Which oil filter, not so simple!

[customboss]

4 hours ago, Pryme said:

My Chinese is a little rusty. Lol 

Pryme read the article I posted from work in 1985  earlier in this thread and it will answer your questions in English. 

 

Automotive full flow filters companies decide what particles they test for and the testing is expensive so getting the data for exact particle size is needed to compare apples to apples as I stated earlier. 

 

Wix sharing 2 and 20 um is shared based on the application and that engines needs and what WIX wants to spend. 

 

 

[diyer2]

I have used the cheapest oil filter to the not cheap on a variety of vehicles without an issue. Which oil filter? The one that fits. Adjust quality by OCI length.

It is simple.

 

[Pryme]

59 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

I have used the cheapest oil filter to the not cheap on a variety of vehicles without an issue. Which oil filter? The one that fits. Adjust quality by OCI length.

It is simple.

 

The best filter is the one that’s changed frequently. I don’t go more than 4k on my truck just because it’s not driven a ton of miles. I just turned 9k miles and I’ve had it since Aug of 22. 

[Grumpy Bear]

On 9/26/2022 at 10:04 AM, Pryme said:

How often do you guys replace air filter?

 

 

 

Circling back....

 

Remember carburetors? When the filter got dirty the motor ran rich. There wasn't any O2 feedback correction going on and fuel delivery was on pressure differential. All injection systems being used today have O2 feedback correction. Fuel trims. Until the filter gets so dirty those trims run out of range the Lamba is held tightly and reliant on the ECU mapping that is pegged to a target adjusted by several self-correcting parameters. It has allot of range. This isn't as big a deal as it was during the days of Dp fuel delivery. Not as far as O2 and emissions control. It will, however hinder WOT throttle power at peak air demand. 

 

I drive about 25K a year and replace it right after the spring planting and after the fall harvest season. Sometimes just the latter. Depends on how much dust they are kicking up in the spring. Lots of No-Till-Drill planting these days. Gives me a chance to empty the bug trap. I don't live on nor drive on dirt or gravel roads.  YMMV

[Grumpy Bear]

16 minutes ago, Pryme said:

The best filter is the one that’s changed frequently. I don’t go more than 4k on my truck just because it’s not driven a ton of miles. I just turned 9k miles and I’ve had it since Aug of 22. 

 

 

GM did a wear study decades ago on this topic. (Machinery Lubrication Source)

 

 

The example on this graph shows two filters whose Beta = 75 have ratings of 45 and 10 microns and relative engine lives of 8 and 3. Then 8/3 = 2.6666..... X longer engine life.  

 

Catch. Filter never goes into bypass. Which is will on a cold day. Part of the reason GM increased the bypass setting on the PF63 (E). The operator has allot to do with this and it is not 'one and done'. A bypass opening on a new or relatively new filter has zero impact. Only a caked filter. 

 

So yes, how often matters; but so does filter efficiency. And when you start. Putting a fine filter on a 200,000 mile motor that has never had one won't get you the result. Right? 

 

The Beta = 75 number can be hard to find. But you can get an idea indirectly by the ISO 4548-12 number which is pegged to 20 microns. The higher that number the higher the efficiency. 

 

Catch to that as well. Not everyone pegs to 20 microns. Mobil 1 for example pegs to 30 microns. Also they are allowed to round to the whole value. So when it says 99% it means 98.6 or Beta = 75. Just read "the fine print' carefully and think. 

 

Comparative example. WIX is 95% at 20 microns. Mobil 1 says 99% at 30 microns. Purolator Pure One, FRAM XG and AMSOIL Ea say 99% at 20 microns. Pretty easy to figure out which ones are more efficient filters. 

[Pryme]

24 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

 

GM did a wear study decades ago on this topic. (Machinery Lubrication Source)

 

 

The example on this graph shows two filters whose Beta = 75 have ratings of 45 and 10 microns and relative engine lives of 8 and 3. Then 8/3 = 2.6666..... X longer engine life.  

 

Catch. Filter never goes into bypass. Which is will on a cold day. Part of the reason GM increased the bypass setting on the PF63 (E). The operator has allot to do with this and it is not 'one and done'. A bypass opening on a new or relatively new filter has zero impact. Only a caked filter. 

 

So yes, how often matters; but so does filter efficiency. And when you start. Putting a fine filter on a 200,000 mile motor that has never had one won't get you the result. Right? 

 

The Beta = 75 number can be hard to find. But you can get an idea indirectly by the ISO 4548-12 number which is pegged to 20 microns. The higher that number the higher the efficiency. 

 

Catch to that as well. Not everyone pegs to 20 microns. Mobil 1 for example pegs to 30 microns. Also they are allowed to round to the whole value. So when it says 99% it means 98.6 or Beta = 75. Just read "the fine print' carefully and think. 

 

Comparative example. WIX is 95% at 20 microns. Mobil 1 says 99% at 30 microns. Purolator Pure One, FRAM XG and AMSOIL Ea say 99% at 20 microns. Pretty easy to figure out which ones are more efficient filters. 

What is the pf63 rated at again? I have two on the shelf to use. 

[MORSNO]

1 hour ago, Pryme said:

What is the pf63 rated at again? I have two on the shelf to use. 

 

30 micron

[customboss]

On 4/2/2024 at 7:54 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

Only a caked filter. 

 

Hydraulic or liquid filters do not " cake " only air filters. That's why liquid filters as we know them are most efficient at initial use.  The media is used to change oil or liquid flow to capture trash in the media. Once that media is holding trash the media cannot change oil flow as efficiently. 

 

Efficiency is one measure, life and capacity are a whole different measure. 

 

I think the HUBB filter using a probably 50 um outer filter and the internal surgical filter that may be 10 um capable is a good mix of stainless steel media when most other cleanable stainless steel media filters use just that 50 um outer and maybe employ a magnet and or another cross section of screen at 50 um again.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3 by customboss

[Grumpy Bear]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:31 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

 

K&P is the one I used.  K and P Engineering

Cleaned it with brake cleaner each oil change. 5K OCI's. 

 

BTW this is a 35-micron ABSOLUTE filter mesh. 

[Grumpy Bear]

21 hours ago, MORSNO said:

 

30 micron

 

At a Beta Ratio = 75 for use in the chart above the PF63 is roughly 23/24 microns. 

[customboss]

On 4/2/2024 at 7:13 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Circling back....

 

Remember carburetors? When the filter got dirty the motor ran rich. There wasn't any O2 feedback correction going on and fuel delivery was on pressure differential. All injection systems being used today have O2 feedback correction. Fuel trims. Until the filter gets so dirty those trims run out of range the Lamba is held tightly and reliant on the ECU mapping that is pegged to a target adjusted by several self-correcting parameters. It has allot of range. This isn't as big a deal as it was during the days of Dp fuel delivery. Not as far as O2 and emissions control. It will, however hinder WOT throttle power at peak air demand. 

 

I drive about 25K a year and replace it right after the spring planting and after the fall harvest season. Sometimes just the latter. Depends on how much dust they are kicking up in the spring. Lots of No-Till-Drill planting these days. Gives me a chance to empty the bug trap. I don't live on nor drive on dirt or gravel roads.  YMMV

Oh if the feedback system was perfect! You are correct it’s a great system but I prefer frequent unrestricted clean air flow  from a cheap air filter changed often.
 

Oil filters that are insurance against big stuff not oil rejuvenation devices. 
 

16 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

BTW this is a 35-micron ABSOLUTE filter mesh. 

Show me the multipass test results for that absolute claim and you’ll realize why in 1985 we pushed for multipass beta ratios! 

[Grumpy Bear]

A pet project I'm monitoring.

 

 

All under 3K OCI

Oldest to right and progressing to the left. 

 

Left to right then:

Gray column is a reference oil. 

Next is the AMSOIL Ea filter.

The next two the FRAM XG

Far right the Purolator BOSS

 

The two that interested me the most are to two back-to-back FRAM XG results. Do you get the idea that the result is more about how the motor is shedding than how the filter is filtering? Or perhaps how dirty the oil is new? 

 

If you held the best FRAM XG result alone outside its reference, there isn't spit difference between it and the AMSOIL. 

 

Separate project Mobil 1 oil from the bottle tested: 

4um = 21,400

6um = 8,450

10 um = 1558

14 um = 173

18 um = 68

21um = 47

38 um = 10

50um = 7

 

 Post use for a few hundred miles AMSOIL filter tested:

 

4um = 128

6um = 70

14um = 12

25um = 2

ISO CODE 14/13/11

 

Or worse than the FRAM XG's best after @ 2,800 miles. Even the worst FRAM XG result tested better than AMSOIL SS 5W30 out of a new bottle: ISO CODE 17/14/10 and AMSOIL is some clean in the bottle oil compared to some of the "Major Labels" on the shelf. So are Pennzoil Platinum Plus and Shell Helix. 

 

Notes:

 

1.) The Purolator BOSS and the Mobil 1 are both low efficiency high-(holding)capacity filters making that swap for long changes. 

 

2.) The Purolator Pure ONE test the same as the FRAM XG series. Don't confuse the two Purolator filters. 

 

Take away. Pick a decent filter and toss it when testing says the oil is dirty. Find your mark. Make a choice and be happy. 

Edited April 4 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

Staff at K&P Engineering who's 35-micron stainless mesh filter I showed earlier has a test mule 5.7 Dodge Hemi WT they use to pull trailers to shows that has been using one of their filters from the get. I check in on Dave from time to time to ask about the mule: 

 

292,000 miles... no issues.  She's still pulling trailers to shows with no complaints.

 

K&P Engineering

720-238-1181

www.KandPEngineering.com

[email protected]

 

Last time I checked in was June 19, 2019 when it has 232,000 on the clock. 

Edited April 4 by Grumpy Bear

[lineman1234]

On 4/2/2024 at 11:23 AM, customboss said:

Hydraulic or liquid filters do not " cake " only air filters. That's why liquid filters as we know them are most efficient at initial use.  The media is used to change oil or liquid flow to capture trash in the media. Once that media is holding trash the media cannot change oil flow as efficiently. 

 

Efficiency is one measure, life and capacity are a whole different measure. 

 

I think the HUBB filter using a probably 50 um outer filter and the internal surgical filter that may be 10 um capable is a good mix of stainless steel media when most other cleanable stainless steel media filters use just that 50 um outer and maybe employ a magnet and or another cross section of screen at 50 um again.  

 

 

 

 

 

No magnet on the HUBB. I could put one on though, but im not that worried. 

... 6,000ish miles on the 2024 L8T, bought, 1/23/24 and it hasnt blown up yet. But thats only less than 1,000 miles on the HUBB, 5,200 on the oem and factory oil.

...

It/the HUBB,,, uses just the one multi screen, then, if needed goes into bypass and uses the second screen with the larger screen.... Then if really needed goes into bypass, bypass and bypasses the bypass screen wile using that and the big screen. 

... There is a spring in the other side of the small one i had put back in after cleaning. It is the bypass to bypass the larger one if ever needed, then if the small one clogged would bypass though that spring opening that is visible. 

... IF, that filter goes into bypass, there is really a problem or some big time neglect. 

[lineman1234]

11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Staff at K&P Engineering who's 35-micron stainless mesh filter I showed earlier has a test mule 5.7 Dodge Hemi WT they use to pull trailers to shows that has been using one of their filters from the get. I check in on Dave from time to time to ask about the mule: 

 

292,000 miles... no issues.  She's still pulling trailers to shows with no complaints.

 

K&P Engineering

720-238-1181

www.KandPEngineering.com

[email protected]

 

Last time I checked in was June 19, 2019 when it has 232,000 on the clock. 

The K&P was what i had on the 3 Harleys and a drop in one they made for the Kawy.

... For no particular reason, i chose the HUBB for my recent car, then, it, for the new pickup because i had one. I thought i could just get the different screw on base but they dont sell just the base. So i now have a second set of guts to just change oil and clean the filter later.

... I probably could have had someone drill and retap the other filter but just ordered another. 

Edited April 4 by lineman1234