Middle seatbelt

mixer788 · December 4, 2021

2 hours ago, shakenfake said:

I found them that said you can't get inspected nor sell the vehicle but not that you can't remove a seat belt. Technically a console swap breaks the law

FYI I am in California but moving soon. This is what I was thinking of replacing the jump seat aka middle seat with a center console and do my best if I get pulled over in a HOV lane.

mixer788 · December 4, 2021

11 minutes ago, txab said:

have you actually talked to a person, with knowledge, who actually can say that what you're looking to do would make you legal to be in the 3 occupant lane with only 2 passengers. A friend that is retired CHP doesn't believe it will pass muster.

I have talked with a few CHP's and get mixed results from them. I would fell I would be better off fighting it with a judge in California being a liberal state and all.

txab · December 4, 2021

I'm guessing in court it's going to be based on the requirement of needing 3 actual human passengers in the vehicle, not "well, I can't legally seat 3 in the cab due to no seat belt", so I can drive in the HOV 3 lane". If the standard was based on what you're looking to do, then some delivery vans could take the HOV 2 or 3 lane. They only have 1 seat for the driver usually, even with 2 seats, they know they can't legally do it.

The issue is "3 passenger" requirement. I think your judge will look at it from that POV

I'd say just go for it, then when you eventually get busted, pay the fine

Edited December 4, 2021 by txab

mikeyk101 · December 4, 2021

JMHO, I would bet that the chances of getting pulled over in the HOV lanes if you at least have a passenger will be slim to none. There is a lot bigger fish to fry and as long as you are not attracting unneeded attention, you should be fine. And with the seatback down, it basically is no longer a seat. Have you or someone else ever tried to actually use it as a seat? If it were me, and the slight possibility that I did get pulled over, I would just play dumb and say it's a console and show the nice officer how it opens up like one. Unless he is familiar with the middle so called seat, it would probably work out to your advantage. Usually Highway Patrol concentrate more on the trucks than passenger vehicles for minor infractions. And since covid, all across the country, enforcement for just about anything just doesn't exist. Back to the trucks, on most multilane highways, trucks are only allowed to travel in the right 2 lanes. The highways often times even have signage stating the same. But I can't even count the number of times I have seen multiple trucks happily motoring along in the 3rd lane and even sometimes in the far left lane. Before covid, this particular infraction was almost never seen and if it was, the driver was almost guaranteed a stop and a careful inspection.

16LT4 · December 6, 2021

On 12/3/2021 at 4:47 PM, shakenfake said:

I could not find a statute that states you aren't allowed to remove a seatbelt period end of story. If you can find me that I will eat my words but I believe if it is your personal vehicle you can remove the seat belt. It is the inspector's job to determine if your vehicle is not compliant.

I found them that said you can't get inspected nor sell the vehicle but not that you can't remove a seat belt. Technically a console swap breaks the law

This identifies "person" not dealer; note the interstate verbage, though.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/30112

A brief look at CA DOT page mentions requirements for the HOV lane: all HOV corridors require 2+ occupants (any person occupying a seatbelt; this includes the driver. No, removing a seat belt does not skirt this on a technicality, because the seat requires/had a seat belt at when manufactured and sold). Some further require 3+ occupants. In San Fransisco, 2-occupant vehicles are permitted (pickups, non-commercial vans, Corvettes) as long as they have a maximum of 2-seat occupancy and filled with 2 occupants. Note the $490 fine, plus possible (probable) administrative fees. Because the 3rd seat is still there, despite lack of seatbelt, the HOV infaction still applies, with possible additional tickets. A full console swap would probably be the safer bet because the seating position itself is moved entirely.

https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/hov

IMO, trying to play "I'm smarter than the law" seldom works in one's benefit. If caught, and trying to argue "well Your Honor, yes my truck originally had 3 seat belts, but because I removed one to make it a two seater (despite the 3rd seat still there), the law doesn't apply to me" is like saying "This ticket for no brake lights is improper, because I removed all the brake light bulbs;" same logic applies. If you're already in court, the State is going to collect its money, and probably tack on fines for tampering with safety equipment. Between fines, possible points, and time/expense lost in trying to fight the ticket, is it worth it to hop in the HOV just to save a few minutes? Not worth it to me, so do so at your own risk.

I don't know about CA, but in NY HOV violations result in 3 points on the driver's license, the same as being ticketed for speeding up to (including 10mph over the posted limit. If one has a CDL (like I do), that HOV infraction (or even towing a trailer in the left-most lane on some highways) quickly makes that quick "hop" into the HOV an expensive nightmare. Every few years, I read in the news about someone being pulled over with a dummy (literally) in the passenger seat to use the HOV lane; the cops don't find it amusing:

https://www.longislandpress.com/2021/06/02/6-drivers-who-hate-long-island-traffic-so-much-they-used-dummies-in-the-lie-hov-lane/

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/07/12/dummy-in-hov-lane/

https://huntingtonnow.com/man-ticketed-for-fake-passenger-in-hov-lane/