OCI, not when but why?

MaverickZ71 · January 12

55 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Changed oil today in Dizzy. What to guess what I loaded?

Very interested in Valvoline Restore and Protect. Keep us posted, Grump. Did you use a Purolator PureOne? Curious how Valvoline says R&R treatment will not clog oil filters, while HPL says Clean40/30 may require the use of a non-restrictive oil filter or short-changing the oil interval. Happy 2024.

Grumpy Bear · January 12

44 minutes ago, MaverickZ71 said:

Very interested in Valvoline Restore and Protect. Keep us posted, Grump. Did you use a Purolator PureOne? Curious how Valvoline says R&R treatment will not clog oil filters, while HPL says Clean40/30 may require the use of a non-restrictive oil filter or short-changing the oil interval. Happy 2024.

Yes, a Pure One. This motor has been on HPL 40EC for some time. But I will keep tabs. Build thread will contain the details.

VicFirth · January 12

14 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Changed oil today in Dizzy. What to guess what I loaded?

It's getting some backlash on another forum. Basically they're claiming Valvoline is just a little blender and can't innovate or that it's all marketing. My rebuttal to that is Valvoline actually has an engine lab that can run all ASTM engine tests. If Amsoil and HPL can make high end lubricants, why can't Valvoline? Obviously Valvoline operates in a different market (non-boutique) but being the additive companies appear to be the brains behind most lubricants, I don't see the difference.

Edited January 12 by VicFirth

Grumpy Bear · January 12

1 hour ago, VicFirth said:

Basically they're claiming Valvoline is just a little blender

Have you noticed this trend wherein someone says a thing is true and people follow it like sheep? One word "Cancelling" is the world's new pastime. Claims pass for facts. Same proof mom used to use when we were kids. "Cause I said so!"

Ashland Chemical spun off Valvoline May 2017 which is purchased in 1949. 2016 Valvoline earned 37% of Ashland's revenue. They've been around since 1866. In 2022 Saudi Aramco bought the lubricant division for $2.65 billion.

Do I Have a Lanham Act Claim Against My Competitor for False Advertising? (bonalaw.com)

The law Mobil used to sue Castrol over the use of the term Synthetic. Valvoline's claim of 100% deposit removal would be actionable by a competitor if proved untrue. It's a pretty specific claim. Can't imagine XOM would not take a bite at that apple, can you?

Vic. People will say anything and more boldly so if they feel there will be no consequences. You watch the news, right?

Edited January 12 by Grumpy Bear

customboss · January 12

39 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

In 2022 Saudi Aramco bought the lubricant division for $2.65 billion.

The international division ( VALVOLINE GLOBAL PRODUCTS ) not the US domestic Valvoline division. Agreed, facts matter.

The Saudi Arabian Oil Company (“Aramco”) today announced the signing of an equity purchase agreement to acquire Valvoline Inc. (NYSE: VVV) global products business (“Valvoline Global Products” or “VGP”) for US$2.65 billion. The transaction is subject to certain customary adjustments set forth in the equity purchase agreement.

Aramco agrees to acquire Valvoline’s Global Products Business ...

aramco.com› en › news-media › news › 2022 › aramco-agrees-to-acquire-valvoline-global-prod

Grumpy Bear · January 12

I hope this makes sense. There are facts that matter and those that don't. Rods for instance, they are made from many materials and many versions of those materials. Everyone has an application it is suited for. There are dozens of manufactures. Many origins of materials. Types of equipment they are made on. Countless designs.

Those are all facts. Fact is, for a Briggs and Straton 3hp tiller motor most of them don't matter. For a 12,000 hp top fuel motor, most of those also don't matter. Picking the right one for the job matters. Bill Miller is a small timer in the big picture, but Mahle has nothing in their catalogue that will go toe to toe with his Top Alcohol Rods. Arguing what manufacture or corporate raider bought who.... Who has the largest sales? Using those as a basis for making an engineering decision is nuts. Just flag waving nonsense.

The job of marketing is to make what is nothing, seem like something in a field where most differences are distinctions without one. Only the first to present something truly new and head and shoulders above the crowd has an advantage and then for only as long as it takes him to be copied. Even Micky Mouse is fair game these days. Cut through the crap to the facts THAT MATTER for your APPLICATION. (yes, that is a raised voice)

Oil is a tool. How many you have in your toolbox depends on your need. How you use them is not a war I intend on not having. I've been known to stack wrenches when I don't have a proper breaker bar.

Edited January 12 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · January 13

Understanding How Engines Consume Oil (machinerylubrication.com)

Now there is a gem. Scroll down to Oil Change Interval Effect. Pay attention to the chart. Read it carefully.

Oh, go ahead, read it all. The whole article.

Question.

1.) Why is it that the man who never played a down is an expert on why Justin Jefferson should have caught that pass?

2.) How can a Senator not making command decisions and not answering for them have an opinion on what SHOULD be?

3.) Do those in the public eye not know that someone is recording every word they say and saying they didn't say the thing they said can't be walked back with a denial?

4.) Is a person who is constantly a victim smart enough to lead a dog to a bowl of water?

5.) Why all the questions?

To cause pause on the information one accepts as fact.

Give this chart five minutes and ask yourself what effect your base oil blend has on OCI. Ask how on earth any manufacture can give a set interval. I don't know much but I know what a stupid thought is.

Edited January 13 by Grumpy Bear

VicFirth · January 14

I'm hoping we'll see a VOA of the R&P oil soon. Curious what the virgin oxidation reading is. There are a few patents you can read from when they developed the Premium Blue Restore. For that they used high solvency base oils. That was the approach for that oil.

Edited January 14 by VicFirth

diyer2 · January 14

"One can conclude that as oil ages, the effects of aging (high soot, loss of dispersancy, additive depletion, insolubles, viscosity-index shear, dirt load, etc."

Couldn't have said it better. Oil changes, well worth the cost if you want longevity. I'll buy oil, not motors.

diyer2 · January 14

I think I have posted this before.

I was an operating engineer for a while. The company bought two pieces of identical new equipment. Diesels of course, 0ne was an oil user, the other wasn't.

Roll of the dice. But I believe shorter OCI's help.

KARNUT · January 14

On 1/12/2024 at 9:05 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

Have you noticed this trend wherein someone says a thing is true and people follow it like sheep? One word "Cancelling" is the world's new pastime. Claims pass for facts. Same proof mom used to use when we were kids. "Cause I said so!"

Ashland Chemical spun off Valvoline May 2017 which is purchased in 1949. 2016 Valvoline earned 37% of Ashland's revenue. They've been around since 1866. In 2022 Saudi Aramco bought the lubricant division for $2.65 billion.

Do I Have a Lanham Act Claim Against My Competitor for False Advertising? (bonalaw.com)

The law Mobil used to sue Castrol over the use of the term Synthetic. Valvoline's claim of 100% deposit removal would be actionable by a competitor if proved untrue. It's a pretty specific claim. Can't imagine XOM would not take a bit at that apple, can you?

Vic. People will say anything and more boldly so if they feel there will be no consequences. You watch the news, right?

Sorry I had a post arrive here when I was actually replying to another.

Edited January 14 by KARNUT

KARNUT · January 14

18 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

I think I have posted this before.

I was an operating engineer for a while. The company bought two pieces of identical new equipment. Diesels of course, 0ne was an oil user, the other wasn't.

Roll of the dice. But I believe shorter OCI's help.

I agree. I’ve actually had two oil burners from new. They wouldn’t concern me as much as a new engine developing a using problem a few thousand miles later. The oil burners I had never got worse. They were during my extended Amsoil days in the 90s.

Grumpy Bear · January 14

3 hours ago, diyer2 said:

"One can conclude that as oil ages, the effects of aging (high soot, loss of dispersancy, additive depletion, insolubles, viscosity-index shear, dirt load, etc."

Couldn't have said it better. Oil changes, well worth the cost if you want longevity. I'll buy oil, not motors.

George Carlin once said, speaking about State Moto's, "Somewhere between Live Free or Die and Famous Potatoes, the truth lies."

It's the nearly unfathomable dynamics that surround the OCI that are at the heart of OCI confusion and thus difference of opinions. Same OCI's produce such different results spread over millions of units and the experiences and stories that leads to those opinions based on what people feel about those experiences and not the oil data generated as most of the time that data was never collected and looked at. Most of the time the motor was never looked 'In to" or disassembled so the 'feeling' one has about its health varies with as much distance between those opinions as there is between the ocean's boarders. Thus, my comment earlier about the guy who doesn't look for termites doesn't think he has them no matter what the truth is.

Loren, my buddy in Texas thought his 350 SBC ran like a top after not changing oil in it EVER in 100K. It couldn't have been in worse shape without rods hanging of the block. Just an example. He was adding a quart every fuel stop and the inside of that motor was cast in sludge. Channels in muck for the rockers to move and the rods to swing. YIKES! Yea we goad him into a tear down after goading him into an oil change that make it leak something awful.

All of this leads to broad generalizations that tend to lean in the right direction but only in a way cats are herded. Amazingly this works with such a high frequency it lays myth into stone. Just as it would as if it rained every time I wore a blue suit.

Mud in the water is just muddy water.

I'll buy oil, not motors. It's a good moto if you never sample. One that works.

Edited January 14 by Grumpy Bear