2020 3.0 Duramax 1st Blackstone Report

customboss · November 20, 2021

15 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Kirkland is a Warren Oil product.

It's been less than a year since I quite using QSUD. This stuff is like my yearly prostate PSA test. When the test was done, the Doc says, you were fine but what happened five minutes after that Ditto RLHP. Dave tells me the formula has not changed in 20 years as of our last conference say six months ago. I'm not testing every day to keep everyone honest.

The issue with the 2.4 is low oil ring oil transport. Not enough return area. Oil sits in the land an cooks like a turkey until the ring sticks. GM knows. Lied about fixing it then dumped the motor. Can't give you a UAO as my guy retired and who's left isn't doing the test I would like to see or you need.

I started using the TRIAX booster in the Kirkland oil to free the stuck oil rings. Which it did. I could not find a reasonable supply of Valvoline Blue and the GM cleaner only works for an oil change or two.

Kirkland was chosen on price and VOA as an oil I could "pour through the motor" as if it was being tossed on the ground. At it's worst point it was at a quart in 600 miles. This witches brew took it back over 10,000 miles per quart. Each time I got to a softer 'maintenance ratio' (10:1) and a few changes latter gulp gulp gulp. I have it cleaned up once more and she's doing well and after consult with TRIAX I'll stay at 5:1. It's primarily a detergent package. The total unit pricing allows me to cut my OCI in half and still be cheaper than a high detergent RLHP for example on double the OCI.

Best option is to rebuild with pistons from Seal Power to Jaspers 3rd land spec and be done with it. But at 150K miles not likely to happen. I'll run it till the cats die and push it off a cliff. This will never be a long haul motor in GM tune and build. Pitiful design of both piston/ring and PCV system.

I'm fairly certain the QSUD would have worked well enough on shorter OCI's from the get. 80K is about what the limit on these motors with most oils at 5K OCI's before the rings stick. To that point they are oil tight. We have a second 2.4 in the wife's 2014 Buick that has but 14K on the clock. That one is a Red Line HP motor from the day I brought her home. 5K OCIs. It will work or it won't. Either way, tis my last Ecotec 2.4.

When the lock down began lot shopping was an activity we could do safely. The number of 2.4's on lots with blown rings and plugged PCV system is unreal. They got away with it.

Better give the OP's thread back to him

Based on everything above, I feel your pain! Yep if it was me, I would try the RLI then.

customboss · November 20, 2021

49 minutes ago, Time2gofishing1980 said:

Hi! This post really took off . Lots of words and ****** it don’t understand…

I haven’t changed the oem air filter yet. I certainly can do so if you believe it can help.

I run oem dexosD bought from local dealerships along with the oem filter. I change Oil when the oil life monitor his sub 15%. I run Amsoil in my Indian motorcycle and can make the switch to Amsoil if you believe it beneficial.

I almost always fill up at a local Shell truck stop. This is a high volume diesel station. When I say almost always, I mean 90% of the time I hit this diesel station. I do not add anything to the fuel during the summer or winter.

The truck has a light duty plow in the winter. The plow and mount weighs about 500lbs and I load about 800lbs of ballast in the bed. During the summer it pulls a boat frequently weighing about 2600lbs.

I just did another oil change at 34k but didn’t capture oil for analysis. I’ll grab some from my next change.

Change that air filter ASAP.

The Amsoil DP 0w20 has the potential to clean up what you can't filter out.

WHAT PREMIUM DIESEL IS AVAILABLE NORTH OF B TOWN? Any CO-OP, CountryMark, or CENEX diesel fuels?

Worst case switch from Shell diesel to EXXON MOBIL DIESEL EFFICIENT.

Sorry to hijack your thread but I was answering a lot of disparate but cogent questions. He he!

Edited November 20, 2021 by customboss
apologies for hijacking your thread

Time2gofishing1980 · November 20, 2021

Just now, customboss said:

Change that air filter ASAP.

The Amsoil DP 0w20 has the potential to clean up what you can't filter out.

WHAT PREMIUM DIESEL IS AVAILABLE NORTH OF B TOWN? Any CO-OP, CountryMark, or CENEX diesel fuels?

Worst case switch from Shell diesel to EXXON MOBIL DIESEL EFFICIENT.

Sorry to hijack your thread but I was answering a lot of disparate questions.

No apology necessary! Knowledgeable people like you are what make these forums valuable.

None of those diesel brands are familiar to this way. Standards up here are Shell, Sunoco, Mobile and Irving. Goes to “off brand” real quick after that.

I’ll put an order in for Amsoil and will get their filter if available also.

Regarding air filter, do you recommend an OEM replacement or K&N drop in? There also are a few “cold air intake” options now to the tune of $350-400.

customboss · November 20, 2021

Joe,

OEM air filter. Stay away from oiled air filters. Anything you have to oil or clean opens a way to allow trash to flow in in micro tears or improper servicing. A clean OEM will flow more than enough CFM for this application. However not changing it more often slows needed air flow.

Does the Mobil near you have a diesel fuel called "Efficient"? Exxon owns Mobil so it should be the same I am pretty sure.

Time2gofishing1980 · November 20, 2021

Looks like the Mobil stations have efficient. I can start hitting them. It’s on my commute to work.

customboss · November 20, 2021

13 hours ago, Time2gofishing1980 said:

Looks like the Mobil stations have efficient. I can start hitting them. It’s on my commute to work.

Let us know how the change of air filter, cleaning capable fuels, and amsoil work. I get my Amsoil from Black02Silverado who supports this venue and we have known each other a long time from oil analysis work, both veterans, highly recommend using him for your order for best price and fast shipping.

rbdjr · November 24, 2021

2021 Chevy silverado RST 4x4 3.0L crew cab, 3rd oil change UPF66 Delco oil filter for 2 of the changes and the first oem filter, 9,000 miles, no issues. But a bit concerened with the high iron as have read some of these engine delvope engine burning oil. not mine yet but only 9000 miles. Is higher iron content reflection of oil burning coming down the road?

See attached

Engine oil test 1.pdf

Grumpy Bear · November 24, 2021

1 hour ago, rbdjr said:

2021 Chevy silverado RST 4x4 3.0L crew cab, 3rd oil change UPF66 Delco oil filter for 2 of the changes and the first oem filter, 9,000 miles, no issues. But a bit concerened with the high iron as have read some of these engine delvope engine burning oil. not mine yet but only 9000 miles. Is higher iron content reflection of oil burning coming down the road?

See attached

Engine oil test 1.pdf 427.91 kB · 1 download

Hope @customboss is still following this tread.

customboss · November 24, 2021

1 hour ago, rbdjr said:

2021 Chevy silverado RST 4x4 3.0L crew cab, 3rd oil change UPF66 Delco oil filter for 2 of the changes and the first oem filter, 9,000 miles, no issues. But a bit concerened with the high iron as have read some of these engine delvope engine burning oil. not mine yet but only 9000 miles. Is higher iron content reflection of oil burning coming down the road?

See attached

Engine oil test 1.pdf 427.91 kB · 2 downloads

Oh my, your fuels dilution is terrible ( normal is less than 0.5% via GC ) and consistent with restricted air filter, marginally appropriate diesel fuel formulations and making that wonderfully fine soot we discussed above. There may be an issue with injection timing via your belt.

This is Amsoil/ Polaris labs format to get your GC fuels so folks a normal after-treated diesel maxing out injection timing but dropping NOx emissions by EGR and SCR is not supposed to allow this much wear and this much fuels dilute.

Your iron wear is actually more normal than our friend with Bklabs as his first test.

The silver is most likely soot/fuel generated turbo bearing wear if unlucky and or EGR cooler heat exchanger braze/solder if you are lucky. This is NOT Amsoil DP 0w20 in use. Are you running any aftermarket fuel additives. You have the Mn trace too I suspect is fuel related.

What fuels do you usually use? When did you last change out the air filter?

Note Soot reading scale might as well say we don't really know.....LOL

No modern after-treated EGR/SCR diesel should show ANY detectable FTIR soot. Call oil analyzers and get a deeper dive on the soot reading from them. Absorbance preferably.

The engine oil looks ok most likely Mobil made AcDelco looking chemistry except the Ca is awful high for the ACEA based additive package. Let us know exactly the oil and API/ILSAC spec

I really need more data to pin down what oil is in use because the diesel fuels/ maybe additional fuel additives is impacting the readings. You are getting some biodiesel for sure.

For both you 3.0L TD oil analysis posters we may have a timing belt stretch issue where injection timing is being messed up ever so slightly and making too much soot and fuels dilution.

rbdjr · November 24, 2021

I use GM Dexos D 0w-20, UPF66 gold delco filter, changed 3 times in 9000 miles, sample taken at 9000 miles.

My air filter is still like brand new.

I do not think injection timing off or a code would set. no codes set current or history

Fuel used Exxon/Mobil diesel, only no other brands used . There is no top tier in my area. no additives to fuel yet, as I was thinking to add some before cold weather sets in?

Miles when sample take 9000miles. I got truck first week in July, approx 5 months ago.

the iron is my concern as I thought after 3 oil changes any break in material wear would have already been flushed out?

customboss · November 25, 2021

Raymond, if it was my 3.0L Turbo diesel I would act to make changes. I am retired from a 40+ year career of interpreting, testing, formulating lubricants, and fuels so I am sharing informed opinions here.

Your analysis is the second in the last 2 weeks of this engine design ( which is a good one) we have seen here that shows elevated levels of soot and fuels dilution, although the other fellas data had poor fuel reading because of that labs technology limitations. Your soot is in question based on their reporting method.

Recently I was shocked that Injection timing on GM diesels that incorporate timing belts can be off with no MIL code set and that evidence came from another customers diesel engine that for the life of us we could not figure out the fuels dilute and soot issues that made higher wear readings. Change your injection timing and nothing else will come into control. I am not saying thats the issue but if your air filter is not restricted at all then you have another cause. Belts can stretch and not show any other issues.

ExxonMobil Diesel Efficient what you are using? If so continue it has some great additives for cleaning etc. Its not high cetane but its adequate for your needs.

For now I DO NOT recommend adding any fuel additives and being in NJ the fuel should be winterized at least with flow improver from rack and may even have a cut of #1 diesel in it.

Your iron is not the problem, it's a symptom , the soot and fuels dilute is increasing normal wear rates.

Are you regenerating the DPF often? Another option is using the Amsoil DP 0w20 and see if that lowers wear by solving out the soot and protecting against the high fuels dilute.

You have the right idea but the frequent changes aren't mitigating the issue but maybe masking it. I am just looking at your data to say that.

Cheers

rbdjr · December 1, 2021

Thank You Sir- customboss

Would like to say Thanks for all your insight from your experience, So I wont add any fuel additives as I have heard that NJ does doctor there winter treatments diesel fuel. That oil sample posted was GM Dexos D 0w-20, the 3rd change with it, I did switch to Amsoil and a wix filter as I read it had a 5micron better filtration rating? Just dont want to resrict flow, we will see as I will wait 4,000 miles and send another sample out, and see what changes, I will post it and hope you have time to review that one down the road also.

Question on sample method, I took the sample bottle from when I first opened the oil drain valve (Fumoto) on a hot engine after about 15 mile run, The Fumoto drain made it fairly easy to get the sample in the bottle.

Is the proper method to get a sample?

I cant find close to home?

Fuel top tier Diesel, 1 place in NJ thats listed, not sure if its updated? gasoline the exxon/mobil has gas covered but not the diesel, here is what I found for the top Tier Diesel

Licensed Retail Brands	Countries
Co-op	Canada - select locations only
Costco Wholesale	Canada - select locations only
Costco Wholesale	USA - select locations only
Fast Stop	USA - select locations only
Fast Stop Express	USA - select locations only
Kirkland Signature	Canada - select locations only
Kirkland Signature	USA - select locations only

Thanks Again for your advise and help

rbdjr

Edited December 1, 2021 by rbdjr

customboss · December 1, 2021

Raymond, did you ask Amsoil/Polaris/OA what your actual soot reading was?

Sampling, think if it as a urine test, you want to look at urine/oil not the deposits at the end of your fumoto valve! LOL

So allow 10-20 seconds of flow to clear and get a better cleaner sample of engine condition.

Interesting they don't sell XOM diesel efficient in NJ! Top Tier in diesel means little but which one is that you can access?

WIX oil filter will be fine, trust me its not efficient. PF66 isn't either and common with my 2.7 Turbo 4. Either is OK to use. Remember from discussions above we want to stop soot production at combustion event not filter it out, cause you can't really.

CO-OP,CENEX, CountryMark, AgriMark have the best diesel fuels in US. Get the highest cetane and best additive you can garner in your area/NJ market. Kum and Go turns out has a pretty good diesel here in CO and midwest. If you can't get a decent diesel fuel then use the one that has the most traffic so its at least being refreshed/flushed at station.

Cheers

customboss · December 1, 2021

https://www.exxon.com/en/find-station/?longitude1=-81.491901175&longitude2=-67.956744925&latitude1=37.95149753899491&latitude2=42.153977675771664&zoom=7&searchText=NJ and NY&filters={"channels":{"Synergy Diesel Efficient %2F Diesel":true}}

Grumpy Bear · December 1, 2021

39 minutes ago, customboss said:

WIX oil filter will be fine, trust me its not efficient. PF66 isn't either and common with my 2.7 Turbo 4. Either is OK to use. Remember from discussions above we want to stop soot production at combustion event not filter it out, cause you can't really.

Something I've been meaning to ask you about is bypass filtration. AMSOIL bypass filters are quoted as having a efficiency of 98.7 'down to' 2 micron. A Beta ratio of 75. (question at the end)

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/288/diesel-engine-oil-particle

This same article (above) shows in studies that 88-89% of soot is >5 micro

But this has always intrigued me. Film thickness in a running ring set runs a quart micron to 2-3 micron viscosity/rpm/load dependent. Now there's some boundary layer lubrication

I know not even a centrifuge removes it all but a filter as fine as 2 micron at 98.7% will still be removing sum micron sizes with over 50% efficiency.

Doesn't this help in the same way that and oil change helps reduce saturation levels? OR is there something other in play that renders this type of fine filtration ineffective? :dunno:

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BTW those in the bleachers note the laboratory support of customboss's ACURATE statement about incomplete combustion being the cause of high soot levels and a sharp tune being the fist line of defense.