Crossmember won't stay tight after 4" lift

[lschafroth]

I have a 2015 GMC Sierra 1500 All-Terrain.  It is the crew cab, 4x4.  I installed the Belltech 4" lift with their lifting struts and rear blocks. It came with their own upper control arms.  I have since replaced their control arms with the Kryptonite arms since the Belltech's had issues with very premature failure of the ball joints.

 

When I tighten the crossmember solid, it rides very smooth with ZERO vibration.  It takes about 4 days and the crossmember is loose again. Then the vibration is back and the grinding and noises as I turn. I first thought it was the steering rack making all the noise. Once I tighten the crossmember again the sound is gone, and everything is factory smooth.

 

I know there is a bulletin for the crossmember being loose and it says 54lbs then 110 degrees. I have done that many times and the last time I tightened the living crap out of it with a long bar. My guess is well over 200ft lbs.

 

Any suggestions before I weld the crossmember into place?

 

Lannie

 

PS Running 3015/55r20 Toyo Open Country R/T tires so yes it has oversized tires.

 

[discgolf01]

Blue loctite?

 

Also, check these bolts are not designed to be a "torque to yield" bolt - meaning when it reaches torque is actually is causing the bolt to plastically deform, you can't reuse those.

Edited October 25, 2022 by discgolf01

[lschafroth]

17 hours ago, discgolf01 said:

Blue loctite?

 

Also, check these bolts are not designed to be a "torque to yield" bolt - meaning when it reaches torque is actually is causing the bolt to plastically deform, you can't reuse those.

 

I have tried Loctite and locking washers. Nothing works. Maybe it is the bolts. I cannot find the bolts online anywhere.  The parts diagrams only show the crossmember and body mount bolts etc. Have yet to find replacements. Was trying to avoid going to the dealer to order.  I will get new ones and try that.

 

Thanks!

 

Lannie

[lschafroth]

5 minutes ago, lschafroth said:

 

I have tried Loctite and locking washers. Nothing works. Maybe it is the bolts. I cannot find the bolts online anywhere.  The parts diagrams only show the crossmember and body mount bolts etc. Have yet to find replacements. Was trying to avoid going to the dealer to order.  I will get new ones and try that.

 

Thanks!

 

Lannie

 

I think I just found them:

M14x2x87 Front Crossmember Bolt - GM (11548233)

[lschafroth]

PIT5533A Creek Click Pop Crack Type Noise From Front Suspension/Frame Area While Making Turns (nhtsa.gov)

 

Correction 1:

To correct this concern loosen and then re-torque the four front frame crossmember bolts/nuts:

1. First Pass: 70 Nm (52 lb ft)

2. Final Pass: 110 degrees

 

So, to clarify and not mess up the new bolts. Put blue Loctite on them, tighten to 52lbs with torque wrench. Then tighten 110 degrees further?  My wrench is too long to rotate 110 degrees without hitting the floor. If I have the front on jack stands, will that mess with the geometry when tightening them?  The reason I ask is the longer wrench is the only one I can turn 110 degrees and even then, I have to use my foot on the wrench while holding on to the running boards. lol If I had a lift, I could probably use my body weight, but I don't have that luxury.

 

Lannie

[discgolf01]

6 hours ago, lschafroth said:

PIT5533A Creek Click Pop Crack Type Noise From Front Suspension/Frame Area While Making Turns (nhtsa.gov)

 

Correction 1:

To correct this concern loosen and then re-torque the four front frame crossmember bolts/nuts:

1. First Pass: 70 Nm (52 lb ft)

2. Final Pass: 110 degrees

 

So, to clarify and not mess up the new bolts. Put blue Loctite on them, tighten to 52lbs with torque wrench. Then tighten 110 degrees further?  My wrench is too long to rotate 110 degrees without hitting the floor. If I have the front on jack stands, will that mess with the geometry when tightening them?  The reason I ask is the longer wrench is the only one I can turn 110 degrees and even then, I have to use my foot on the wrench while holding on to the running boards. lol If I had a lift, I could probably use my body weight, but I don't have that luxury.

 

Lannie

 

Whelp, you could always try red loctite if you're feeling bold/confident.

 

The steps GM noted to torque this bolt do indicate the bolt is a torque-to-yield bolt (initial torque set, then based on angle as final fasten), but the GM bulletin you linked to should have also said something like "you cannot reuse the original bolts once loose" or "one time use only bolts" - but it didn't which is strange.

 

If the lock washers you were using had a larger diameter that the bolt head/nut, that would distribute the force over a larger area and you may not be getting the actual clamp load needed at the bolt head.  I actually used to be an engineer at GM way back in the day and would not add any additional hardware (like star, conical, or lock washers) to a joint that didn't have them in the original design.  Just a thought.

 

You could also try nylon lock nuts on the back side, but I am not sure if there would be an interaction issue there if you used loctite contacting the nylon at the same time, something to research.

 

As for the 110 degrees, just get the first pass torque achieved, then use a paint pen/magic marker to note start position across the bolt head and frame, then make a mark on the frame where 110 degrees would be, then go as far as you can with the torque wrench, remove it, reset it while keeping an eye on when the paint pen mark on the bolt head reaches the final 110 degree position, even if it takes 2 or 3 times pulling the wrench off and you can go as slow as you want.

Edited October 26, 2022 by discgolf01

[lschafroth]

Thank you! Very good information. The bolts will be here in a week or so. I guess if they are one time use bolt why not use red loctite? 

[discgolf01]

9 hours ago, lschafroth said:

Thank you! Very good information. The bolts will be here in a week or so. I guess if they are one time use bolt why not use red loctite? 

 

 

Whelp, red loctite is technically supposed to be permanent, and if there is something else going on with that joint that is causing it to loosen and it happens again (like the frame or cross member deforming), you may be forced to have to cut off the bolts if you can't break the joint.  Which could be a major PITA due to tool access.

 

 

[lschafroth]

14 hours ago, discgolf01 said:

 

 

Whelp, red loctite is technically supposed to be permanent, and if there is something else going on with that joint that is causing it to loosen and it happens again (like the frame or cross member deforming), you may be forced to have to cut off the bolts if you can't break the joint.  Which could be a major PITA due to tool access.

 

 

 

I agree, the more I thought about it, the more I decided I will stick with blue.  I'm pretty sure its from my reusing the bolts when I should have used new ones. With the lift or level, it probably puts more stress on that area too so maybe that is causing some of the movement.  If the new bolts dont fix it, then I will weld it in place with beads that can be cut and ground later if I ever need to remove it for some reason.

[16LT4]

Easy way to tell if the bolts are actually single-use is to check a torque table for that size fastener, and see if the torque applied puts it into the plastic range.

 

Red loctite is easy to remove... with a little heat.  Hit the fastener with a MAP torque and an impact gun (or an 18" breaker bar) and the fastener will spin off.  In my younger days, I often used only Red (not knowing the difference), and never needed heat nor impact to remove them, without issue.

 

That said, try the Orange loctite: the strength of Red, but the ease of removal of Blue.  Loctite only works on clean fasteners; if they have even a hint of oil, grease, or other residue (such as from sliding a cleaned fastener through a dirty cross member), the Loctite won't function properly.

 

The fasteners loosening so quickly, however seems like a greater concern: they shouldn't.  They may not be able to handle the added stress of the lift, and require a grade 8 or 10.9/12.9 to remain elastic.

Edited October 28, 2022 by 16LT4