454 6-10k ft altitude, 454 TBI, performance? And advice?

[Tom_1991]

Recently (9 and 10th Oct.) had a drive with my friend (2008 Ford E-350 with 6.0 diesel) in Eastern Sierra area, used route CA-88(Stockton - Alpine Village), 89(Alpine Village - Topaz Lake), 168(Bishop - Sabrina Lake), 120(Mono Lake - Manteca), US-395(Topaz Lake - Bishop), Virginia Lakes Rd.

The highest altitude was 9900+ ft at Virginia Lakes, and had a one-night camping at North Lake at 9300+ ft.

The performance is expected, it performs like a mid or early 90s Toyota Corolla with 4 adults on board.

At the climbing on US-395N, north of Bishop, (37°28'56.9"N 118°34'52.5"W or 37.482478, -118.581256 ), it can barely maintain 70mph, with the stupid and annoying transmission jump between 3rd and 4th gear. I believe it can actually maintain 70mph without problem if the transmission doesn't mess it up. I am planning to convert it into switch-flip manual or use stand-alone controller.

And the climbing on CA-168 is really a struggle, barely 40mph, with the stupid and annoying transmission again, jumping between 2nd and 3rd gear, until I have it enough, simply put the shifter at 2, let it revs at 3500 rpm, while 4000 is the red line.

So is it performs normal? Any advice on high altitude driving and tuning? Like base ignition timing?

The first day, the climbing on CA-88, 89, 168 and Virginia Lakes Rd, my new air filter is higher than original slight a little bit, caused the air cleaner lid can't seal, let hot air in engine bay get sucked in, I guess it's probably make the high altitude air density problem worse. The next day, I made a gasket with shop towels to seal the lid. I feel it performs better, but since I was grouped with my friend, I can't do the test on the same route to see if it really make difference.

==========

My vehicle: 1994 Chevy Suburban K2500 Silverado, 454TBI (L19)+4L80E, with towing package, 178k miles. Purchased used at 150k miles.

Engine was rebuilted at 75K miles, which is the only known thing, assuming other things are stock, transmission and torque converter are factory original and weresn't rebuilted.

New air filter, Engine oil changed at 175k (Mobil full synthetic), transmission oil changed at 150k.

Coolant / water is 60%/40%, new radiator cap, no boil happened.  (Prestone for GM, orange color)

New spark plugs & wire, ignition coil, ignition control module, fuel filter, fuel pump, thermostat at 150k (right after I purchased it).

  //edit: O2 and MAP sensor are also new, ACDelco.

Base ignition timing is 8 BTDC, factory is 4.

Load: 1 person (me), camping gears, road emergency kit and 2 boxes of tools for emergency, no trailer.

Fuel: Chevron or Shell 91.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Tom_1991

[CamGTP]

It's likely par for the course. That engine only made 230hp under optimum condition and at sea level. You are going way up to 6-10k feet and now the engine is going to lose around 60-65 horsepower.

 

It's also a heavy truck and you have some added weight as well.

 

The TBI engines become pretty gutless at elevation. The later L29's made nearly 300hp from the factory and perform way better. On hills I'd just drop it down into 3rd gear and try to keep it around 60-65mph.

[Tom_1991]

Quote

On hills I'd just drop it down into 3rd gear and try to keep it around 60-65mph

If only me drive freely, probably I will do the same as you.

But my friend's damn turbo diesel is too powerful at that terrain.

To be honest, I am seriously considering about adding turbo at Banks Power and convert the stupid transmission into manual (flip-switch shifting or stand-alone controller).

[shakenfake]

Diesel swap or bust

[Tom_1991]

 

3 hours ago, shakenfake said:

Diesel swap or bust

 

Yup, I am considering about adding turbo.

[shakenfake]

I would LS swap before I add a turbo to an old 454. Just me personally

 

Also by diesel swap I mean legit put a diesel engine in.

[Tom_1991]

3 hours ago, shakenfake said:

I would LS swap before I add a turbo to an old 454. Just me personally

 

Also by diesel swap I mean legit put a diesel engine in.

The problem is I don't have enough budget for this.

Probably forced induction is more affordable for me.

And I don't want to make it too crazy, like those make it 600-1000 hp. I just want to boost it to 350-400hp at sea level, and still have around 300 hp at 8000ft. I think all-stock should be okay, with some enhancement on cooling system, like electric fan, high volume water pump, larger oil cooler.

[CamGTP]

It's still going to cost a lot to supercharge or turbo the 454. The TBI system will be tossed in the garbage and you'd either need to go with a carb or an aftermarket EFI system that can do boost. Those are pretty spendy as well. Along with that a new fuel pump for much higher fuel pressure.

[Tom_1991]

16 hours ago, CamGTP said:

It's still going to cost a lot to supercharge or turbo the 454. The TBI system will be tossed in the garbage and you'd either need to go with a carb or an aftermarket EFI system that can do boost. Those are pretty spendy as well. Along with that a new fuel pump for much higher fuel pressure.

From information I have gathered, a new 454 LS costs around $10k, old ones unless pull from junk yard (around $500 I rememer), or maybe around $3-4k, and they are better to be rebuild before install in the engine bay, which costs around $5K.

The overall cost reduction is not that impressive, but the problem is I don't have garage like most of you folks, I can only do oil change, some wiring work or small part swap.

Works like engine swap, rebuild, welding, are not possible at my place even though I actually like to do it and probably I can do it with enough space and equipment.

So find a right place to install forced induction is probably the only option for me.

Currently, I am considering about ProCharger and Banks.

ProCharger belt-driven turbo costs about $5k, but is not California legal; Banks turbo should be more expensive because they are emission compliant, probably means CA legal, and they are located right in CA. They must have a bigger catalytic converter in their kit. I know catalytic converter, CA version prices at least 2 times of federal version, and to make it worse, we have massive number of converter theft actions happen around, make the price ridiculous high. For example of my Suburban, the converter used to be several hundred, but months ago when I need one for smog, even a used one costs $1300 or something, new one is over $3000! Some how I even suspect it's conspiracy of gov. to force people to purchase electric toy cars, which don't have cat.

I guess these solutions supposed to include new EFI, at least new program, and fueling system, because according to Brain Harris, the stock fuel pump is barely enough for 230hp.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Tom_1991

[shakenfake]

Wait wait

 

You realize you don't have an LS right?

 

when I said LS swap I meant like put in an LQ4, 6.0, and all of the wiring etc that goes with it. A LSX block 454 is yeah like 10k and didn't come in anything

 

But if you have a lead then I would follow that. At the rate I think it will cost to get all this work done on your 454 you are basically looking at money to buy a whole new truck

[Tom_1991]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:23 AM, shakenfake said:

Wait wait

 

You realize you don't have an LS right?

 

when I said LS swap I meant like put in an LQ4, 6.0, and all of the wiring etc that goes with it. A LSX block 454 is yeah like 10k and didn't come in anything

 

But if you have a lead then I would follow that. At the rate I think it will cost to get all this work done on your 454 you are basically looking at money to buy a whole new truck

 

Yup, 10k on LS454 is actually just long block, I need extra money for other accessories and works, like wiring harness, PCM and programing to make it work for my truck. A complete engine probably start from 12k.

And the cost of all my planned work really enough to buy a new truck, but, I think not really that way.

For "new" trucks, especially late 2000s and later, I HATE those complicate fragile and expensive electronic junks come altogether with it.

I once put my hand on a 1998 Chevy C3500 truck, with L29 454, running rough. It's EFI system is unnecessarily complicate than my TBI 454, and what make me mad, is why the hell do I have to own a Snap-on or Tech scanner to do the ignition timing?

So from that, I never bother any 454 or 350 newer than 1995, or in other word, I only look for 1988-1995 GMT400.

But for these trucks, I gonna need the same thing to do, unless the ex-owner have done them for me.

[shakenfake]

Yes no I know that an LS454 is 10k I wasn't doubting that.

[pokismoki]

Kodiak Duramax or an Isuzu NPR Diesel

Edited October 25, 2021 by pokismoki

[Tom_1991]

On 10/24/2021 at 7:35 PM, pokismoki said:

Kodiak Duramax or an Isuzu NPR Diesel

I don't have enough budget. And from my friend's 6.0 Turbo diesel (Ford), I don't think I am ready to bother diesel.

But I plan once I blow my 454, I would do a 12 valve swap. But since 454 is pretty bulletproof if proper maintained, so ~

Oh, by the way, I have a Kodiak C70 in the game Snowrunner.  lol