Oil related engine failure

KARNUT · June 28, 2021

Oil, oil changes and filters have been hyper discussed often on this site. Got me thinking. How many people have lost an engine to the wrong oil? Or even to extended oil changes? Iv been driving for over 45 years. Lost one engine. Ram V-10. Not related to oil.

tsdrumm · July 4, 2021

I lost a 305 in my 95 C1500 when the adapter that bolts into the block that the oil filter screwed onto let go as I was driving down the road. I dumped all the oil out and even though I pulled over as soon as the oil pressure dropped I burned the rod bearings enough to justify replacement. GM warrantied it. So not because of the oil or too long between changes, but sort of oil related.

Grumpy Bear · July 5, 2021

Ah man...now you went and did it. You took the bait.

From the AMSOIL site but taught in school...

The function of oil in an internal combustion engine IS?????

https://blog.amsoil.com/do-you-know-the-seven-responsibilities-of-a-motor-oil/

1.) Minimize friction to reduce wear

2.) Clean

3.) Cool

4.) From a seal

5) Dampen shock

6.) Prevent corrosion

7.) Transfer energy

If it fails in any of these tasks the resultant failure is oil related.

When GM started the DEXOS license system the specs were set to BETTER those specified by the SAE. Ergo GM got to set the standard the oil was to meet AND set the intervals it was to be changed as AND set the standard of what qualified as 'normal' or 'severe' operation so the owner had COMPLETE guidance on the maintenance of his pride and joy.

That now firmly established ANY oil that meets the licensing standard AND paid in full for that privilege better be able to 'go the required distance' without causing harm.

How's that working out? GM has been sued, and lost, on excessive oil usage concerning the GM Ecotec I4 motors. Their reply? SHORTER OCI's and few minor mechanical changes AND extended warranty AND now???? being sued again SO they just dump the motor platform entirely.

You see ring sticking from CARBONIZED oils left in longer than the base and additive packages can tolerate just happens to be....wait for it......

An oil related FAILURE

You don't have to knock a rod out to have an oil related failure. A failure to CLEAN and keep CLEAN so that a VLOM mistimes a switching event crashing lifters and cam is?????? An oil related failure.

IF a shorter OCI prevents these sorts of failures then shorter just makes good sense.

But you can't get that point across to the senseless.

I own two of these Ecotec I4 motors. Changed oil SOONER than the OEM asked in the one with the most miles, 5K or 2/3's the OLM. Used Quaker State Ultimate Durability, a DEXOS licensed and approved oil. Used WIX or Purolator filters. It's my wife's Terrain who drives like the average American and......ring packs collapsed from varnish/carbon. This kids is an OIL RELATED FAILURE.

Now move on!

KARNUT · July 5, 2021

8 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Ah man...now you went and did it. You took the bait.

From the AMSOIL site but taught in school...

The function of oil in an internal combustion engine IS?????

https://blog.amsoil.com/do-you-know-the-seven-responsibilities-of-a-motor-oil/

1.) Minimize friction to reduce wear

2.) Clean

3.) Cool

4.) From a seal

5) Dampen shock

6.) Prevent corrosion

7.) Transfer energy

If it fails in any of these tasks the resultant failure is oil related.

When GM started the DEXOS license system the specs were set to BETTER those specified by the SAE. Ergo GM got to set the standard the oil was to meet AND set the intervals it was to be changed as AND set the standard of what qualified as 'normal' or 'severe' operation so the owner had COMPLETE guidance on the maintenance of his pride and joy.

That now firmly established ANY oil that meets the licensing standard AND paid in full for that privilege better be able to 'go the required distance' without causing harm.

How's that working out? GM has been sued, and lost, on excessive oil usage concerning the GM Ecotec I4 motors. Their reply? SHORTER OCI's and few minor mechanical changes AND extended warranty AND now???? being sued again SO they just dump the motor platform entirely.

You see ring sticking from CARBONIZED oils left in longer than the base and additive packages can tolerate just happens to be....wait for it......

An oil related FAILURE

You don't have to knock a rod out to have an oil related failure. A failure to CLEAN and keep CLEAN so that a VLOM mistimes a switching event crashing lifters and cam is?????? An oil related failure.

IF a shorter OCI prevents these sorts of failures then shorter just makes good sense.

But you can't get that point across to the senseless.

I own two of these Ecotec I4 motors. Changed oil SOONER than the OEM asked in the one with the most miles, 5K or 2/3's the OLM. Used Quaker State Ultimate Durability, a DEXOS licensed and approved oil. Used WIX or Purolator filters. It's my wife's Terrain who drives like the average American and......ring packs collapsed from varnish/carbon. This kids is an OIL RELATED FAILURE.

Now move on!

I remember back in the seventies I owned several used Impalas. I would change the intake 2to4 barrel. Every one had build up gunk. All had 3K oil changes. After a short time with me no gunk. Same oil, same change intervals. Difference was driving style and heat. I read your problems with the wife’s car. You say it’s a design flaw. I agree. You add cleaner use different types of oil it’s still going. It’s not the fault of the oil. I offer my experience with hundreds of engines gas and diesels. You claim one size fits all. All the while you have a vehicle the frequent oil changes wasn’t the answer. I’m not claiming I’m always right, like you. I’m offering an experience result in real world testing and usage. The baffling thing to me is you alone on this site know my background. Back when I thought you could handle a little reasonable back on forth. What’s really amusing is there are plenty of manufacturers that have different OCIs. Some with extended. All my vehicles have different OCIs. The difference isn’t the oil, it’s the engine. I don’t know how you took this thread personal. It wasn’t. Get over yourself.

Donstar · July 5, 2021

^^^ I think you read GB's post with an unknown bias. I can not see how it could be upsetting. The oil stories remind me of my first car; a 56 Austin. My brother-in-law had a new 67 Falcon and he changed oil too frequently in my opinion. I remember taking his used oil and putting it into my Austin! Neither vehicle gave us oil related failure. However this test is not valid as the 56 was scrapped and the 67 was sold in a relatively short period of time.

KARNUT · July 5, 2021

1 hour ago, Donstar said:

^^^ I think you read GB's post with an unknown bias. I can not see how it could be upsetting. The oil stories remind me of my first car; a 56 Austin. My brother-in-law had a new 67 Falcon and he changed oil too frequently in my opinion. I remember taking his used oil and putting it into my Austin! Neither vehicle gave us oil related failure. However this test is not valid as the 56 was scrapped and the 67 was sold in a relatively short period of time.

I trained people to operate our equipment my last 20 working years. I met many know it all’s in that time. I have no biases. Iv seen many personalities. I’ve gotten use to name calling. It doesn’t happen to my face. He claims I shadow him. It’s opposite. I’ll answer threads I want whether he does or not. Upsetting, hardly. Amusing yes.

KARNUT · July 5, 2021

8 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I trained people to operate our equipment my last 20 working years. I met many know it all’s in that time. I have no biases. Iv seen many personalities. I’ve gotten use to name calling. It doesn’t happen to my face. He claims I shadow him. It’s opposite. I’ll answer threads I want whether he does or not. Upsetting, hardly. Amusing yes.

I mite add I believe it’s bias to say don’t trust any oil past 5K miles. I dispute that. That’s my sin according to the mighty GB. Funny though I’m not alone in that thinking. But that of course is an conspiracy. Please.

Grumpy Bear · July 6, 2021

21 hours ago, Donstar said:

^^^ I think you read GB's post with an unknown bias. I can not see how it could be upsetting. The oil stories remind me of my first car; a 56 Austin. My brother-in-law had a new 67 Falcon and he changed oil too frequently in my opinion. I remember taking his used oil and putting it into my Austin! Neither vehicle gave us oil related failure. However this test is not valid as the 56 was scrapped and the 67 was sold in a relatively short period of time.

Group II oils originated in 1971. Yes, before this date Group I was all there was and it a process that was 'born' in the early 1930's. So with that in mind reframe the Falcon/Austin experience.

During the 1950's ZDDP's advantages were discovered; as a anti-wear agent, as an anticorrosive and as an antioxidant. And yet motors with less than 100K on their clocks needed a 'ridge ream' to remove the pistons bore wear was so bad. In the next decade the sermons for extended oil changes would begin with the release in greater degree the new Group III oils and Mobil's push with the release of the first PAO in 1976 and for a while the world was right. Great base stocks and high levels of detergents and wear additives with a good dose of antacids to facilitate it all.

Then Mobil looses it's lawsuit with Castrol and the games begin. Mobil swaps PAO out for Group III and Ester for Group II and in an other few decades the EPA would start it's war on the very additives that proved to be to little pre 70 with bases now digressing to pre 70 chemistries.

To save face Big Oi lies....again....starting the rumors that ZZDP in high levels was HARMFULL. To the cat system in a motor that uses oil yes but to the motor nothing could be further from the truth. ZZDP is not just anti-wear but ANTIOXIDANT as well and Group II, now once again a large part of the bottle would no longer be getting that help it had been getting since the mid 1950's effectively SHORTENING the OCI's back to pre 70's levels.

And yet the the lie continues. The haters hate and ignorance abounds more.

There are fewer than the number of fingers on one hand of oils left in the world whose chemistry will endure and even they will not go forever.

Don you nailed in in the bold of your story. And I'll make this additional statement. DIESEL motors have a much longer natural life span. MUCH harder cylinders and proportion of dimensions. If gas motors were built like a diesel million mile adventures would be a dime a dozen. These guys like to compare apples to oranges and will fight to the death they are the same fruit.

KARNUT · July 6, 2021

19 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Group II oils originated in 1971. Yes, before this date Group I was all there was and it a process that was 'born' in the early 1930's. So with that in mind reframe the Falcon/Austin experience.

During the 1950's ZDDP's advantages were discovered; as a anti-wear agent, as an anticorrosive and as an antioxidant. And yet motors with less than 100K on their clocks needed a 'ridge ream' to remove the pistons bore wear was so bad. In the next decade the sermons for extended oil changes would begin with the release in greater degree the new Group III oils and Mobil's push with the release of the first PAO in 1976 and for a while the world was right. Great base stocks and high levels of detergents and wear additives with a good dose of antacids to facilitate it all.

Then Mobil looses it's lawsuit with Castrol and the games begin. Mobil swaps PAO out for Group III and Ester for Group II and in an other few decades the EPA would start it's war on the very additives that proved to be to little pre 70 with bases now digressing to pre 70 chemistries.

To save face Big Oi lies....again....starting the rumors that ZZDP in high levels was HARMFULL. To the cat system in a motor that uses oil yes but to the motor nothing could be further from the truth. ZZDP is not just anti-wear but ANTIOXIDANT as well and Group II, now once again a large part of the bottle would no longer be getting that help it had been getting since the mid 1950's effectively SHORTENING the OCI's back to pre 70's levels.

And yet the the lie continues. The haters hate and ignorance abounds more.

There are fewer than the number of fingers on one hand of oils left in the world whose chemistry will endure and even they will not go forever.

Don you nailed in in the bold of your story. And I'll make this additional statement. DIESEL motors have a much longer natural life span. MUCH harder cylinders and proportion of dimensions. If gas motors were built like a diesel million mile adventures would be a dime a dozen. These guys like to compare apples to oranges and will fight to the death they are the same fruit.

I have 4 vehicles with different oil change intervals. Most wouldn’t see 7K miles a year. Once a year changes. The Honda CRV will, the trip car. I dislike the car, it was free. Mother in law quit driving. 5 year old car, 5K miles. Wife runs her around. So she got the car. She rather drive her Genesis. I rather drive the 02 Avalanche. I’m rambling so to the point. It’s changed intervals is 10K miles just like my Toyota. Two of the most trusted brands. And the longest lasting. I’m not saying you’re an idiot, like you have called me and others. And I appreciate your write ups. The amusing and dedication to your wife’s car. I admit I would have traded it. When manufacturers and oil companies say some vehicles can go extended. And some guy on the net say idiots go extended. That’s where you lose me. I’ve done it, done the testing. Will I do it with every vehicle no. Some yes. Iv used all Amsoil oils for example. I’m not putting in extended oil in a vehicle that gets driven low mileage yearly. They have an oil for that. I’m rambling again. I made my point.