Here ya go... The 2022 Silverado full reveal!

AlaskaErik · September 14, 2021

6 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

Heck, even the Rubicon is $50K, At least the ones I have seen that have simple features, Nothing fancy and include standard 6 sp manual. If I prices out a diesel then it would be $50k+

I bought my 2015 back in 2015 when they were a lot less expensive. I bought it strictly for off-roading, so I pin-striped it the first weekend I owned it. I can't imagine pin-striping my Silverado, so there's no way I'm ever taking it on back-country trails, not that I want to take a behemoth like that on tight trails.

AlaskaErik · September 14, 2021

6 hours ago, econometrics said:

The world is not "either / or" when it comes to off-roading. There are plenty of amazing, moderately challenging trails that are completely well-suited for a strongly-equipped truck with a longer wheelbase. Imogene Pass comes to mind, as does the majority of the Alpine Loop in CO. Would a Jeep do better on these trails? Sure. But can a well-equipped truck like the Raptor/TRX/ZR2 also do well on them? Yes.

90% of the time, I need a truck in life. But I sure love being able to take vacations in the mountains and drive my own vehicle off road on these trails. It's just rewarding to take your own rig out on the trail.

So why not buy something that can handle moderate trail running, but can also tow your boat around, and can also haul stuff, and can also comfortably sit 4-5 people for a long road trip? Thousands of us decide we want to do that each year as truck owners. And thousands others value the benefits of a Jeep. There's no "> / <" here.

I have two Silverados for that. My Jeep for serious off-roading. But the trails I go on have all kinds of vegetation that will scratch the side of a vehicle, even something as narrow as a Jeep Wrangler. My Jeep is totally pin-striped as a result. Not something I'm willing to put my trucks through.

Edited September 14, 2021 by AlaskaErik

econometrics · September 14, 2021

13 minutes ago, AlaskaErik said:

I have two Silverados for that. My Jeep for serious off-roading. But the trails I go on have all kinds of vegetation that will scratch the side of a vehicle, even something as narrow as a Jeep Wrangler. My Jeep is totally pin-striped as a result. Not something I'm willing to put my trucks through.

Nice. I have one truck. And most people are in the same camp as me.

This is the beauty of a consumer economy… you can have 2 Jeep’s for your needs, others can have one truck for theirs.

econometrics · September 14, 2021

2 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

Smart if they allow it to be equipped to the max, instead of the LT Trail Boss that was always very limited in high end options. People aren’t buying cheap Raptors or TRXs, after all. And the higher equipment level will help differentiate it further from the TB too. The AT4 will be the real loser in the group, not the Trail Boss.

Very smart, indeed. Before the ZR2 announcement, I was shopping for an AT4 for the interior tech it had above and beyond the TB.

But the price kept me on the sidelines, TBH.

With the ZR2, I’m ready to pay for it all. But I am positive the AT4X is going to be Denali-level with off-road tech.

todd308 · September 14, 2021

It's a mistake to think the only thing the TRX and Raptor are good at is desert racing. Plenty of videos showing the Raptor can perform in Moab, even with the torsion limited slip front end, though any full size pickup is kneecapped by its width, wheelbase and angles compared to other non-pickup options. The ZR2 and Raptor have basically the same approach/departure/breakover angles but the Raptor has 1" more ground clearance, 4-5" more wheel travel, 3" more sidewall to air down, and significantly more articulation than the new ZR2 will have, those are significant advantages off road at any speed. The only advantage the ZR2 brings is a front locker verus a torsen limited slip, and 3" less width, and of course not being a Ford. The Raptor also only gives up 40 lbs of payload and 700 lbs towing capacity to the ZR2. If you want towing neither the ZR2 or the Raptor will be a good answer compared to other 1/2 ton options. Not to mention the rear linkage and coil spring setup of the Raptor is better both on and off road, between that and the electronic shock control it's greatly improved it's on road manners for a truck with 15" of wheel travel and articulation that should be even greater than the TRX this year, and the TRX articulation is almost twice what the current AT4 is. Articulation is huge off road on tough trails, it doesn't matter if you can make all 4 wheels spin, if only 3 are on the ground.

That said front and rear electronic lockers are a huge upgrade off-road compared to what GM has been offering. Anyone that's ever limped a G80 up a slippery off camber trail spinning wheels to engage the locker finds out quickly. I was surprised they didn't do something to protect the rear bumper like the Colorado aside just tucking the exhaust up a bit.

I do agree, the ZR2 fills a gap of still offering significant improvement of off-road prowess than the TB/AT4 (Let's face it the TB/AT4 is just an appearance package) and likely still being cheaper by a good amount than the Raptor, the GMC is going to have a harder time with that.

Lets not forget the things you probably still can't get in a ZR2 that aren't off-road you can in a Raptor, including a 36 gal tank, 2000 watt inverter setup, moonroof, hand free driving, adaptive headlights, aux switches wired in, beadlock capable wheels,

The AT4-x will be the most interesting to see what it offers. There was a lot of whining last year that the Denali trim was not really "top of the line" anymore with the AT4 and it sounds like only the Denali will get the supercruise. My guess is GM is going to do more to set the Denali apart as the premier trim. I'd echo again I'm most interested in the AT4-X price, it's going to be a lot harder to keep a significant price delta with the Raptor with the AT4-x than it is the ZR2. From what I see about the only feature the ZR2 doesn't offer that the 21' AT4 does is ventilated seats and a HUD. So I'm curious to see what else they add to the GMC to set it apart and justify the big price gap, or if the water down that difference between the two brands to try and keep a price gap to the Raptor.

kodiakdenali · September 14, 2021

What appeals to me most by far is the console shifter. Having been one of the items on my vehicle comparison that I paid attention to it was one of the things I had to compromise on with the Denali. Then a couple of years later they give me exactly what I wanted...great! I hope it can be found how to retrofit it into the older models. I wonder if the column shifter has any mechanical link to the transmission or if its all electronic?

Paddle shifters are a nice improvement over the awkward buttons on the shifter and I like the larger screen but worthless unless they design the software well.

I absolutely hate the new instrument cluster. There are certain things in automotive design that were never broken and don't need to be fixed, analog gauge clusters are one of them.

econometrics · September 14, 2021

9 hours ago, todd308 said:

From what I see about the only feature the ZR2 doesn't offer that the 21' AT4 does is ventilated seats and a HUD. So I'm curious to see what else they add to the GMC to set it apart and justify the big price gap, or if the water down that difference between the two brands to try and keep a price gap to the Raptor.

ZR2 has HUD and ventilated seats. Watch the TFL video on it, you'll see the switches for them both. I believe it also has the camera mirror. The only thing it will not have that the HC will is Super Cruise and some improved wood in the interior, it seems.

todd308 · September 14, 2021

1 hour ago, econometrics said:

ZR2 has HUD and ventilated seats. Watch the TFL video on it, you'll see the switches for them both. I believe it also has the camera mirror. The only thing it will not have that the HC will is Super Cruise and some improved wood in the interior, it seems.

Thanks for the correction. I watched their walk around and also the pyramid ranking and pretty much agree with it.

While it might seem like I'm hard on the GM's I will say this. If Chevy puts the ZR2 at say a $60k MSRP loaded, and it qualifies for rebates, which basically means it should be OTD for around $60k, all I will say is as soon as it hits the market guys with AT4's better be trading in fast, because used value on AT4's is going to tank and dealer lots are going to be full of used AT4s. I don't see anything the 21' AT4 loaded offers that the ZR2 won't, and the ZR2 has way more off road capability. I can't see any reason I wouldn't dump my AT4 for the ZR2. I'm sure they will put something extra in new AT4-X, but even if they do, the ZR2 will still be a significant upgrade over any current 21' AT4.

Edited September 14, 2021 by todd308

econometrics · September 14, 2021

3 minutes ago, todd308 said:

Thanks for the correction. I watched their walk around and also the pyramid ranking and pretty much agree with it.

While it might seem like I'm hard on the GM's I will say this. If Chevy puts the ZR2 at say a $60k MSRP loaded, and it qualifies for rebates, which basically means it should be OTD for around $60k, all I will say is as soon as it hits the market guys with AT4's better be trading in fast, because used value on AT4's is going to tank. I don't see anything the 21' AT4 loaded offers that the ZR2 won't, and the ZR2 has way more off road capability. I can't see any reason I wouldn't dump my AT4 for the ZR2. I'm sure they will put something extra in new AT4-X, but even if they do, the ZR2 will still be a significant upgrade over any current 21' AT4.

Totally agree. After the ZR2 launch, and seeing how fully-loaded it is (I believe TFL said the only option on it was the multiflex tailgate?!), I am now VERY curious what the AT4 and AT4X is going to offer. Because the ZR2 just jumped into the AT4's shoes (and then some).

Dpach · September 14, 2021

22 minutes ago, todd308 said:

Thanks for the correction. I watched their walk around and also the pyramid ranking and pretty much agree with it.

While it might seem like I'm hard on the GM's I will say this. If Chevy puts the ZR2 at say a $60k MSRP loaded, and it qualifies for rebates, which basically means it should be OTD for around $60k, all I will say is as soon as it hits the market guys with AT4's better be trading in fast, because used value on AT4's is going to tank and dealer lots are going to be full of used AT4s. I don't see anything the 21' AT4 loaded offers that the ZR2 won't, and the ZR2 has way more off road capability. I can't see any reason I wouldn't dump my AT4 for the ZR2. I'm sure they will put something extra in new AT4-X, but even if they do, the ZR2 will still be a significant upgrade over any current 21' AT4.

GM websites have the ZR2 slotted between the LTZ and High Country on their list of models. So that likely means the MSRP will be around where a more loaded LTZ prices, or just below where a base High Country starts.

f8l vnm · September 14, 2021

2 hours ago, todd308 said:

While it might seem like I'm hard on the GM's I will say this. If Chevy puts the ZR2 at say a $60k MSRP loaded, and it qualifies for rebates, which basically means it should be OTD for around $60k,

You do realize a current Trailboss gets to around 60k? with no incentives obviously. And now you want a ZR2 at 60k OTD?

Edited September 14, 2021 by f8l vnm

econometrics · September 15, 2021

55 minutes ago, f8l vnm said:

You do realize a current Trailboss gets to around 60k? with no incentives obviously. And now you want a ZR2 at 60k OTD?

I think it’s very probable.

todd308 · September 15, 2021

I admit OTD was the wrong verbiage for me to use. Show me pricing on a ZR2 that between rebates and supplier pricing and assuming a trade offsets most sales tax, that ends up around $60k. GM Supplier pricing on a basically loaded TB gives them another $5k+ to add on and still meet that threshold. It will be interesting to see what the price is come next year, no one knows what the rebates will be next year and GM might not even allow this trim to qualify for them, and dealers might refuse to honor supplier pricing as many have this year. At that point all the GM's become much closer in effective price to the Raptor because everyone buying GM's is used to significant rebates and deals, where Raptors are always selling much closer to MSRP.

GM's real problem if they price the ZR2 too high, is the GMC AT4-X. If the ZR2 prices at say $65k, that means the AT4-x is probably going to come in at $70k. An almost loaded Raptor, if you can live without 37's, moonroof, and 2kw inverter is $72k.

You have to figure GM knows they need to leave room for a significant price gap for the AT4-x to the Raptor. No one but GM fanboys are going to pay $70k for an GMC badged ZR2 if a nicely equipped Raptor is basically the same price. Now GM could kneecap the GMC brand and not add anything significant to it over the ZR2 and keep the AT4-X MSRP down much closer to the ZR2, but then you lose GMC sales because it's no longer the "premium" brand if it's the same features with a GMC badge.

f8l vnm · September 15, 2021

30 minutes ago, todd308 said:

.

GM's real problem if they price the ZR2 too high, is the GMC AT4-X. If the ZR2 prices at say $65k, that means the AT4-x is probably going to come in at $70k. An almost loaded Raptor, if you can live without 37's, moonroof, and 2kw inverter is $72k.

AT4-x to the Raptor. No one but GM fanboys are going to pay $70k for an GMC badged ZR2 if a nicely equipped Raptor is basically the same price. Now GM could kneecap the GMC brand and not add anything significant to it over the ZR2 and keep the AT4-X MSRP down much closer to the ZR2, but then you lose GMC sales because it's no longer the "premium" brand if it's the same features with a GMC badge.

Mate. A fully loaded Raptor is around 83k now. This is 3rd Gen. and no way in hell will you find a dealer right who will give you a great deal on Raptor.

I also don’t get why the ZR2 can’t be the AT4X direct cousin? Especially seeing how the ZR2 could also be based off the LTZ. Both have great offroad chops but will look different. There are some people out there who won’t drive a Chevy but think the GMC is superior brand. I do see the AT4X will get same Goodyear tires as the ZR2

todd308 · September 15, 2021

Do I really need to post screenshots from Ford's build website? Without the 37's you can easily keep a Raptor under $75k MSRP with the high package, as long as you don't get the 37" tire package, unless you start stacking on ridiculous stuff like $3k rim upgrades, $2k tonneau covers, etc. Now can you find a dealer willing to sell one without marking it up more than MSRP right now, maybe not, but the same can be said for many vehicles right now.

When I bought my 21' in May everyone said there was no way to get deals on an AT4s, and I did, you just have to find the right dealer, full rebates and full supplier pricing. I'd be willing to bet if you look you can find Ford dealers willing to sell a Raptor without marking it over MSRP. Just like right now some dealers have Bronco's marked at $90k and others are happy to sell them with associate discounts under MSRP.

GM can choose to water down the GMC brand and basically make it an appearance only difference, especially now that the half tons look significantly different. It would be an interesting move, but it would allow them to keep a price gap to the raptor in both brands.

Now if you really want to impress me, since Chevy doesn't have a trailboss version of the Tahoe, but there's already an AT4 Yukon, show me a ZR2 Tahoe.

Edited September 15, 2021 by todd308