Cold start one second long awful engine sound

[Pryme]

4 hours ago, Jettech1 said:

To get back to my original post here's what I've learned...  So a month ago, 1200 miles later.  In a last ditch effort to quiet that damn oil pump noise I threw in a bottle of lube gard.  After reading from many other forums it was touted as the elixir of oil additives that can actually help without clogging up your oil filter with PTFE and other solids.  I did some deep research on bobistheoilguy site as well concerning this additive before I took the leap.  Well.....I can say for a fact it did quiet it down.  Did it go silent?  No.  But it did lessen that awful start up noise from the oil pump big time.  I'm not due for an oil change (I do it every 5k miles) for probably another few months.  So hopefully it just keeps getting better and better.  At first no change, a week later, a little quieter, now 4 weeks later, much quieter.  So perhaps this stuff actually works. I have 5700 on it now, will need an oil change at 7500.  So hey, I'm trying here, but I can say for a fact that it did lessen the noise.  I'm hoping for zero noise in the next 1k miles but will report back as time and miles accumulate.

Very interesting. Keep us posted. I do hear the noise on start up but it’s just a split second sound. 

[Jettech1]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:58 PM, Pryme said:

Very interesting. Keep us posted. I do hear the noise on start up but it’s just a split second sound. 

Because this sound is caused by oil drain back and air in the pump, I doubt the lubegard will ever totally silence the noise.  Now has it made a small difference?  Yes it absolutely has, but will it get even quieter, time will tell.  I have my doubts, perhaps I'll just have to suck it up and live with it, of which I'm thinking will be the end result.  But I have a little hope, and hope is always great to have.  I will report back at the 2k mile of usage of the lubegard.  

 

I've stated this many times during this post and will say it again, the thing that messes with my brain is that there was ZERO noise during startup until I had the oil changed at 2500 miles.  That's the part that messes with me big time and the reason I've been on this mission to try and figure this whole puzzle out.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Jettech1

[richard wysong]

It would seem that the only thing that makes any sense is that the oil or the factory filter are some how different from what is available after. I wonder if anyone has the results of an oil analysis of the factory oil to compare with dealership Dexos and how could that prevent drain back? Does the oil have different anti foaming properties? That leaves the filter which is a more likely thing to affect drainback. How is the factory filter different from the filters from the dealer? I suppose 1 could go to the dealer and talk to the lube tech and ask that he save the OEM filter off a truck for you and cut it open and compare the guts to 1 off the shelf but the difference may not be visual. 1 other possibility is that draining the oil or changing the filter introduces air into the oil pump which becomes trapped and continues to migrate back to the pump during drainback. I wonder how they prime  the system during assembly. Possibly filling through a galley plug with pressurized oil?

Edited January 28, 2023 by richard wysong

[Jettech1]

6 hours ago, richard wysong said:

It would seem that the only thing that makes any sense is that the oil or the factory filter are some how different from what is available after. I wonder if anyone has the results of an oil analysis of the factory oil to compare with dealership Dexos and how could that prevent drain back? Does the oil have different anti foaming properties? That leaves the filter which is a more likely thing to affect drainback. How is the factory filter different from the filters from the dealer? I suppose 1 could go to the dealer and talk to the lube tech and ask that he save the OEM filter off a truck for you and cut it open and compare the guts to 1 off the shelf but the difference may not be visual. 1 other possibility is that draining the oil or changing the filter introduces air into the oil pump which becomes trapped and continues to migrate back to the pump during drainback. I wonder how they prime  the system during assembly. Possibly filling through a galley plug with pressurized oil?

As you stated the oil and filter are the only 2 variables here.  I've been thinking about trying the WIX gold filter (that is considered to be #1 on bobistheoilguy site) and mobil 1  5W-30.  If that doesn't quiet it down I'll try a 5W-40 hdeo oil.  I'm not going to give up quite yet.... and if you get a chance to talk to anyone about it at the dealership or wherever I would really appreciate it.  Here in Atlanta you can't hardly get near the dealership let alone talk to anyone.

[Pryme]

Remember newdude saying it typically happens under 32deg but you’re in hotlanta so I doubt that is applicable to you but in the north here that makes sense. I didn’t hear it either but I got the truck in aug when warm. Now it’s winter so I hear it for a split second. It will be interesting come March and especially April when it warms up again.  

[richard wysong]

And you would think if air got trapped in a blind galley that it would work its way out after a couple drain backs so that is probably not likely, also I don't think changing the oil would  affect anything north of the oil pump. NAPA oil filters are Wix filters rebranded

[the wanderer]

I would try HPL oil, it's best in class and they have a number of different lines depending on what additives you need. I'm running the PP PCMO 0w-30 in my 5.7 and my engine has never been quieter, just general valve train noise etc. It has gobs of moly, like past 800 PPM if I remember correctly.

 

Reason I'm suggesting it is you mentioned quieter noise running LubeGuard, which is basically moly in a bottle but far less of it than you get with HPL or even Redline. Many, many reports on ramforum showing how Redline (with high moly as well but less than HPL) has quieted their engine, and similar to you, moly takes 1000+ miles to truly work its magic, it's not instant. Since you hear it steadily decreasing, I'd say that follows the same pattern as others who have used Moly in one form or another.

 

HPL is very highly recommended on bitog as well, and the vendor is quite active there.

 

I'd use HPL over anything else at this point in my truck.

[Jettech1]

4 hours ago, the wanderer said:

I would try HPL oil, it's best in class and they have a number of different lines depending on what additives you need. I'm running the PP PCMO 0w-30 in my 5.7 and my engine has never been quieter, just general valve train noise etc. It has gobs of moly, like past 800 PPM if I remember correctly.

 

Reason I'm suggesting it is you mentioned quieter noise running LubeGuard, which is basically moly in a bottle but far less of it than you get with HPL or even Redline. Many, many reports on ramforum showing how Redline (with high moly as well but less than HPL) has quieted their engine, and similar to you, moly takes 1000+ miles to truly work its magic, it's not instant. Since you hear it steadily decreasing, I'd say that follows the same pattern as others who have used Moly in one form or another.

 

HPL is very highly recommended on bitog as well, and the vendor is quite active there.

 

I'd use HPL over anything else at this point in my truck.

Thank you for your reply and I totally agree with you.  Moly does play a huge role with lubrication. We will see what the lubegard does for now.  I wish I had an internal breakdown of that engine to see if the loss of oil in the pump could be caused by a faulty or piece of crap drain back valve in the oil filter.  Do you happen to know?

[the wanderer]

17 hours ago, Jettech1 said:

Thank you for your reply and I totally agree with you.  Moly does play a huge role with lubrication. We will see what the lubegard does for now.  I wish I had an internal breakdown of that engine to see if the loss of oil in the pump could be caused by a faulty or piece of crap drain back valve in the oil filter.  Do you happen to know?

 

One tick I get my hemi definitely appears to be oil filter related. I only use royal purple and/or fram ultra for multiple reasons, including that they're fully synthetic media, and have both high filter and high flow rate at the same time - and to your question, they both have a silicone anti drain back valve which is widely recognized as a better option than plain rubber.

 

In the winter if I don't get the oil hot enough (at least 55 C) and walk away for about an hour and half, there is a good chance I get a dry lifter tick for 1 second or so due to the ADBV letting oil flow back into the filter. I've had the most success using those 2 filters mentioned above, standard mopar filter seems to make it worse. Near the end of my oil change it might get worse as well. And since running HPL oil I've yet to hear it, but again this is all circumstantial and I  don't know for sure how much any of that is affecting my bleed down tick. Just that it's been far far worse a few years ago and now it's much less to the point where I've yet to hear it in the last 4 months of autumn/winter.