Top Tier Gas

customboss · April 14, 2022

E15 study from 2013 by National Renewable Energy Laboratory for reference

Grumpy Bear · April 15, 2022

On 4/13/2022 at 8:57 PM, customboss said:

E15 study from 2013 by National Renewable Energy Laboratory for reference

b378858ac325c6e165_sgm6bknd4.pdf 788.41 kB · 10 downloads

As a science guy did it bother you that there was allot of intentional 'noise' in this study? That is if the noise was delited that study would be two pages instead of over fifty. Spend a paragraph explaining test "fluids" vs "fuels" and how it interfered with results so that data collected was not useful to the study after spending a page showing that data. Use of small data sets combine with other study small data sets of dissimilar test types and/or units and so on and so forth. What I get from a study that combines results for grapes and walnuts is at best they are both edible. Studies like this confuse more than they inform. IMHO of course.

diyer2 · April 16, 2022

There are millions of vehicles not having problems using our gas. Most owners don't know or care about a lot of the things discussed here.

customboss · April 16, 2022

15 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

As a science guy did it bother you that there was allot of intentional 'noise' in this study? That is if the noise was delited that study would be two pages instead of over fifty. Spend a paragraph explaining test "fluids" vs "fuels" and how it interfered with results so that data collected was not useful to the study after spending a page showing that data. Use of small data sets combine with other study small data sets of dissimilar test types and/or units and so on and so forth. What I get from a study that combines results for grapes and walnuts is at best they are both edible. Studies like this confuse more than they inform. IMHO of course.

Thats what happens when you are looking for meaningful issues from 43 studies and 33 were unique research studies.

I do the same thing and get the "forest for trees" effect at times. Why I always read the executive summary first.

"The main conclusion from our analysis is that the data in the 33 unique research studies reviewed here do not show meaningful differences between E15 and E10 in any performance category."

Some have questioned E15 being used to try to lower the fuels prices and worried it will harm their engines. I dug up this old study to show back in 2012-2013 even the National Renewable Energy Laboratory who went back as far as they could proved in a 2001 or newer spark engined vehicle DESIGNED FOR RICH IN BTU GASOLINE it wouldn't harm or affect anything negatively.

IMHO it will help keep a newer GDI engine design stay in better shape over time from that additional 5% ethanol cleaning and solvency affect. Not to mention lowering the deposits formation from having 5% less goop we call gasoline while getting a cheap boost in octane. This study would have missed GDI deposits issues in mass because of its timing since Hyundai introduced the first passenger car Theta engine with GDI in 2010 time frame.

Edited April 16, 2022 by customboss
add octane benefit

customboss · April 16, 2022

I recently ran E15 for about 150 miles interval and saw no degradation in mpg our 2022 LTD Trail Boss L3B at highway speeds 65-75 mph while visiting Texastan.....

customboss · April 16, 2022

47 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

There are millions of vehicles not having problems using our gas. Most owners don't know or care about a lot of the things discussed here.

Absolutely agree, true for this site and its participants in general.

shakenfake · April 16, 2022

1 minute ago, customboss said:

I recently ran E15 for about 150 miles interval and saw no degradation in mpg our 2022 LTD Trail Boss L3B at highway speeds 65-75 mph while visiting Texastan.....

That is surprising. I ran E15, 88 Octane depending on where you live same thing but different names, for about 300 miles in my girlfriend's 2017 1.8L Toyota Corolla and saw a 3 MPG decrease. Not worth the 5% savings.

On an Impala board I am on we all had similar experiences as I did with E15 as well.

Grumpy Bear · April 16, 2022

5 minutes ago, customboss said:

Hyundai introduced the first passenger car Theta engine with GDI in 2010 time frame.

Not to pick nits here but.....WIKI: The first GDI engine to reach production was introduced in 1925 for a low-compression truck engine. Several German cars used a Bosch mechanical GDI system in the 1950s, however usage of the technology remained rare until an electronic GDI system was introduced in 1996 by Mitsubishi for mass-produced cars.

A bit of waffling in that WIKI article. Benz use of GDI in 50's PRODUCTION cars that were MASS PRODUCED evidently does not constitute significance. :crackup: However that Benz outing does constitute the majority of "basis" for arguments for cat cans. :rollin:

12 minutes ago, customboss said:

Why I always read the executive summary first.

Hummmm.... If I read the 'executive summary (a good idea indeed) of Cinderella would my it's conclusion that pumpkins can be transformed into coaches be accurate?

That study makes a comment on power cylinder leak down testing that rubbed me raw.

Good morning sir. I've started running E-15 when practical in DIZZY and yes I believe it harmless to equipment and beneficial for it's intent. Not much of it in our area AND those that do only a few are priced to reflect it's intent.

customboss · April 16, 2022

1 hour ago, shakenfake said:

That is surprising. I ran E15, 88 Octane depending on where you live same thing but different names, for about 300 miles in my girlfriend's 2017 1.8L Toyota Corolla and saw a 3 MPG decrease. Not worth the 5% savings.

On an Impala board I am on we all had similar experiences as I did with E15 as well.

shake, the key to ethanol boosting octane and burning cleaner is can the engine use it effectively?

My brand new L3B turbo 4 Trail Boss obviously can use it effectively.

Here if you can find E15 its 87 octane because the oil companies use an old outdated state ( maybe a federal? ) law for our modern engines to produce and sell 85 octane regular, 87 mid grade and 91 premium.

shakenfake · April 16, 2022

That is true. I would figure her car should be able to use it effectively since it has a note in the gas cap about it. Figure their must be some good reason lol

customboss · April 16, 2022

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Not to pick nits here but.....WIKI: The first GDI engine to reach production was introduced in 1925 for a low-compression truck engine. Several German cars used a Bosch mechanical GDI system in the 1950s, however usage of the technology remained rare until an electronic GDI system was introduced in 1996 by Mitsubishi for mass-produced cars.

A bit of waffling in that WIKI article. Benz use of GDI in 50's PRODUCTION cars that were MASS PRODUCED evidently does not constitute significance. However that Benz outing does constitute the majority of "basis" for arguments for cat cans.

Hummmm.... If I read the 'executive summary (a good idea indeed) of Cinderella would my it's conclusion that pumpkins can be transformed into coaches be accurate?

That study makes a comment on power cylinder leak down testing that rubbed me raw.

Good morning sir. I've started running E-15 when practical in DIZZY and yes I believe it harmless to equipment and beneficial for it's intent. Not much of it in our area AND those that do only a few are priced to reflect it's intent.

First mass marketed and produced Gas Direct Injection marketed to US was Hyundai, 2009 .

The engineers there were former Ford folks, interesting Ford introduced the 2010 series Ecoboost right after Hyundai.

The rest of the WIKI distraction has no bearing on the deposits most are experiencing whether they know it or not.

True DDI , diesel direct injection was introduced much earlier.

Grumpy Bear · April 17, 2022

8 hours ago, customboss said:

First mass marketed and produced Gas Direct Injection marketed to US was Hyundai, 2009 .

The engineers there were former Ford folks, interesting Ford introduced the 2010 series Ecoboost right after Hyundai.

The rest of the WIKI distraction has no bearing on the deposits most are experiencing whether they know it or not.

True DDI , diesel direct injection was introduced much earlier.

https://www.venarca.com/mercedes-benz-300-sl-w198-gullwing-roadster

Okay so we are again going to pick nits. :banghead: Why? What's the point? :dunno: I guess you get to define MASS PRODUCED?

1952 Goliath and Gutbord introduced the mechanical DI Benz would later use and in 1954 Benz introduced it in the 300 SL as the FIRST DI GAS FOUR STROKE PRODUCTION MOTOR.

I suppose we will now say that they didn't produce a large enough number of units to call it 'mass produced". :banghead:

Between 1954 (1955 model year) and 1963 there were 3,258 PRODUCTION units built. Let me think on this a second. YEP! Mass Produced and FIRST. The fact Hundi used a computer and made more units does not CANCEL this fact. :wtf:

customboss · April 17, 2022

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

https://www.venarca.com/mercedes-benz-300-sl-w198-gullwing-roadster

Okay so we are again going to pick nits. Why? What's the point? I guess you get to define MASS PRODUCED?

1952 Goliath and Gutbord introduced the mechanical DI Benz would later use and in 1954 Benz introduced it in the 300 SL as the FIRST DI GAS FOUR STROKE PRODUCTION MOTOR.

I suppose we will now say that they didn't produce a large enough number of units to call it 'mass produced".

Between 1954 (1955 model year) and 1963 there were 3,258 PRODUCTION units built. Let me think on this a second. YEP! Mass Produced and FIRST. The fact Hundi used a computer and made more units does not CANCEL this fact.