 

[KARNUT]

10 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I wonder what the life span of a CVT is believed to be. It's design hints not as long as a clutched automatic. Anyone have an idea? 

During my research they were not as reliable as regular transmissions. Nissan had problems early on. Supposed to better now. Even Honda had some problems initially. I normally would shy away. My mother in quit driving and gave the CRV to my wife with 6K miles on it. I’m gradually becoming a fan of the CRV. Road noise kept me away for Honda.

[diyer2]

Every Amsoil product I have used has performed better than the off the shelf products I have used for over 50 years.

Motor oil, motor was quieter, transmission fluid, smoother shifts, differential I'm assuming better without testing.

No testing done to prove my opinion but my hearing and butt sensor works well enough.

 

[customboss]

19 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

During my research they were not as reliable as regular transmissions. Nissan had problems early on. Supposed to better now. Even Honda had some problems initially. I normally would shy away. My mother in quit driving and gave the CRV to my wife with 6K miles on it. I’m gradually becoming a fan of the CRV. Road noise kept me away for Honda.

That’s exactly why I was researching help for JATCO. They improved cooling, oil pumps and band and pulley faces.
CVTs are either of these; 

pulley-based, toroidal and hydrostatic

[Grumpy Bear]

CVT Transmission Life Expectancy (and List of Cars That Have a CVT) - Spire Car

 

Found this interesting. 

[KARNUT]

15 minutes ago, customboss said:

That’s exactly why I was researching help for JATCO. They improved cooling, oil pumps and band and pulley faces.
CVTs are either of these; 

pulley-based, toroidal and hydrostatic

I have confidence in Honda. I was weirded out with the CVT. Even with my highest performance vehicles I would burp the throttle to let the transmission shift. Then I would gradually feed the throttle. My vehicles would last without breakage and still get the sensation of speed. Even though this CVT simulates shifting at half throttle it doesn’t at max throttle. It’s a totally different driving style for me. It took awhile to get used to a lower HP engine just screaming. I’m no stranger to high RPMs. This thing will live there through a whole passing event. I pass right now. The Honda sounds like you’re stepping on a cat’s tail. This being the second fluid change at 40K miles saw an improvement in CVT action. The only change was the addition of Wynns additive. There was a very lite shutter almost a hesitation a slow speeds it’s gone. Even the engine is quiet, no shaking at idle. The last time I experienced this was switching to Amsoil the first time. I honestly figured this was a gimmick that people used. After trading their vehicles in. The product gets forgotten and no one makes a claim. Like extended warranty. Most people never cash their remaining insurance when they trade. Or know they can.

[customboss]

34 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

CVT Transmission Life Expectancy (and List of Cars That Have a CVT) - Spire Car

 

Found this interesting. 

New automotive CVTs are very well built. The problem early on was trying to get weight down with transaxle and still build it strong enough for Americans who drive and forget. Not like Stan making changes at 30,000 which I applaud. 

[steelerdude15]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:07 AM, KARNUT said:

During my research they were not as reliable as regular transmissions. Nissan had problems early on. Supposed to better now. Even Honda had some problems initially. I normally would shy away. My mother in quit driving and gave the CRV to my wife with 6K miles on it. I’m gradually becoming a fan of the CRV. Road noise kept me away for Honda.

My fiancé owns a 2016 Nissan Sentra with a cvt. Her car just hit 100,000 miles and it still has the original cvt. We change the fluid every 30,000 miles in it only using Nissan’s fluid. Her brother is working his way to be a master tech for Nissan. He told me it’s better to change the fluids often in them because the transmissions heat up in city driving and it wears the fluid down. People don’t change their fluid and their cvts fail by 60,000 miles. That’s why there was a class action lawsuit against Nissan due to their cvts blowing up left and right because nobody changed their tranny fluid.

 

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance. Thats why it’s so important to change fluids, filters, etc on a regular basis because it can make a difference in terms of longevity.

 

Also, we haven’t used any additives when we changed the fluid in her cvt at any time.

[KARNUT]

4 minutes ago, steelerdude15 said:

My fiancé owns a 2016 Nissan Sentra with a cvt. Her car just hit 100,000 miles and it still has the original cvt. We change the fluid every 30,000 miles in it only using Nissan’s fluid. Her brother is working his way to be a master tech for Nissan. He told me it’s better to change the fluids often in them because the transmissions heat up in city driving and it wears the fluid down. People don’t change their fluid and their cvts fail by 60,000 miles. That’s why there was a class action lawsuit against Nissan due to their cvts blowing up left and right because nobody changed their tranny fluid.

 

Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance. Thats why it’s so important to change fluids, filters, etc on a regular basis because it can make a difference in terms of longevity.

 

Also, we haven’t used any additives when we changed the fluid in her cvt at any time.

Once I research the CVT I was surprised that Hondas first recommended change was 90K miles. I changed it at 7K miles because it was 6 years old and only driven in town. 2 years later at 40K miles I just changed again with the addition of Wynns. Only because it was backed by the dealer. The difference is noticeable. Very smooth.