Hitch Pin Weight

[Steve T]

Newbie here - I have a question about pin weight and rear axle payload.  I have scoured the internet and get more confused the more I read.

 

Basics.  My 2020 HD Duramax has a Max tongue weight (gooseneck and I assume 5th wheel hitch as well) of 2775 #'s. RGAWR of 6600 #'s and max payload of 3444 #'s.

 

Assume hitch weight of 125#'s.  Assuming another 300lbs of misc weight (fuel, etc) and subtract all of this from the payload (3444-125-300= 3019 lbs)  is it reasonable and safe to assume I could tow a 5th wheel with a pin weight a little under 3000 lbs?

 

I don't exceed any of the other recommended gross weights on the label on the door panel.  Basically, just trying to figure out if I can tow a pin weight a couple hundred piunds over the recommended weight if I dont exceed the payload capacity.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Grjfer]

56 minutes ago, Steve T said:

Newbie here - I have a question about pin weight and rear axle payload.  I have scoured the internet and get more confused the more I read.

 

Basics.  My 2020 HD Duramax has a Max tongue weight (gooseneck and I assume 5th wheel hitch as well) of 2775 #'s. RGAWR of 6600 #'s and max payload of 3444 #'s.

 

Assume hitch weight of 125#'s.  Assuming another 300lbs of misc weight (fuel, etc) and subtract all of this from the payload (3444-125-300= 3019 lbs)  is it reasonable and safe to assume I could tow a 5th wheel with a pin weight a little under 3000 lbs?

 

I don't exceed any of the other recommended gross weights on the label on the door panel.  Basically, just trying to figure out if I can tow a pin weight a couple hundred piunds over the recommended weight if I dont exceed the payload capacity.

 

Thanks in advance.

No because you have not factored your weight as the driver and any other passengers and gear/cargo. 

[nards444]

For one you can physically haul more than the numbers say,  just like elevators the numbers are always lower than what they can do.  Now going over weight IMO is not a good idea consistently,  you open yourself up to liability and frankly wearing down your equipment faster,  not to mention DOT or insurances issues, although I feel like these are old wives tales by many.

 

But with that said yes anything you put on the truck goes against payload.  They figure 20-25% of your fifth wheel trailer weight will be on the pin,  and you have to count hitch.

 

I think your undercounting what weight you can haul and your payload though.  Gas is already included as in fuel for the truck, unless your talking gas cans.  But in your equation your number is probably much higher as you have to include everything in that truck that didnt come with it.  Tool boxes,  glove box stuff etc,  I always figure 200 lbs.  The big things you missed is the people they count too, and a family of four with a dog is easily 5-800lbs.  Did you bring a cooler, etc.  My guess is your payload capacity is much closer to 2000 than 3000.  Where did you put their bags,  kids have 5-10lbs of travel stuff on them.  etc

 

With a 3000lb pin weight, your basically hauling that trailer by yourself both legally and perhaps safely. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by nards444

[Random]

You shouldn't be exceeding any of those weight numbers, as that's what the manufacturer has deemed safe for what your truck can tow. Max payload does not equal max tongue weight. Everything in your truck, including family, luggage, camping gear, etc. count towards your payload totals.

 

Know that your truck can tow/haul more weight than what the sticker says, but it's not something anyone would recommend. You'd probably be safe, but you are also introducing extra liability in the event you get into an accident or cause one. Also know that you can't "add" payload capacity to your truck by adding helpers such as airbags or Timbrens, these are only for adding load stability.

 

Glad to see  you are taking the time to ask the questions and learning about load capacities. Too many buy a truck, look at the max towing weight and let the dealer talk them into something that they really shouldn't be towing.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Random

[Steve T]

All good responses and I get the extra baggage, people , etc.  I dont really have a lot of extra weight or baggage and if I did, I would put it in the rear of the camper so as not to add to the hitch pin weight.  It doesn't get towed a lot - bsaically sits in an rv park 6 months of the year in the mountains then maybe back home.

 

My issue is the wifey likes a specific design that;s about 150#'s over the pin weight recommendation.  I was just trying to figure out that if I stay below the rear axle capacity by at least 200 lbs does it matter if the "pin" weight is 200 lbs over.

 

Thanks for the comments - shout out to JAY  WPS! as I'm originally from AR.

[Random]

Is the pin weight you are looking at based upon the gross trailer weight? If so, then you may be okay with towing this particular camper as long as you are not pushing it's max gross. You typically figure your pin weight at 15%-20% of your trailers current weight. If you aren't loading it down, then you aren't adding as much to the pin. Ideally you'd weigh your entire rig loaded with a scale to get a true reading on the axles, but you can always do a paper exercise by looking at the campers dry weight and adding everything you plan on loading into it and taking 20% of that as your pin weight.

[Steve T]

Thanks Random.  The dry weight pin is about 2930 lbs's on the trailer.  I haven't bought it as I'm trying to asses the pros and cons, specifically the extra 200 lbs above the recommended chevy pin number.  I wouldn't trust a dealer to tell me "no problem" and i get the readings on the scales but since I haven't bought it I can't do that just yet - trying to avoid a big surprise.  UI'm pretty sure I can offset any additional weigh added by keeping a 2 to 1 ratio of new weight behind the trailer axles   I would guess we wouldn't put more than 1000 lbs in the trailer so about 700 in the back - should keep the pin weight close to 2900 lbs but I'm no expert, just playing with math.

 

I purchased my truck about 18 months ago and other than some warranty repairs, I really like it.  Wasn't thinking about a 5er at that time as we have a 34' travel trailer and it tows great.  I would give up the desired 5th wheel before giving up my truck

 

Thanks again, this has been very helpful.

[JimCost2014]

1 hour ago, Steve T said:

I would put it in the rear of the camper so as not to add to the hitch pin weight.

Honestly, that sounds kind of good in theory, but you are trading one evil for another.

Maybe the weight on the pin may seem less, but now you have made your trailer much more unstable by not being loaded evenly above the axles.

Edited August 11, 2021 by JimCost2014

[redwngr]

The labels are specific to the vin number of the truck.

 

Trailering info Label lists:

GVWR

GCWR

RGAWR

CURB WEIGHT

 

SAE J2807 Trailer weight rating

 - Conventional TWR

 -- Max tongue weight (for conventional)

 - Gooseneck TWR 

-- max tongue weight (for gooseneck)

 

 

Second  label has:

GVWR,

GAWR FRT,

GAWR RR

Tires (and rim) sizes it was equipped with 

QR code -- which will have the key RPO codes for the truck (can be read with many phone QR Reader apps)

 

And third is the label that lists the tire pressures for when it is at rated loads. 

 

 

None of the listed ratings should be exceeded.

It is normally not possible to have all the truck/trailer ratings at max. 

 

The limitation will be the rating that is reached first.  

We aren't supposed to pick and choose which ratings we respect and which we ignore. 

 

If the rating is 2775# gooseneck/5th wheel pin weight, then that is the heaviest pin weight.

Max payload number assumes that the balance of the payload is distributed on the truck so that the front and rear axle weight ratings are not exceeded. 

 

 

A 3500 SRW will have a little higher ratings. 

A 3500 DRW will have a lot higher ratings.

[nards444]

4 hours ago, JimCost2014 said:

Honestly, that sounds kind of good in theory, but you are trading one evil for another.

Maybe the weight on the pin may seem less, but now you have made your trailer much more unstable by not being loaded evenly above the axles.

True and Im not sure you can play it that way.  A travel trailer even if you dont fill it with water,  will easily have a 1000lbs of stuff in it.   so before you load this trailer you are already over weight. 

 

I mean if it were me and it was in and out once a year maybe i would do it.  But then again it might be cheaper to not buy a big truck and have somebody else move it for a few bucks a couple time of years.

[Carolina]

For what it’s worth I use to haul 14 bails of hay (12k) on a 3500# equipment trailer with a 1979 k10 that was rated at 6500# towing capacity with 388 stroker , no electric brakes . Straight bumper pull , didn’t even have a hitch . I think the bumper was rated for 5000-6000#. I rarely went over 55mph . It would drag the crap out of it. The 90’s were different 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Carolina

[nards444]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:31 AM, Carolina said:

For what it’s worth I use to haul 14 bails of hay (12k) on a 3500# equipment trailer with a 1979 k10 that was rated at 6500# towing capacity with 388 stroker , no electric brakes . Straight bumper pull , didn’t even have a hitch . I think the bumper was rated for 5000-6000#. I rarely went over 55mph . It would drag the crap out of it. The 90’s were different 

 

Lol farm stuff roles around here that looks questionable.  Difference today is things move much faster down the road and things are much heavier then they used to be.  TBH if it was here and there and the weight was in the hundreds I would probably haul it.  But if it were over by 1000 or more I probably wouldnt, specially if we were dealing with winding roads, mountain etc.  There is safety of both people and equipment that as I get older sort of makes more sense now.

 

People like to sue as well, and there is a lot of jacks on the highway getting into who has the biggest 5th wheel contest and even with some 2500s look overweight and I can ensure you if they were to crash into me, and hurt or kill somebody I would take everything they had.

[nards444]

On 8/11/2021 at 3:54 PM, Steve T said:

All good responses and I get the extra baggage, people , etc.  I dont really have a lot of extra weight or baggage and if I did, I would put it in the rear of the camper so as not to add to the hitch pin weight.  It doesn't get towed a lot - bsaically sits in an rv park 6 months of the year in the mountains then maybe back home.

 

My issue is the wifey likes a specific design that;s about 150#'s over the pin weight recommendation.  I was just trying to figure out that if I stay below the rear axle capacity by at least 200 lbs does it matter if the "pin" weight is 200 lbs over.

 

Thanks for the comments - shout out to JAY  WPS! as I'm originally from AR.

 

Keep in mind anything you put in that trailer will add to pin weight.  Yes if its up front it will probably be pound of pound.  Put in the rear you may not be pound of pound but you are still adding pin weight whether you like it or not.

[Njmurvin]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:36 PM, Steve T said:

 The dry weight pin is about 2930 lbs's on the trailer.  I haven't bought it as I'm trying to asses the pros and cons, specifically the extra 200 lbs above the recommended chevy pin number.

If the trailer's "dry" pin weight is already over your rated pin weight capacity, then this may be too much trailer for your truck. Unlike your truck, my understanding is that a trailer's published ratings are not adjusted for optional equipment. So, it's likely that your pin weight is higher even before adding water, your cargo and other stuff to the trailer.

 

My LT 3500 SRW max gooseneck pin weight is only 3180 lbs (3895 lbs payload).  So, loaded, that trailer may be in dually territory.  That said, I'd be curious to know how GM accounts for ~700 lbs difference between max payload and max pin weight. Come to think of it - a couple of people, an 85 lb labrador retriever and a Pullrite Superglide would come pretty close.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Njmurvin

[nards444]

On 8/21/2021 at 3:34 PM, Njmurvin said:

If the trailer's "dry" pin weight is already over your rated pin weight capacity, then this may be too much trailer for your truck. Unlike your truck, my understanding is that a trailer's published ratings are not adjusted for optional equipment. So, it's likely that your pin weight is higher even before adding water, your cargo and other stuff to the trailer.

 

My LT 3500 SRW max gooseneck pin weight is only 3180 lbs (3895 lbs payload).  So, loaded, that trailer may be in dually territory.  That said, I'd be curious to know how GM accounts for ~700 lbs difference between max payload and max pin weight. Come to think of it - a couple of people, an 85 lb labrador retriever and a Pullrite Superglide would come pretty close.

 

All the manufactures are somewhat disengenuinous on their tow ratings.  They spit out numbers where half of it doesnt matter, and they always throw out towing capacity which again really doesnt matter.  Payload really is the only number and people will bust that before towing capacity. 

 

But then it seems the cool thing to do is get the 85 ft foot fifth wheel rolling down the road.