OCI, not when but why?

Grumpy Bear · June 12

On 5/23/2024 at 9:14 AM, KARNUT said:

When the manufacturer sets the maintenance schedule most people feel it’s the rule.

Sadly true. Fact is the OEM is counting on that level of consumer trust (gullibility). This oil market is flooded with agenda-based information propagated by manufactures and legislators and environmentalist. Over the years I've posted to this site I've provided links that state these goals and not one of them is based in the machines best interest. They are no longer vailed and boldly state the goal is lower waste production and higher fuel economy. This method accomplished neither but does generate repeat sales of vehicles. The real goal Your manufactures Boad Members thank you all for the bonus checks.

KARNUT · June 12

17 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Sadly true. Fact is the OEM is counting on that level of consumer trust (gullibility). This oil market is flooded with agenda-based information propagated by manufactures and legislators and environmentalist. Over the years I've posted to this site I've provided links that state these goals and not one of them is based in the machines best interest. They are no longer vailed and boldly state the goal is lower waste production and higher fuel economy. This method accomplished neither but does generate repeat sales of vehicles. The real goal Your manufactures Boad Members thank you all for the bonus checks.

The problem is when the two longest lasting vehicles manufacturers, Honda and Toyota say you can go 10K miles between oil changes you tend to believe them. When we first got the CRV 4 years ago I took it to the dealer. They put a sticker in the window for the next oil change. It was set for 5K miles. I asked the service writer about it and got a blank stare and said 10K was fine. They sell an additive by Wynns that gives additional engine and transmission warranty. No stipulation on more frequent service. Toyota with my Camry was adamant they want to see you every 5K miles to check out the vehicle. But insisted no oil changes but for every 10K miles. In contrast my wife’s Genesis I took it in at 5K miles the first time. The manual says 7500 miles. At the time they used a blend. They insisted that I needed to go by the severe service schedule. That was just shy of 4K miles. With the warranty I followed the recommendation. Still do 13 years later. I go 5K now in the rest.

Grumpy Bear · June 12

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

The problem is when the two longest lasting vehicles manufacturers, Honda and Toyota say you can go 10K miles between oil changes you tend to believe them.

Yep, most people do. I agree.

Warranty Extension: MIL Comes On With DTCs P0301 thru P0304 (nhtsa.gov)

MC-10091611-5448.pdf (nhtsa.gov)

KARNUT · June 12

My father in law’s Odyssey started using oil at 100K miles. He had it a number of years. He traded it in. My daughter bought a 2016 odyssey I used for trips. I’m sure she went by the oil monitor. I got it with 127k miles. I did a couple quick changes now I go 5K miles. I traded her a low mileage CRV. I had the dealer Wynns program with it. I told her half the oil monitor if she wanted it to last. Then I don’t pester, you can only push so much. The odyssey is approaching 150K miles.

Grumpy Bear · June 12

Grumpy Bear · June 13

@customboss will enjoy this technical missive. Why carbon sticks to the backs of intake valve and why a catch can won't help.

Turbo Fuel Stratified Injection (TFSI) & Direct Port Injection Carbon Build-up Problem - Fuel Tech Experts - Lifting the Lid on Fuel & Oil Additive Market

Grumpy Bear · June 14

15 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

@customboss will enjoy this technical missive. Why carbon sticks to the backs of intake valve and why a catch can won't help.

Turbo Fuel Stratified Injection (TFSI) & Direct Port Injection Carbon Build-up Problem - Fuel Tech Experts - Lifting the Lid on Fuel & Oil Additive Market

Not a trick. An interesting article.

Grumpy Bear · June 14

On 6/12/2024 at 12:19 PM, KARNUT said:

My father in law’s Odyssey started using oil at 100K miles. He had it a number of years. He traded it in. My daughter bought a 2016 odyssey I used for trips. I’m sure she went by the oil monitor. I got it with 127k miles. I did a couple quick changes now I go 5K miles. I traded her a low mileage CRV. I had the dealer Wynns program with it. I told her half the oil monitor if she wanted it to last. Then I don’t pester, you can only push so much. The odyssey is approaching 150K miles.

I've been out of the business since I retired at 55. 15 years plus now. In that time, I've seen more change in lubrication "knowledge" and "execution" than I saw in the 35 years I worked around it. I've also witnessed the decline, no, pretty much total collapse of personal knowledge on the entire automotive experience. What was 'basic knowledge' in my time is a foreigner's language to the next few generations. Then I witnessed the industry and regulators take advantage of that waning interest to advance agendas and pad profits to the detriment of machine and man. I watched some of the brightest people in the field give in and fall in line. I watched people pay the price for their ignorance and an unwillingness for those few left to raise their hand or voice to help or at least offer to, a fellow human. I've watched ignorance become so enamored with itself it becomes offended at the thought it could learn anything from anybody.

Any yes Stan, there is only so much you can do before the person you are trying to save from drowning takes you down with them.

Edited June 16 by Grumpy Bear

KARNUT · June 14

43 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I've been out of the business since I retired at 55. 15 years plus now. In that time, I've seen more change in lubrication "knowledge" and "execution" that I saw in the 35 years I worked around it. I've also witnessed the decline, no, pretty much total collapse of personal knowledge on the entire automotive experience. What was 'basic knowledge' in my time is a foreigner's language to the next few generations. Then I witnessed the industry and regulators take advantage of that waning interest to advance agendas and pad profits to the detriment of machine and man. I watched some of the brightest people in the field give in and fall in line. I watched people pay the price for their ignorance and an unwillingness for those few left to raise their hand or voice to help or at least offer to, a fellow human. I've watched ignorance become so enamored with itself it becomes offended at the thought it could learn anything from anybody.

Any yes Stan, there is only so much you can do before the person you are trying to save from drowning takes you down with them.

My tongue bleeds when I’m around some of my Grandchildren. I bite down on it so hard. I slipped the other day when one grandson stated during his shift delivering pizza he went into hiding. He didn’t want to be asked to help while waiting for a delivery. He makes good money delivering, not much otherwise. I said to him that makes you the crowd, nobody special. If you want to advance become sought out you do the opposite. You get in the owners face and ask to learn things. What I can do to help. I told him the story how I was hired as a backup driver for a garbage company. Six months later I was general manager. 18 months later I started my own company. 2 years later I sold it. And invested into our new family business. At 58 I retired. All because I asked what I can do to help. Never be satisfied, always be willing to learn. I was more motivated because I had a family. I tell them all you want to be a successful make yourself wanted. They’ll advance you a the speed of light. Upper management at Kroger makes 6 figures. That’s just running one store. Anyone get hired there.

garagerog · June 15

Stan, I empathize with you as I'm much in the same boat with one of my grandsons. I have 3 of them, the two oldest, each around 18 yrs old and their ambitions are light years apart. My daughter's son is my worry as I believe his only ambition is to become an "Island Boy." He never returned to class after the Covid remote learning fiasco and as such is now a HS dropout. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't listen to me as I think he considers me a hardass because several years ago he wanted me to take him to Toys'R'Us to buy a video game. I told him he needed some fresh air thus I would be happy to buy him a football or a ball and bat, but not a video game, he wasn't interested in my idea then, so not much chance he would listen to me now I suspect. My only hope for him is that my daughter lays down the law insisting that he get his GED and then promptly drags his ass into a recruiting office. On the other hand, I couldn't be prouder of the other 18 yr. old grandson, my son's, son. He lives on Kodiak Island, took welding in HS and had his Alaska welding certification before he turned 16. I saw him at Christmas and asked him which he liked the best, stik or wire. He said I can't answer because I like them both. He spent the last 2 summers working on his other grandpa's fishing boat, made enough money to buy a brand new dirt bike, a new Benelli for waterfowl, and a used Tacoma p/u, plus a good sum he's putting towards diesel mechanic's trade school this fall. Last I heard he was trying to get his foot in the door at a boat builder for this summer's job. Pretty sure as employable as he's making himself that he'll have a bright future. Difference I see in the 2 boys is the father. I think my son has been harder on his boy's than I was on him, but I'm sure he would argue that to no end .

diyer2 · June 16

Play poker with a woman and her sisters kid is 52 years old and lives in her basement rent free. Mom paid for his college but he didn't graduate.

He doesn't work unless he wants to.

She won't say anything to her sister but it has become a financial burden. This is the sisters fault.

Grumpy Bear · June 19

Oh, this is interesting:

[quote]In view of the complex processes of lubricant degradation and especially in ICEs, the effect of engine oil degradation on friction and wear performance, consequently fuel efficiency and engine part durability, is usually not considered during engine development. [close quote]

Source? Comprehensive assessment of oil degradation patterns in petrol and diesel engines observed in a field test with passenger cars – Conventional oil analysis and fuel dilution - ScienceDirect

What was that about the trusting OEM engineers?

Edited June 19 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · August 14

Dizzy!

The OEM calls for a 5W30 Dexos1Gen2 oil. Energy conserving. Meaning low HTHS viscosity. 2.9 cP.

She uses oil so there is blowby and that keeps the fuel dilution off zero but at 3.5% there is another issue and I'm calling it the High-Pressure Fuel Pump seal.... again. The trims are LOW and canceling each other smartly, trending zero. Does that eliminate an injector? No, but it does cast a large shadow on it. The rings have been done in this motor for a few years now and over 100K miles. So, we have some history to work with. Zero trims, success getting too near zero with just the pump replacement even with the ring issues. Let's try that again. Only sooner this time and not get distracted with a 1 Abs unit of Nitration and a laundry list of 'what if'. Could I be wrong. Sure, but that isn't the direction of this post.

The direction is VISCOSITY. I chose this 15W50 not so much to slow the consumption but to PROTECT the motor from just this type of issue. Fact is, if the cylinder is polished this oil would make it worse.

The result of 3.5% fuel dilution is a reduction in viscosity. At least that is what the notes say. But there is another player here that not only influenced viscosity but OXIDATION as well. That is the make-up oil was a Red Line HP 10W40. About a half a quart added 4 ounces at a time over four segments and no, I'm not integrating it to get that exact. It would blend about a quarter point of the loss. The oxidation increase is almost all esters from the Red Line. The TBN is strong and the motor safe. Fact is the HTHS is still high enough (based on the dilution loss) to still cover the heavy W40's.

The low wear metals, even iron given the dilution is quite good.

Where would this be if the oil was indeed a 5W30 meeting the OEM spec? Well, the viscosity would have started HALF that now charged and dropped to a SAE 16 or 20 on HTHS. Look back on her early samples. Wear was not good. 7-30 parts iron.

I'll put a pump in it but it could run like this quite a long while yet. Nothing is eating itself. Lord people, it has a quarter million miles on it.

Edited August 14 by Grumpy Bear

PunchT37 · August 14

I`m very old school. My OCI is the dipstick. Then comes my eyes, my nose, then my fingers. My brain kinda kicks in on my vehicles that sit most days in the year. I change it after 8 mos or so,no matter how little miles.

Mileage wise, I think 4600 is my record. I am also a "thicky". It has worked well for me all this time. I`m 61.

I run all my engines to the red line. Many times. I have never lost a bearing. BUT, I don`t rev any engine when cold.

I started mechanic work for a living in 1985. So, I`m set in my ways.

Grumpy Bear · August 15

13 hours ago, PunchT37 said:

I`m very old school. My OCI is the dipstick. Then comes my eyes, my nose, then my fingers. My brain kinda kicks in on my vehicles that sit most days in the year. I change it after 8 mos or so,no matter how little miles.

Mileage wise, I think 4600 is my record. I am also a "thicky". It has worked well for me all this time. I`m 61.

I run all my engines to the red line. Many times. I have never lost a bearing. BUT, I don`t rev any engine when cold.

I started mechanic work for a living in 1985. So, I`m set in my ways.