Tranny’s blown

[meirikm]

Hey all. So my Tranny had gone on my 2017 5.3 wt (6 speed). Dealer says it was the internal pump that failed. I’m 4500 Kms passed my warranty. 
 

is this typical? Any advice? And alternative trannys that would cost about the same or less that would give me better acceleration?

Edited May 13, 2021 by meirikm
Typo

[CamGTP]

It happens, not much else anyone can say. The pump failed, no real way you could have stopped that.

 

You need to replace it with another 6L80e transmission. A new or reman unit is the best option because it has a warranty and will be programmed straight into the truck. A used transmission would require that you flash the TCM with a GM tool so the PCM and TCM are both running the same matching operating systems. And you take the chance because it's a used transmission.

[rav3]

48 minutes ago, meirikm said:

Hey all. So my Tranny had gone on my 2017 5.3 wt (6 speed). Dealer says it was the internal pump that failed. I’m 4500 Kms passed my warranty. 
 

is this typical? Any advice? And alternative trannys that would cost about the same or less that would give me better acceleration?

Help me on this, since I'm in USA & not familiar with Kms....you're past the 5 year/60,000 miles drive train warranty? Am I calculating it correctly that you're 2800 miles past the miles warranty but still inside the time? Total of 62,795 miles? Have you tried talking to a higher up guy to see if they could help you out? Have you ever had any transmission work done by GM in the past with this truck & ae you the original owner?

[newdude]

1 hour ago, meirikm said:

Hey all. So my Tranny had gone on my 2017 5.3 wt (6 speed). Dealer says it was the internal pump that failed. I’m 4500 Kms passed my warranty. 
 

is this typical? Any advice? And alternative trannys that would cost about the same or less that would give me better acceleration?

 

 

Typically what happens is the converter starts failing and then debris from the converter takes the pump out.  We do a good amount of them at work (Chevy dealer).  Even if you are out by time, GM sometimes will provide "assistance" and you might pay a lesser amount.  Start by asking the dealer if there is any opportunity of customer assistance from GM.  If they don't run it through the assistance calculator, call customer service and start a case for assistance.  Explain your situation as calmly and as nice as possible.  

 

No transmission would give you "better acceleration".  That's all power and gearing.  A trans can be tuned to handle "some" added power (change line pressure, shift timing, torque management), and then its all drivability tuning after that.  

Edited May 13, 2021 by newdude

[rav3]

28 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

Typically what happens is the converter starts failing and then debris from the converter takes the pump out.  We do a good amount of them at work (Chevy dealer).  Even if you are out by time, GM sometimes will provide "assistance" and you might pay a lesser amount.  Start by asking the dealer if there is any opportunity of customer assistance from GM.  If they don't run it through the assistance calculator, call customer service and start a case for assistance.  Explain your situation as calmly and as nice as possible.  

 

No transmission would give you "better acceleration".  That's all power and gearing.  A trans can be tuned to handle "some" added power (change line pressure, shift timing, torque management), and then its all drivability tuning after that.  

Good information here for others! Thanks for this input as I follow this thread.  Since your work on them or at least your dealership, what are the signs of a torque converter that's going bad?

 

[meirikm]

Ugh. Thank you. I’ve already started a case 

[newdude]

15 hours ago, rav3 said:

Good information here for others! Thanks for this input as I follow this thread.  Since your work on them or at least your dealership, what are the signs of a torque converter that's going bad?

 

 

 

Could be a few things.  You may start to notice a shudder kind of like in the 8 speeds.  If you drop the pan and the magnet is quite full, its very likely converter debris. 

 

The most verifiable way to check converter health however is to monitor its slip speed.  A healthy converter should slip from 0-20rpm.  If the fluid has degraded, you will see a repeating slip at 60rpm repeating.  If you see erratic slip from 0-100rpm, converter is going or gone.  

 

It all seems to boil down to the converter design GM chose, and then fluid additive pack degradation.  Shorter drain intervals would help the additive situation. 

 

6L80, 6L90 Transmissions: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild | Sonnax

Edited May 14, 2021 by newdude

[rav3]

24 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

Could be a few things.  You may start to notice a shudder kind of like in the 8 speeds.  If you drop the pan and the magnet is quite full, its very likely converter debris. 

 

The most verifiable way to check converter health however is to monitor its slip speed.  A healthy converter should slip from 0-20rpm.  If the fluid has degraded, you will see a repeating slip at 60rpm repeating.  If you see erratic slip from 0-100rpm, converter is going or gone.  

 

It all seems to boil down to the converter design GM chose, and then fluid additive pack degradation.  Shorter drain intervals would help the additive situation. 

 

6L80, 6L90 Transmissions: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild | Sonnax

Thanks for this info....I'm just a shade tree mechanic & retired mechanical engineer. Seems to me, from what I've read & what I understand about transmissions, which is very little, besides the mechanical aspect, high temperatures appear to degrade the transmission fluids, which in turn affect clutches, seals & plastics. More clutch particles in the fluid would result in higher wear internally & with the degradation of the fluid from heat, would work on both the converter & transmission parts. The filters in transmissions are not made to catch small particles but larger stuff, so the filters, for the most part are useless. I don't know what micron size they filter out but must not be very low, with some filter just being screens. I've seen aftermarket hydraulic fluid filters being added to the transmission line externally, which may go down to 5 microns or less, which would remove the  fine stuff. Without doing that, the next best option is to remove/bypass the "thermostat" on the newer transmission to reduce the temperature issue (to run cooler) & doing a "drain & fill" about every 2nd or 3rd oil change interval. (10k to 15k). Do you see any advantage in adding any transmission additives to the OEM DEXRON VI fluid?

 

[newdude]

18 minutes ago, rav3 said:

Thanks for this info....I'm just a shade tree mechanic & retired mechanical engineer. Seems to me, from what I've read & what I understand about transmissions, which is very little, besides the mechanical aspect, high temperatures appear to degrade the transmission fluids, which in turn affect clutches, seals & plastics. More clutch particles in the fluid would result in higher wear internally & with the degradation of the fluid from heat, would work on both the converter & transmission parts. The filters in transmissions are not made to catch small particles but larger stuff, so the filters, for the most part are useless. I don't know what micron size they filter out but must not be very low, with some filter just being screens. I've seen aftermarket hydraulic fluid filters being added to the transmission line externally, which may go down to 5 microns or less, which would remove the  fine stuff. Without doing that, the next best option is to remove/bypass the "thermostat" on the newer transmission to reduce the temperature issue (to run cooler) & doing a "drain & fill" about every 2nd or 3rd oil change interval. (10k to 15k). Do you see any advantage in adding any transmission additives to the OEM DEXRON VI fluid?

 

 

 

10-15K might be a touch excessive.  I would say every 30,000 for a full exchange, no more than 45,000.  I don't think there's a need for any additives, but that's just my opinion.  

[Grumpy Bear]

I find I do things that I remember. 

 

 

I remember that 50K is too long.

I remember that I remember even and whole easier than odd or fractional.

 

I change mine every 25 K. A simple drop and fill. With my PML 8 quart pan that is better than half. Bypassed the thermostat long ago. Run PAO/POE fluid. Drive like an old man....(cause I am  ) Changed the factory filter at 50K with first change and as easy as I drive the fluid should not have looked as dark as it did. I have no trouble imagining why they fail if the way I treat it was killing the fluid. Yuck!! Which is the reason for everything else.

 

I have not yet added ancillary filtration although it is a good idea and I don't run additives. If I towed OR did allot of city driving I run more cooler. I target a maximum spike temperature 180 F (82C) but I like to see 160 F (71C) or less for sustained highway driving. I'm good taking reliability over fuel economy. 

 

A few months ago I learned that the converter behind the V6 is different than the troublesome JMBX coupling the V8's.  But it wouldn't change a thing about my services and schedules. 

 

https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/254-a-slippery-slope-the-what-and-why-of-woven-carbon-friction-material

 

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/torque-converter-tech-with-insights-from-bob-warnke/

[Black02Silverado]

All good info on transmission care.  I change mine out early from factory fill to AMSOIL like around 10k miles from new.  Then I do a pan drop and top off at 50k.  From there I got 50k and have a UOA done.  This tells me the health of the transmission and fluid.  I was able to take my 2002 out to 100k with no issues by keeping an eye on things and running a quality synthetic like Grumpy stated PAO/POE fluid.  This helps with keeping things clean and running cooler than standard fluid. 

[KARNUT]

I did the same with all my rides for years. Pull the factory fill change the transmission fluid with Amsoil. Never touch it again before 100K miles. My last truck had factory fill in it when I bought it. 02 Avalanche at 168K. Put Amsoil in it going good a year later. Seems these newer vehicles need changes more often. So that’s better? Glad I don’t have to deal with that anymore. I’ll just drive older trucks. Now our CRV is extended from factory. The Toyota the same. Once again GM is lagging behind. To complex for its own good.  

[meirikm]

Just in limbo like a chump waiting to hear back from gm. Supposed to be $5k installed for a rebuilt tranny. Does that seem expensive? 

[rav3]

Just my input here, as I'm not an installer. Rebuilt 6L80e transmission sell for between $2500 & $3500 & usually come with a 2 or 3 yr warranty. I will assume it wouldn't take a shop more than 8 hrs to install. Depending on their shop rate ($100 to $150/hr) that's $800 to $1200 for labor plus they will charge you for 2.5 gal's of fluid ($100 to $120) guess that would be $3400 to $4820. And don't forget the Torque converter! Personally, I'd look for someone that would buy/source a heavier duty rebuilt transmission & Converter. Just my opinion.

[meirikm]

So the dealer came back saying they’d do 50/50 for the new tranny. I told them to go ahead. Total for me is $2509.00 plus taxes. They did give a vehicle to use though while it’s getting repaired. I just want my baby back