Im sorry, but it is kind of funny GM 21-NA-199

BlaineBug · November 20, 2021

I mentioned that a vehicle data logger or tuner pro would need to chime in and provide their insight because that person with all of the technical programming data was not me. All I know is when I was interested in the Ford 4.6 years back, plenty of members would get professional tunes that altered a variety of things. I explicitly remember that if someone was running a 180 degree thermostat instead of the factory 195 degree thermostat that they would specifically tune for it, amongst many other parameters that a modder would be changing with their motor and transmission.

Also a thermostat's purpose is actually to increase cooling efficiency by restricting flow through the cooler. And once 100% open will have no effect on temperature as it can't do much beyond that under normal warm operating conditions. But a cooler thermostat or no thermostat in a cold climate may never allow the vehicle to reach operating temperature as the cold ambient temperature will play a role in regulating that engine temperature as well.

I have heard stories where running no engine thermostat actually resulted in overheating conditions as well, as the coolant was flowing too fast to allow the cooler (radiator) to effectively provide enough time for transfer of heat.

I would personally interject that I believe keeping up with transmission fluid changes more regularly will have more of a benefit towards longevity than doing the bean flip or installing the revised lower temperature transmission cooler thermostat.

Edited November 20, 2021 by BlaineBug

Grumpy Bear · November 20, 2021

1 hour ago, BlaineBug said:

I mentioned that a vehicle data logger or tuner pro would need to chime in and provide their insight because that person with all of the technical programming data was not me. All I know is when I was interested in the Ford 4.6 years back, plenty of members would get professional tunes that altered a variety of things. I explicitly remember that if someone was running a 180 degree thermostat instead of the factory 195 degree thermostat that they would specifically tune for it, amongst many other parameters that a modder would be changing with their motor and transmission.

Also a thermostat's purpose is actually to increase cooling efficiency by restricting flow through the cooler. And once 100% open will have no effect on temperature as it can't do much beyond that under normal warm operating conditions. But a cooler thermostat or no thermostat in a cold climate may never allow the vehicle to reach operating temperature as the cold ambient temperature will play a role in regulating that engine temperature as well.

I have heard stories where running no engine thermostat actually resulted in overheating conditions as well, as the coolant was flowing too fast to allow the cooler (radiator) to effectively provide enough time for transfer of heat.

I would personally interject that I believe keeping up with transmission fluid changes more regularly will have more of a benefit towards longevity than doing the bean flip or installing the revised lower temperature transmission cooler thermostat.

Yep people do all sorts of things.

You have nice day.

newdude · November 20, 2021

15 hours ago, BlaineBug said:

As you say the 2007-2013 models did not have a trans cooler line thermostat. But the firmware was programmed for as such.

Gonna disagree with that. I don't have a data log to back it, but my truck before and after deleting the bypass shifts and behaves NO different. Shifts up and down the same, shifts the same at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and WOT.

The hot fluid check is no different for 1500 and HD either (with tstat 1500 and without tstat HD). 160F-200F is the hot check range. Same for the cold level check of 95-113F.

Edited November 20, 2021 by newdude

BlaineBug · November 20, 2021

31 minutes ago, newdude said:

Gonna disagree with that. I don't have a data log to back it, but my truck before and after deleting the bypass shifts and behaves NO different. Shifts up and down the same, shifts the same at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and WOT.

The hot fluid check is no different for 1500 and HD either (with tstat 1500 and without tstat HD). 160F-200F is the hot check range. Same for the cold level check of 95-113F.

You are correct, maximum operating temperature should be the same with or without a thermostat, however not restricting flow can create a condition of reduced cooling efficiency due to the flow of fluid moving too quickly through the cooler during hot weather. Additionally, a slower and prolonged warm up period may result in cold weather, and potentially never reaching operating temperature in frigid weather as well. Thermostats do have a purpose in their effectiveness at increasing heat transfer. That's all I'll say about it as I have repeated this many times now.

Edited November 20, 2021 by BlaineBug

14burrito · November 20, 2021

6 hours ago, BlaineBug said:

You are correct, maximum operating temperature should be the same with or without a thermostat, however not restricting flow can create a condition of reduced cooling efficiency due to the flow of fluid moving too quickly through the cooler during hot weather. Additionally, a slower and prolonged warm up period may result in cold weather, and potentially never reaching operating temperature in frigid weather as well. Thermostats do have a purpose in their effectiveness at increasing heat transfer. That's all I'll say about it as I have repeated this many times now.

The point you are trying to make is a result that's directed towards engine speed more than tstat close/open flow through - IMO.

Quicker engine speed will flow more volume with a lower delta. Slower engine speed will result in a higher delta but less volume.

Thermostat is a floor to start cooling. Delta itself depends on efficiency of the system based off set variables.

Again, this is my opinion.

Edited November 20, 2021 by 14burrito

BlaineBug · November 22, 2021

I saw a comment written elsewhere - if you live in the north, don't even consider eliminating your transmission cooler thermostat. I might agree with that.

A close second would be installing the "new, revised" lower temperature cooler thermostat. I'd be on board with that!

With a kit like this, what benefit does it have versus flipping the pill? Something about pressure equalizing or bypass?

14burrito · November 22, 2021

3 minutes ago, BlaineBug said:

I saw a comment written elsewhere - if you live in the north, don't even consider eliminating your transmission cooler thermostat. I might agree with that.

A close second would be installing the "new, revised" lower temperature cooler thermostat. I'd be on board with that!

With a kit like this, what benefit does it have versus flipping the pill? Something about pressure equalizing or bypass?

dieselfan1 · November 22, 2021

We need some solid cold weather data here.

I'm in Minnesota and it was 10°F here this morning.

On my lifted truck the pill is flipped and it got to around 117°F after a 10 minute warm up, 15 miles on a county road 50 mph 4th gear tow/haul on, and a couple miles 30 mph 2nd and 3rd gear.

I try to keep my R's around 1800-2000 rpm so it don't lug.

I'm afraid once it gets colder it ain't going above 100°. Especially on the highway. What do you think Grumpy???

Guys, please chime in with all your cold weather pill flipped data here....

KARNUT · November 22, 2021

16 minutes ago, dieselfan1 said:

We need some solid cold weather data here.

I'm in Minnesota and it was 10°F here this morning.

On my lifted truck the pill is flipped and it got to around 117°F after a 10 minute warm up, 15 miles on a county road 50 mph 4th gear tow/haul on, and a couple miles 30 mph 2nd and 3rd gear.

I try to keep my R's around 1800-2000 rpm so it don't lug.

I'm afraid once it gets colder it ain't going above 100°. Especially on the highway. What do you think Grumpy???

Guys, please chime in with all your cold weather pill flipped data here....

Does the fluid still go through the radiator?

14burrito · November 22, 2021

5 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Does the fluid still go through the radiator?

Condensor

BlaineBug · November 22, 2021

6 minutes ago, 14burrito said:

Condensor

Is that how the trans cooler is in these, combined with the AC condenser rather than the radiator? If so then there's no warm coolant to help elevate the transmission fluid temperature.

dieselfan1 · November 22, 2021

Here's maybe a dumb question.

Would using the block heater, making the engine warm faster, help raise the fluid temp faster?‍

I've asked dumber questions

Edited November 22, 2021 by dieselfan1

14burrito · November 22, 2021

Another thing to note:

This thread is universal across two platforms.

The Silverado, from my understanding, does NOT have grill shutters.

The Tahoe (at least mine) does have grill shutters.

So we need to ensure those providing details include or comment on their platform so we dont have apples to oranges comparisons going on.

dieselfan1 · November 22, 2021

Both my 18 Silverados have shutters

Grumpy Bear · November 22, 2021

4 hours ago, BlaineBug said:

I saw a comment written elsewhere - if you live in the north, don't even consider eliminating your transmission cooler thermostat. I might agree with that.

A close second would be installing the "new, revised" lower temperature cooler thermostat. I'd be on board with that!

With a kit like this, what benefit does it have versus flipping the pill? Something about pressure equalizing or bypass?

The theory is that IF the cooler is plugged by viscous fluid then the kit provides a 'short circuit' back to the pan so that the pump doesn't dead head.

3 hours ago, BlaineBug said:

Is that how the trans cooler is in these, combined with the AC condenser rather than the radiator? If so then there's no warm coolant to help elevate the transmission fluid temperature.

newdude had a good write up this somewhere else. Fluid goes from the trans pump to the radiator THEN to the upper part of the AC condenser in SOME models. Some like mine to the radiator only.

3 hours ago, dieselfan1 said:

We need some solid cold weather data here.

I'm in Minnesota and it was 10°F here this morning.

On my lifted truck the pill is flipped and it got to around 117°F after a 10 minute warm up, 15 miles on a county road 50 mph 4th gear tow/haul on, and a couple miles 30 mph 2nd and 3rd gear.

I try to keep my R's around 1800-2000 rpm so it don't lug.

I'm afraid once it gets colder it ain't going above 100°. Especially on the highway. What do you think Grumpy???

Guys, please chime in with all your cold weather pill flipped data here....

I think this bothers people because the can 'see' it where as we were blind to it from the early 1960's until they put digital gauges in the dash. There is nothing new here. That said...if it really bothers you 1.) use the new thermostat 2.) set up a condenser bypass for winter. 3.) Cover the AC condensers upper core or 4.) blind the thing like a diesel.

I have done #4 which is real easy. Cardboard and bread ties or Duck Tape. There is even a guy who sells canvas grill covers for gas motors.