Here ya go... The 2022 Silverado full reveal!

SILVER SLED · September 15, 2021

On 9/13/2021 at 4:24 PM, Gangly said:

The DSSV shocks are SIGNIFICANT upgrades and worth every penny. Do some research on spool valve shocks and you will understand the significance of these shocks and why they have multiple national titles, in multiple racing venues, and are used on some of highest end race cars and trucks. There is a distinct possibility that within the next ten years spool valve shocks will be a large contributor in the aftermarket shock segment seeing how heat and cycling doesn't affect them like it does traditional shocks like FOX, King, etc.

There are no other 1/2 trucks with true lockers front and rear, its a first, and GM broke the mold by doing what no other manufacturer was willing to do with their 1/2 tons. That as well is a HUGE game changer for those individuals who do any off roading at all. There are plenty of times where Im out in a field working and a front locker would be an awesome help. Get this truck offroad, doing trails, climbs, (insert anything other than desert racing) and the Zr2 will out perform the Raptor and TRX.

A badass set of shocks, an entirely different front bumper with significantly increased approach angles, and selectable lockers at both ends which is a HUGE benefit to those who use them. You are trying to make those upgrades seem like minor changes but those are HUGE upgrades to anybody who off roads at all and more than worth their costs, hands down.

Wasn't trying to belittle the shocks and diffs. Was just wondering or hoping at the time that GM would have added some suspension modifications to make it a little more special. Like longer travel, more ground clearance, tires with more sidewall...

spizike9 · September 16, 2021

On 9/14/2021 at 2:59 PM, todd308 said:

Thanks for the correction. I watched their walk around and also the pyramid ranking and pretty much agree with it.

While it might seem like I'm hard on the GM's I will say this. If Chevy puts the ZR2 at say a $60k MSRP loaded, and it qualifies for rebates, which basically means it should be OTD for around $60k, all I will say is as soon as it hits the market guys with AT4's better be trading in fast, because used value on AT4's is going to tank and dealer lots are going to be full of used AT4s. I don't see anything the 21' AT4 loaded offers that the ZR2 won't, and the ZR2 has way more off road capability. I can't see any reason I wouldn't dump my AT4 for the ZR2. I'm sure they will put something extra in new AT4-X, but even if they do, the ZR2 will still be a significant upgrade over any current 21' AT4.

Well loaded 6.2 AT4s were pretty much 65k MSRP. During the good old days you could get 10-15k off of those pretty regularly.

That being said I fully expect a fully loaded ZR2 to come in closer to 70k since it has all the same stuff as a AT4 but you also get front and rear elockers, multimatic shocks and just the yearly annual increase in price. These things will sell for MSRP for probably the better part of the next year.

econometrics · September 16, 2021

9 hours ago, spizike9 said:

Well loaded 6.2 AT4s were pretty much 65k MSRP. During the good old days you could get 10-15k off of those pretty regularly.

That being said I fully expect a fully loaded ZR2 to come in closer to 70k since it has all the same stuff as a AT4 but you also get front and rear elockers, multimatic shocks and just the yearly annual increase in price. These things will sell for MSRP for probably the better part of the next year.

That's very improbable. It cannot cost more than a HC, and the HC isn't going to leap up that much in one year just with a new interior (that is also available on an LT trim).

Mawz · September 16, 2021

On 9/15/2021 at 10:29 AM, SILVER SLED said:

Wasn't trying to belittle the shocks and diffs. Was just wondering or hoping at the time that GM would have added some suspension modifications to make it a little more special. Like longer travel, more ground clearance, tires with more sidewall...

They definitely didn't go all out, but there is more travel, more clearance and more sidewall vs an LT Trail Boss. There just isn't as much as you would have got if they'd fitted a redesigned front suspension like all previous ZR2's got (not counting the Tracker ZR2, which was an insult to the name)

Frankly, the Silverado ZR2 is more LTZ Trail Boss+ than ZR2.

The changes do not include the geometry and track changes that the S10 ZR2 and Colorado ZR2 both have received.

Don't get me wrong, I dig it, I just think GM didn't do enough to justify the ZR2 moniker.

I think GM needs to rethink it's offroad package selection. The Trail Boss has never been quite enough change over the stock Z71, particularly in terms of tires and the fact it still comes with a G80. Frankly, about half the ZR2 bits should be on the Trail Boss package (lockers, maybe as optional, all the driving aids on LT+, and the 33's and let folks buy an LTZ Trail Boss) and the ZR2 should have gotten a wider track, 35's (with 4.10 gears) and new front UCA/LCA's with more articulation, then let the inevitable Bison version get a blown 6.2, optional 37's and 4.56 gearing, more lift and maybe bring back some High Desert bits too.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Mawz

spizike9 · September 20, 2021

On 9/16/2021 at 9:34 AM, econometrics said:

That's very improbable. It cannot cost more than a HC, and the HC isn't going to leap up that much in one year just with a new interior (that is also available on an LT trim).

I’m sure GM will charge a couple thousand for Super Cruise. Fully loaded High Countries will be over 70k. Just like you can get a fully loaded Raptor for 83k witch is mode than a Limited.

You’re not being realistic if you think a fully loaded ZR2 is going to come in at a less price point than a current fully loaded AT4. It has all the same features, but better gauge cluster and center stack. Then add front and rear eLockers and multimatic shocks, bigger and better tires and high clearance bumper and different hood. GM will will be charging a pretty penny for this thing.

econometrics · September 20, 2021

25 minutes ago, spizike9 said:

I’m sure GM will charge a couple thousand for Super Cruise. Fully loaded High Countries will be over 70k. Just like you can get a fully loaded Raptor for 83k witch is mode than a Limited.

You’re not being realistic if you think a fully loaded ZR2 is going to come in at a less price point than a current fully loaded AT4. It has all the same features, but better gauge cluster and center stack. Then add front and rear eLockers and multimatic shocks, bigger and better tires and high clearance bumper and different hood. GM will will be charging a pretty penny for this thing.

The new cluster and infotainment is a nonstarter for changing the MSRP, because the LT has the same dash and center stack as a base HC (or ZR2)

My point is TFL said the ZR2 comes with ONE trim option - multiflex tailgate. All other items (vented seats, HUD, etc) are standard.

Can you load out an LTZ currently to price out a base HC? Yes. But with GM still selling an AT4 (and presumably an AT4X), they won’t crowd the pricing on the ZR2 to compete with the AT4.

All said, I don’t think the ZR2 will MSRP for more than $60K. And most of the major media coverage is saying $55K starting.

spizike9 · September 20, 2021

1 hour ago, econometrics said:

The new cluster and infotainment is a nonstarter for changing the MSRP, because the LT has the same dash and center stack as a base HC (or ZR2)

My point is TFL said the ZR2 comes with ONE trim option - multiflex tailgate. All other items (vented seats, HUD, etc) are standard.

Can you load out an LTZ currently to price out a base HC? Yes. But with GM still selling an AT4 (and presumably an AT4X), they won’t crowd the pricing on the ZR2 to compete with the AT4.

All said, I don’t think the ZR2 will MSRP for more than $60K. And most of the major media coverage is saying $55K starting.

So you think the new ZR2 is going to have a lower MSRP than a loaded LT Trail Boss? I sure hope you’re right because at 60k the ZR2 would be a steal. At 65k it’s pushing it’s limits and anything over that is just meh. Giving pricing on current AT4 and Trail Bosses I just don’t see how that can happen if the only option for a ZR2 is multiflex tailgate.

todd308 · September 20, 2021

There's another angle to this we haven't talked about either and that's how the market has clearly shown that it will pay much more than MSRP for vehicles that are in demand and limited. Look at the fact some of us sold 20' AT4's for more than we paid for them used this year and dealers jacking them up $10K over MSRP and selling them. There's also all the dealers charging $10-30k over MSRP for bronco's and selling them. Heck some dealers are offering people that pre-ordered them $10k on the spot at pickup to sell them back to the dealer so they can resell them even higher. Many pre-order owners are paying the $5k-10k over MSRP dealers are charging them to pick up their orders even on agreed to pricing, because there's simply no other option if you want the truck. Ford won't do anything about it, neither will GM because at the end of the day they claim pricing is between the dealer and the customer, and MSRP is just that, suggested retail pricing.

So if GM makes the ZR2/AT4-x limited enough in nature, and demand is high enough, who knows what people will pay. These days in the car business logic doesn't factor in as much. To me a $70k AT4-X is insane when I can buy a Raptor with 35's and the high package for $73k, but in the market where people paid $75k for an AT4 and $90k for a $65k MSRP Bronco......it probably sounds like a deal.

In other news GM falls even further behind the rest now, the days the 6.2L power being special are gone, it's basically average power with a tiny gas tank. The 2022 Tundra iMax is going to have 435hp, and a whopping 583 ft/lbs torque that's almost 30% more torque in the optional hybrid engine. Not to mention GM is now the only company using 200 year old leaf spring tech, and 1980's sunroofs. Toyota as well has moved to a linkage/coil rear setup and from what it sounds like in some trims air suspension setup that can be leveled based on load, and ride height adjustment for off roading, panoramic sunroof. Plus if you like towing other toys, the TRD pro has 2500 lbs higher towing capacity than an AT4 with a 6.2 and 300 lbs more cargo capacity. Fortunately for GM sales it's really really ugly on the outside.

Edited September 20, 2021 by todd308

econometrics · September 20, 2021

17 hours ago, spizike9 said:

So you think the new ZR2 is going to have a lower MSRP than a loaded LT Trail Boss? I sure hope you’re right because at 60k the ZR2 would be a steal. At 65k it’s pushing it’s limits and anything over that is just meh. Giving pricing on current AT4 and Trail Bosses I just don’t see how that can happen if the only option for a ZR2 is multiflex tailgate.

What's going to be the main differences from a fully loaded LT TB and the ZR2? That's what is left to be determined here. It's possible they will cut down the options on the LT TB to make space for the ZR2.

Right now, it seems the main upgrades with the ZR2 are only:

1" more of ground clearance due to 33" tires vs 32" (probably negligible in price, for the most part)
Electronic lockers
DSSV shocks
Ventilated seats, rear camera mirror, HUD

So I guess I don't see how that would make the ZR2 $5K more in MSRP than the LT TB fully loaded. I think that's the point we're all making... the ZR2 is great, but it's not "next level" like a TRX or Raptor... so it won't be priced anywhere near that.

Edited September 20, 2021 by econometrics

Mawz · September 21, 2021

15 hours ago, econometrics said:

What's going to be the main differences from a fully loaded LT TB and the ZR2? That's what is left to be determined here. It's possible they will cut down the options on the LT TB to make space for the ZR2.

Right now, it seems the main upgrades with the ZR2 are only:

1" more of ground clearance due to 33" tires vs 32" (probably negligible in price, for the most part)

Electronic lockers

DSSV shocks

Ventilated seats, rear camera mirror, HUD

So I guess I don't see how that would make the ZR2 $5K more in MSRP than the LT TB fully loaded. I think that's the point we're all making... the ZR2 is great, but it's not "next level" like a TRX or Raptor... so it won't be priced anywhere near that.

New front high-clearance bumper and a different exhaust setup (higher clearance) for improved approach & departure angles, plus a bunch of software bits (crawl control, 1-pedal driving) that seem to be unique to the ZR2 at least for 2022 (IMHO the software changes should be on the Trail Boss, but don’t appear to be yet)

I’ve said it upthread, but the ZR2 is a LTZ Trail Boss+, not as radical a change as the S10 or Colorado ZR2’s are. There should be real suspension and track changes and there is not.

I do expect it’s going to be $3-5k over an LT Trail Boss, but half that is simply in the fact it’s functionally an LTZ over an LT.

Agreed it’s no TRX or Raptor fighter. The ZR2 goes up against a fully optioned Tremor or Off-road package Rebel, and outshines the new Tundra TRD Pro (which is underwhelming compared to the competition). The Trail Boss struggled in those comparisons because it was limited to LT trim max and was missing real lockers, 33’s and some competitive shocks.

I do think we’ll see a ZR2 Bison at some point, which will be the TRX/Raptor analog.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Mawz

SILVER SLED · September 21, 2021

Are the ZR2 tires really gonna be 33 inch's tall? When the '19's came out with the Trailboss the tires were advertised by GM to be 33's, but they weren't, unless you got 20 inch wheels. Then GM changed the tires on the 20 inch wheel for the TB's to make them smaller. 33" tires are std on all 20" wheeled Silverado's anyway, except the Trailboss's. And the rear bumper "redesign" is just a std bumper that doesn't have the cutouts for the exhaust, which is std on lesser trims. Add a trailer hitch and all the benefits of the "high approach" rear bumper are nullified.

OnTheReel · September 21, 2021

8 minutes ago, SILVER SLED said:

Are the ZR2 tires really gonna be 33 inch's tall? When the '19's came out with the Trailboss the tires were advertised by GM to be 33's, but they weren't, unless you got 20 inch wheels. Then GM changed the tires on the 20 inch wheel for the TB's to make them smaller. 33" tires are std on all 20" wheeled Silverado's anyway, except the Trailboss's. And the rear bumper "redesign" is just a std bumper that doesn't have the cutouts for the exhaust, which is std on lesser trims. Add a trailer hitch and all the benefits of the "high approach" rear bumper are nullified.

If the marketing department at GM could read, they’d be very upset with you now.

But all fair points. Never understood the tire game they played with the TB. The 18s would be the choice of most off-road guys but then they give you a shorter tire than the 20s.

SILVER SLED · September 21, 2021

That hitch protrudes a tad more than the exhaust tips did

Edited September 21, 2021 by SILVER SLED

econometrics · September 21, 2021

6 minutes ago, SILVER SLED said:

That hitch protrudes a tad more than the exhaust tips did

Yeah this, to be, was the most odd decision on the ZR2. It really saves you little to nothing on ground clearance. What do the OEM squished exhaust ports really add to the departure angle right now? .5º? It's like 3/4" or something.

Plus, a bad-A off road truck like this with NO noticeable rear exhaust?! So weird! If they wanted to take away the LOOK of dual exhaust, I hoped they would at least add the GMPE as a standard option for the catback growl.