Estolide's in PCMO

[Grumpy Bear]

 

Estolide's

 

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=80jpDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA479&lpg=PA479&dq=estolide+solvency&source=bl&ots=tUpPw_Z-eT&sig=ACfU3U2GuX5vlUeSaxjav3sgAhs7wsc85Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_5OKN_dv5AhUTjIkEHfO3ArwQ6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q=estolide solvency&f=false

Edited August 23, 2022 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

This is how you get my business.

 

 

 

Let me know what is in that bottle I'm pouring into my motor and I will!

 

Figure 27.25 from the previous link provided (credit) shows a few points of interest.

 

Estolides are NOT Group III+++ fluids. No such thing. It ends at Group III+. 

 

Like any other ester they are Group V and in this case a large part of the product is an Estolide ester. Which means the esters made come from natural oils  such as Soya and Castor Bean and not chemical feed stocks from crude refining such as ethane/ethylene.

 

Conformation that the mineral portion is a Group III is a plus as is the very low percent of VIM.

Infineum is a joint venture of Exxon/Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell. Very top shelf....

 

The formula Biosynthetic received it's API certification on. This is good news. If they change the formula they would have to resubmit the testing and that cost more than this start up wishes to speed at present. In fact the reason they went with a "off the self' add package. That is to assure first pass certification. @customboss put up a video on this not long ago.  

 

 

[customboss]

Interesting because when I first queried them the petroleum base was GRP II+. So they must have improved it.  Thanks for sharing. I THINK the video said it was GRP II+ from Chevron world of hydrocracked bases oils....LOL  I can't hear so I might have misheard. 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, customboss said:

Interesting because when I first queried them the petroleum base was GRP II+. So they must have improved it.  Thanks for sharing. I THINK the video said it was GRP II+ from Chevron world of hydrocracked bases oils....LOL  I can't hear so I might have misheard. 

 

If you can find that video can you repost it here please? 

[customboss]

 

[Grumpy Bear]

I ordered 12 quarts Monday night after business hours via FedEx directly from Bio-Synthetic and it came today!

Can't complain about that. Anyway....

 

Some night stand reading.

 

https://www.routledge.com/Synthetics-Mineral-Oils-and-Bio-Based-Lubricants-Chemistry-and-Technology/Rudnick/p/book/9781138068216

 

[customboss]

 

[customboss]

23 hours ago, customboss said:

Interesting because when I first queried them the petroleum base was GRP II+. So they must have improved it.  Thanks for sharing. I THINK the video said it was GRP II+ from Chevron world of hydrocracked bases oils....LOL  I can't hear so I might have misheard. 

I misheard because I can't hear.  Just being careful not to mislead.....LOL  

[diyer2]

At $10 a quart I will use Amsoil OE. 

[customboss]

Found it.......

 

Hydrocarbons from Plants

 

One of the players in this area is Novvi, whose NovaSpec products meet the APIs Group III criteria and are produced from sugarcane cellulose. As they are biodegradable, use of these hydrocarbons in the appropriate amounts allows formulators to produce environmentally acceptable lubricants that meet the specifications for hydraulic environmental polyalphaolefins and related products, according to ASTM D15380. (Novvi did not respond to requests for comments at the time of publication.)

 

https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazine-emea/3/a-new-way-forward/

[Grumpy Bear]

 

My dog has four limbs, brown eyes and hair. So does my son. Can I conclude my dog is my son?

  

 

Lubes and Greases is WRONG. The criteria for a Group III starts with being derived from a MINERAL OIL. It isn't. It is derived from plant oils. Oh it may meet the API specs for sulfur, minimum saturation and viscosity index but it does not and can not meet the CRITERIA. Lubes and Grease is not the organization who is doing the certifications nor making the rules. Neither is BT or RLI or EVOLVE or some quality lab or Tribologist or  anyone else. The API is the standard. Writes the standards and no one gets a Cert without their approval with REQUIRES conformity to the RULES. Some may not like it but some people don't like allot of things they have little say in. Absent such finality you are left with chaos. 

 

POA's also meet the specs for a Group III and yet they are not a Group III. Why? Not a mineral oil based material and synthetically produced. 

 

Review API doc 1509  Appendix E below:

 

 

Esters, ALL Esters are Group V

 

Thought we had the nails in this coffin lid hammered down

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Why I'm interested in Estolides. A personal note. 

 

Aniline point and oxidative/hydrolytic degradation resistance. But mostly Aniline point. 

 

PCMO's contain detergents but those Adpack chemistries can only inhibit deposits. They can not clean existing deposits. Detergents are not solvents. Estolides are HUGE solvents. The lower the aniline point of the finished product the better it's solvency. Aniline point is blendable. Biosynthetic is 35% Estolide base oil. About double the the polyol ester content of Red Line at half the aniline point. Major upgrade in solvency. 

 

A motor oil detergent is a surfactant that envelopes a particle and the dispersant package keeps those particles from finding each other preventing precipitation as sludge. The base oil has a resistance to those particles forming and antioxidants to increase that tendency/ability. Each has limits of saturation that once exceeded leave behind deposits that are hard to remove. 

 

A solvent dissolves those particles into solution even after they have amalgamated and precipitated. It too has a limit of saturation and why we change oil even with the best chemistries. Dilution trumps them all.

 

But there is a practical $$$$ limit. In problem motors such as the GM 2.4 this ability to clean and not just prevent is HUGE. Same principle used in CUMMINS Restore. I don't know how they compare in finished aniline point but it matters not if I can no longer source a steady supply of Restore. 

 

 

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

My dog has four limbs, brown eyes and hair. So does my son. Can I conclude my dog is my son?

  

 

Lubes and Greases is WRONG. The criteria for a Group III starts with being derived from a MINERAL OIL. It isn't. It is derived from plant oils. Oh it may meet the API specs for sulfur, minimum saturation and viscosity index but it does not and can not meet the CRITERIA. Lubes and Grease is not the organization who is doing the certifications nor making the rules. Neither is BT or RLI or EVOLVE or some quality lab or Tribologist or  anyone else. The API is the standard. Writes the standards and no one gets a Cert without their approval with REQUIRES conformity to the RULES. Some may not like it but some people don't like allot of things they have little say in. Absent such finality you are left with chaos. 

 

POA's also meet the specs for a Group III and yet they are not a Group III. Why? Not a mineral oil based material and synthetically produced. 

 

Review API doc 1509  Appendix E below:

 

 

Esters, ALL Esters are Group V

 

Thought we had the nails in this coffin lid hammered down

 

 

 

WE! who’s we kimosabe?

Youz.  

All in good fun of course. 
 

Night. 

[pokismoki]

On 8/24/2022 at 12:17 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

 

Some night stand reading.

 

https://www.routledge.com/Synthetics-Mineral-Oils-and-Bio-Based-Lubricants-Chemistry-and-Technology/Rudnick/p/book/9781138068216

 

I always wanted to ask you... where does oil come from? if its far below the layer of prehistoric organics, where is it from and whats its origin? Rocks, minerals?

[customboss]

8 hours ago, pokismoki said:

I always wanted to ask you... where does oil come from? if its far below the layer of prehistoric organics, where is it from and whats its origin? Rocks, minerals?

Google your friend poki   

 

 

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/