Fumoto Valves

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, AlaskaErik said:

  Valvomax may look appealing...until you actually use it.  

 

Because? 

 

 

Installed recently on my truck. 

 

 

 

[AlaskaErik]

On 6/11/2021 at 10:13 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Because? 

 

 

Installed recently on my truck. 

 

 

 

I'm trying to come up with one advantage this has over a Fumoto for Silverado/Sierra applications.  The video totally overlooks the fact that you have to change the oil filter too, so their little oil collection bag is useless for that.  And that flimsy paper funnel is a joke.  The Fumoto does not require a detachable hose fitting that can get lost or misplaced or forgotten on a road trip.  Sure, you can just remove the valve, but now you're back to a messy oil change, and you'll need a new crush washer when reinstalling.  With the Fumoto, you can drain your oil anywhere, anytime by simply turning the spring-loaded lever a quarter turn.  Valvomax is a solution in search of a problem that was already solved by Fumoto in a much simpler and less expensive way.   

[Black02Silverado]

37 minutes ago, AlaskaErik said:

I'm trying to come up with one advantage this has over a Fumoto for Silverado/Sierra applications.  The video totally overlooks the fact that you have to change the oil filter too, so their little oil collection bag is useless for that.  And that flimsy paper funnel is a joke.  The Fumoto does not require a detachable hose fitting that can get lost or misplaced or forgotten on a road trip.  Sure, you can just remove the valve, but now you're back to a messy oil change, and you'll need a new crush washer when reinstalling.  With the Fumoto, you can drain your oil anywhere, anytime by simply turning the spring-loaded lever a quarter turn.  Valvomax is a solution in search of a problem that was already solved by Fumoto in a much simpler and less expensive way.   

To me it is just a matter of giving everyone a choice.  Choose the one you like best for your reasons and go with it.  Some like this over the Fumoto and some like the Fumoto over this.  Either way the customer is the one that is happy. 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, AlaskaErik said:

I'm trying to come up with one advantage this has over a Fumoto for Silverado/Sierra applications.  The video totally overlooks the fact that you have to change the oil filter too, so their little oil collection bag is useless for that.  And that flimsy paper funnel is a joke.  The Fumoto does not require a detachable hose fitting that can get lost or misplaced or forgotten on a road trip.  Sure, you can just remove the valve, but now you're back to a messy oil change, and you'll need a new crush washer when reinstalling.  With the Fumoto, you can drain your oil anywhere, anytime by simply turning the spring-loaded lever a quarter turn.  Valvomax is a solution in search of a problem that was already solved by Fumoto in a much simpler and less expensive way.   

 

 

I suppose if your the type that looses parts to his truck then yea...stay with the ball valve setup. Question then; before the ball valve system did you loose the wrench for for the drain plug? Forget the drain pan? Oil filter wrench? You change oil on the road it what a ditch? 

 

 

[AlaskaErik]

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

 

I suppose if your the type that looses parts to his truck then yea...stay with the ball valve setup. Question then; before the ball valve system did you loose the wrench for for the drain plug? Forget the drain pan? Oil filter wrench? You change oil on the road it what a ditch? 

 

 

You can ask all the rhetorical questions you want, but I'm still not seeing one single advantage that a much more expensive setup like the ValvoMax offers over the Fumoto on the Silverado/Sierra.  You still need to deal with the oil filter and all the oil that drains out with it.  So what's the advantage of their oil bag?  I don't blame ValvoMax for not addressing the oil filter issue in their video, although it is a bit disingenuous to do so.  Most DIY people already have everything they need to do an oil change.  The Fumoto and the ValvoMax just simplify the job and make it faster and less messy.  But the Fumoto is less expensive and less complicated and has a proven track record.  I'm all about new technology, but it has to offer me some kind of benefit.  And the ValvoMax offers nothing over the Fumoto.

[puppykat33]

here is your oil filter solution

https://www.lastdropwrench.com/

 

You don't half to use the valvomax oil collection bag, the unit just comes with the plug and drain tube. You can order the oil bag if you like its not required

[Grumpy Bear]

10 hours ago, AlaskaErik said:

You can ask all the rhetorical questions you want, but I'm still not seeing one single advantage that a much more expensive setup like the ValvoMax offers over the Fumoto on the Silverado/Sierra.  You still need to deal with the oil filter and all the oil that drains out with it.  So what's the advantage of their oil bag?  I don't blame ValvoMax for not addressing the oil filter issue in their video, although it is a bit disingenuous to do so.  Most DIY people already have everything they need to do an oil change.  The Fumoto and the ValvoMax just simplify the job and make it faster and less messy.  But the Fumoto is less expensive and less complicated and has a proven track record.  I'm all about new technology, but it has to offer me some kind of benefit.  And the ValvoMax offers nothing over the Fumoto.

 

Enjoy your buy. 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

10 hours ago, AlaskaErik said:

You can ask all the rhetorical questions you want, but I'm still not seeing one single advantage that a much more expensive setup like the ValvoMax offers over the Fumoto on the Silverado/Sierra.  You still need to deal with the oil filter and all the oil that drains out with it.  So what's the advantage of their oil bag?  I don't blame ValvoMax for not addressing the oil filter issue in their video, although it is a bit disingenuous to do so.  Most DIY people already have everything they need to do an oil change.  The Fumoto and the ValvoMax just simplify the job and make it faster and less messy.  But the Fumoto is less expensive and less complicated and has a proven track record.  I'm all about new technology, but it has to offer me some kind of benefit.  And the ValvoMax offers nothing over the Fumoto.

 

1.) 304 SS instead of brass. Will not corrode nor interfere with UOA results. Harder to strip threads.

2.) Does not require indexing with washers to keep the handle out of the fluid stream should it happen to end up on the bottom 120 degrees when torqued to spec

3.) 24 mm nut to permit torque to 216 lb/in 

4.) Larger throat for quicker dump

5.) Does not require a wrench to remove a plug or cap.

6.) Infinite throttling, Handy for sample taking. Handy for allot of things.

                         No ball valves are not throttling devices. Open or closed. 

7.) Much larger sealing surface. Dead soft alloy washer included!

8.) Self contained dust cap.

If you're not capping then UOA is suspect.

Hard to loose  tethered cap. 

9.) Knurled dust cap of a large diameter that does not require a wrench.

10.) Spring loaded check ball that adjust for wear. 

11.) Stainless seat and bearing steel seal nearly impervious to wear to begin with.

12.) But what I really bought it for was to redirect the stream away form the roll bar 

 

This noise about oil filters and paper funnels is silly. Has ZERO to do with the assembly itself. 

 

Hope that's a long enough list for you Erik.

Remember.....you asked and you asked an engineer.

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

[AlaskaErik]

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

1.) 304 SS instead of brass. Will not corrode nor interfere with UOA results. Harder to strip threads.

Never had my brass Fumoto valves corrode.

2.) Does not require indexing with washers to keep the handle out of the fluid stream should it happen to end up on the bottom 120 degrees when torqued to spec

Never indexed my Fumoto.  With a drain hose attached there is no fluid stream issue.

3.) 24 mm nut to permit torque to 216 lb/in 

A quarter turn past first contact is all that's needed.  No torque wrench needed.

4.) Larger throat for quicker dump

There is no appreciable difference in dump speed between the two.  I let mine drain until it stops dripping. 

5.) Does not require a wrench to remove a plug or cap.

Neither does the Fumoto.

6.) Infinite throttling, Handy for sample taking. Handy for allot of things.

                         No ball valves are not throttling devices. Open or closed

Yes, you can control the rate of flow with a ball valve.  Just don't open it all the way!  I would think an engineer would know that.

7.) Much larger sealing surface. Dead soft alloy washer included!

Never had a Fumoto leak, so there is no sealing issue whatsoever.

8.) Self contained dust cap.

If you're not capping then UOA is suspect.

Hard to loose  tethered cap.

You can cap a Fumoto if you so choose.  Fumoto sells them or you can make your own for pennies. 

9.) Knurled dust cap of a large diameter that does not require a wrench.

Fumoto dust doesn't require a wrench either.

10.) Spring loaded check ball that adjust for wear.

Never had a Fumoto wear out in over 20 years of using them.  And I'll take a ball valve over a check ball any day.  I had a check ball system before I discovered Fumoto and it got clogged up and had to be removed from service.   

11.) Stainless seat and bearing steel seal nearly impervious to wear to begin with.

Again, never had a Fumoto wear out in over 20 years.  

12.) But what I really bought it for was to redirect the stream away form the roll bar 

Attaching a hose to the nipple on the Fumoto accomplishes the exact same thing, at half the price.

 

This noise about oil filters and paper funnels is silly. Has ZERO to do with the assembly itself. 

You still have to deal with replacing the oil filter, the oil that drips down the filter during removal and adding fresh oil, which isn't silly.

 

Hope that's a long enough list for you Erik.

Remember.....you asked and you asked an engineer.

Now you have an accountant's perspective.

 

 

 

So after all that, I'm still not seeing anything that would have me switch over to ValvoMax.  From a bean counter's perspective the Fumoto is the better value.

[Grumpy Bear]

5 hours ago, AlaskaErik said:

So after all that, I'm still not seeing anything that would have me switch over to ValvoMax.  From a bean counter's perspective the Fumoto is the better value.

 

5 hours ago, AlaskaErik said:

1.) 304 SS instead of brass. Will not corrode nor interfere with UOA results. Harder to strip threads.

Never had my brass Fumoto valves corrode.

2.) Does not require indexing with washers to keep the handle out of the fluid stream should it happen to end up on the bottom 120 degrees when torqued to spec

Never indexed my Fumoto.  With a drain hose attached there is no fluid stream issue.

3.) 24 mm nut to permit torque to 216 lb/in 

A quarter turn past first contact is all that's needed.  No torque wrench needed.

4.) Larger throat for quicker dump

There is no appreciable difference in dump speed between the two.  I let mine drain until it stops dripping. 

5.) Does not require a wrench to remove a plug or cap.

Neither does the Fumoto.

6.) Infinite throttling, Handy for sample taking. Handy for allot of things.

                         No ball valves are not throttling devices. Open or closed

Yes, you can control the rate of flow with a ball valve.  Just don't open it all the way!  I would think an engineer would know that.

7.) Much larger sealing surface. Dead soft alloy washer included!

Never had a Fumoto leak, so there is no sealing issue whatsoever.

8.) Self contained dust cap.

If you're not capping then UOA is suspect.

Hard to loose  tethered cap.

You can cap a Fumoto if you so choose.  Fumoto sells them or you can make your own for pennies. 

9.) Knurled dust cap of a large diameter that does not require a wrench.

Fumoto dust doesn't require a wrench either.

10.) Spring loaded check ball that adjust for wear.

Never had a Fumoto wear out in over 20 years of using them.  And I'll take a ball valve over a check ball any day.  I had a check ball system before I discovered Fumoto and it got clogged up and had to be removed from service.   

11.) Stainless seat and bearing steel seal nearly impervious to wear to begin with.

Again, never had a Fumoto wear out in over 20 years.  

12.) But what I really bought it for was to redirect the stream away form the roll bar 

Attaching a hose to the nipple on the Fumoto accomplishes the exact same thing, at half the price.

 

This noise about oil filters and paper funnels is silly. Has ZERO to do with the assembly itself. 

You still have to deal with replacing the oil filter, the oil that drips down the filter during removal and adding fresh oil, which isn't silly.

 

Hope that's a long enough list for you Erik.

Remember.....you asked and you asked an engineer.

Now you have an accountant's perspective.

 

 

 

I can tell by your response your an accountant and never spent a second in the field. A ball valve is considered an open shut device. If you ever saw a flow map of one you would have known that even as a bean counter. AS and engineer I do know the difference between a guess an observation and measurement. You've never measured the difference in flow rate nor do you understand the implications drop speed has on oil cleanliness. I'll call Bull. On pretty much all of them. Saying a thing so isn't the same thing as awareness, knowledge or wisdom. 

 

The rest of your reply counter every point you made early on . Crawfishing. First you whine about loosing the tubing and fitting then promote it's use when it's value is seen. Only an accountant would not see the need to torque a fitting or fastener. Tells me you have no understanding of what prevents a threaded assembly from disassembly. This is why they don't let accountants design anything. BTW, you have to use something to wear it out. AS a bean counter I expect your OCI is a bit longer than average. You also seem a bit weak in chemistry to not understand the effect acids in the oil have on the brass on the valve nor the sensitivity of the gas chromatography used in UOA.  

 

And what does either valve have to do with the oil filter? 

Get a grip.

 

We're done here. I don't mind educating someone that wants to learn something but that isn't what this is becoming.

 

Look you're happy and I'm happy. We each cast an "economic vote". 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

This intrigues me enough I looked this up. From the Fumoto web site for my truck. 

 

CARS/PICKUPS CHEVROLET 2015 SILVERADO 1500 4.3L V6

 

You may need the adapter to avoid the valve pointing down to the ground.

 

F107SX: POSITION ADJUSTABLE OIL DRAIN VALVE WITH M12-1.75

The new Fumoto Fumoto® SX-series can be rotated 360° when it is installed, allowing you to choose the position and the oil flow direction for a smaller profile and easier access for maximum protection and further convenience oil drainage.

$32.95

 

ADD TO CART

ADP-137: 1/2" ADAPTER FOR M12-1.75 VALVES (COMPATIBLE WITH F107SX)

$7.00

 

Total $39.95

 

They admit their original design is flawed enough to justify a new design to get around SOME OF the very things I mentioned in the laundry list. And guess what? It cost MORE than the Valvomax AND that comes with the hose. 

 

From the Valvomax site for my truck: 

 

M12-1.75 Quick Twist Valve with Plastic Drain Tube Knob

 

 

 Total $34.99

 

Yea, yea the Stainless drain model cost 4 cents more than the  Fumoto. But ya get 304 stainless AND  a hose + hose clamp. 

 

Never EVER let an accountant design the parachute you will have to wear. 

He wouldn't!

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

[AlaskaErik]

22 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

This intrigues me enough I looked this up. From the Fumoto web site for my truck. 

 

CARS/PICKUPS CHEVROLET 2015 SILVERADO 1500 4.3L V6

 

You may need the adapter to avoid the valve pointing down to the ground.

 

F107SX: POSITION ADJUSTABLE OIL DRAIN VALVE WITH M12-1.75

The new Fumoto Fumoto® SX-series can be rotated 360° when it is installed, allowing you to choose the position and the oil flow direction for a smaller profile and easier access for maximum protection and further convenience oil drainage.

$32.95

 

ADD TO CART

ADP-137: 1/2" ADAPTER FOR M12-1.75 VALVES (COMPATIBLE WITH F107SX)

$7.00

 

Total $39.95

 

They admit their original design is flawed enough to justify a new design to get around SOME OF the very things I mentioned in the laundry list. And guess what? It cost MORE than the Valvomax AND that comes with the hose. 

 

From the Valvomax site for my truck: 

 

M12-1.75 Quick Twist Valve with Plastic Drain Tube Knob

 

 

 Total $34.99

 

Yea, yea the Stainless drain model cost 4 cents more than the  Fumoto. But ya get 304 stainless AND  a hose + hose clamp. 

 

Never EVER let an accountant design the parachute you will have to wear. 

He wouldn't!

 

 

No adaptor needed for my 5.3 or my 6.2.  Fumoto still the better deal.

[Gangly]

My Fumotos didn't need an adapter either, but it doesnt really matter to me one way or the other. 

 

However, I don't mind competition amongst products, the engineers work harder to create a better product and the consumer is usually the beneficiary.

 

Fumoto, Valvomax, whatever, good quality is wherever you find it and I'm sure both do the job admirably.

[98whitelightnin]

On 6/10/2021 at 3:42 PM, SporkLover said:

 Which model did you end up purchasing?  https://www.fumotousa.com/cars-pickups-chevrolet-2021-silverado-1500-6-2l-v8

F-107 fits the 3.0