Which oil filter?

[Grumpy Bear]

15 minutes ago, RWTJR said:

If the point you're attempting to make is that the engine in this video is in such poor shape because it was maintained per OEM guidelines and fluids, I have questions.

 

 

What's my point. Hum 

A motor that runs that well doesn't mean it is in good shape.

Fact is this example was totally shot.

This one was quite and passed the normal test such as compression and balance.

That results such as these form opinions about the effectiveness of maintenance programs. 

The point being made is that those opinions are in error.

 

Go back and review the one million mile video and tell me you believe there is 1 million miles on that Jeep. USPS keeps a vehicle 25 years and they average 134,700 miles over that span of time. https://www.greatbusinessschools.org/usps-long-life-vehicle/ Their life time leader has 402,000 on the clock. https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2007/html/pb22207/news.2.4.html I know these trucks get the worst treatment possible between services. 

 

Are you saying you believe USPS fleet services does LESS than the OEM requirement? 

Do you believe the second owner put more than 865,300 miles on that Jeep? Did less than OEM? 

The comparison is to the million mile motor now. 

 

Hey, I don't know the maintenance nor use of that prison truck either other than it used Schaefers oil. I expect under close supervision from Schaefer...just like Mobil controlled the Million Mile BMW on a roof top. Think that was to OEM schedules with OEM fluids and filters? 

 

The prison truck interest me because it was used under real world conditions but drivers with no vested interest in the result. 

 

Even if I can't pick the fly crap out of the pepper shaker I know BETTER begets BETTER and WORSE begets WORSE. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RWTJR]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

What's my point. Hum 

A motor that runs that well doesn't mean it is in good shape.

Fact is this example was totally shot.

This one was quite and passed the normal test such as compression and balance.

That results such as these form opinions about the effectiveness of maintenance programs. 

The point being made is that those opinions are in error.

 

I get it now, your saying that somehow people are forming erroneous opinions on the effectiveness of maintenance programs based on engines with a completely unknown maintenance history, such as this Jeep.

 

I agree. It's impossible to form an objective opinion, good or bad, about the effectiveness of the maintenance without at least knowing the maintenance history.

 

At first I thought you meant because you assumed this USPS Jeep engine had OEM filters, oil and maintenance schedule, that caused the engine issues. To form an opinion based on such an assumption, good or bad, without any actual facts about the maintenance history would be in error. I guess that's where I was confused.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

JMHO

No expertise implied or expressed

[Transient]

Getting back on topic: I prefer Wix filters, but not the one listed for our trucks. Why? It was eluded to by another member with their 2012 truck.

Many years ago I worked in an auto parts store. This was a dinosaur setup. Just like Autozone, NAPA, et al, we had computers to look things up. Problem is, info in computers is only a good as the info put into them. We often ran into problems, and even had situations where the computer didn't have the part listed. At the chain auto part stores today that's it for you. If it's not in their computer they can't help you. Not the store I was at. We cracked open books we got from our suppliers. If there was confusion or questions, we called the supplier. We did what we had to do to get the correct info.

What does this have to do with oil filters? One day I had a customer walk in that wanted an oil filter for his Chevy truck. I helped him, looked it up, and got him everything he requested. According to the info I had I was correct. However, I still managed to fail. Apparently my boss, who'd been in the business for 50 years, had rapport with this customer and knew exactly what this customer wanted, but stood back and watched to give me a learning moment. This customer then asked if the filter I gave him was "the deep filter". I explained is the only filter listed for his truck. I was stumped. This is where my boss stepped in and I learned something new that day.

There is a 2nd filter for GM V8s that is the exact same dimensions, except length. Same diameter, same threads, same number, location, and size of holes in the lid of the filter. The difference in length is allegedly to aid in handling surges, which I think was discussed in post #34. A large filter media surface decreased the surge energy to the filter media, this allowing it to maintain integrity and effectiveness.

At the time I learned this I was driving a compact couple with a paper filter that clipped into a plastic lid at the top of the engine. However, a little bit later my first child was born and I needed "room to grow into". I ended up buying a 2007 Tahoe (first year of NNBS). When I went to perform the first oil change I found the filter was a PITA to remove because it is recessed into a small crevasse. There wasn't enough room to get it off, so I did what any high school lube jockey would do in that scenario -- I stabbed through the filter with a screwdriver at an angle and used it as leverage, then did my best to put the new filter into my truck. The following week at work I found some free time to go through the Wix catalog and look up the data on the oil filter listed for my truck. I then compared that info to other filters and found a matching filter in diameter and features that was about an inch longer. I bought a case of them. This one inch made a difference. The bottom of the OE filter sat flush with a pan that it was next to. The new filter was an inch lower. Furthermore, there was no danger of damaging the longer filter because it was next to a cross member that sat even lower. The filter was protected.

With regards to my new T1 truck, GM provided the first oil change at no cost to me. All oil changes after that are on my dime. Therefore, I'm going to do the same research and get the deeper oil filter for my truck. If I remember to, I'll share the Wix filter number here and you'll be able to cross reference it with NAPA or whatever other brand you guys prefer.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[diyer2]

I posted the longer Wix oil filter for my 2012. Still using up my stock of them. I think I will switch to Purolator One after they are gone. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by diyer2

[Grumpy Bear]

27 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

I posted the longer Wix oil filter for my 2012. Still using up my stock of them. I think I will switch to Purolator One after they are gone. 

I'm still working off some Purolator Boss on some vehicles. It was a supply issue for me. Found a new local source of Pure One. 

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, RWTJR said:

I get it now, your saying that somehow people are forming erroneous opinions on the effectiveness of maintenance programs based on engines with a completely unknown maintenance history, such as this Jeep.

Even IF they know the history and it runs like a top they don't know. Why? Because they never tear them down and end of life and investigate that programs 'end result'. 

 

This USPS delivery truck wasn't a wheezing junk pile as far as anyone could tell from how it ran and how it tested. It was quite. Used little oil. Passed compression test with near new numbers. Variance between cylinders was good. Wasn't leaking.

 

ONLY upon tear down and inspection was it found to be totally wasted on the inside while singing like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on the outside. 

 

Joe Blow puts 150K on his motor changing oil once every 25K using recycled oil and cheap paper filters and it runs just like this USPS truck did so he claims no need for a shorter OCI, better fluids or filters. Inside it's burnt toast and this guy has no idea the timing chain is about to jump, that cam has lost half it's lift...yada yada yada. If it has only a idiot light for oil pressure he doesn't even know the cam bearings are wasted. Yet he is convinced that program is a winner. Sells it to some dealer and it's rinse and repeat. 

 

Knew a guy once who put over 100K on an early 70's Monte Carlo 350 without ever changing the factory fill or filter. Used a bit of oil but no smoker. Sounded fine. Leaked a little. He swore up and down there wasn't a need to ever change your oil. Now I never pulled that motor down but...... We did pull a valve cover to replace a gasket and brother it was totally solid up top in sludge. Rockers cutting a path in the muck. Still don't understand why it leaked.  

 

Prison system has a first class program, goes a million miles and checks out like new inside and everyone says the can do the same thing based on their 250K never took a look examples. 

[Abominator]

Hey guys got a couple of questions. I currently have a PFL 47060/57060xp on my 6.0 gasser. I chose this filter for the build quality and also the bypass was very close to the AC Delco's the manual calls for. I just bought 3.5 gal of Amsoil ATF (after Grumpy Bear knowledge bombed me) and I have decided I will use Amsoil on my next oil change. So questions being, the Amsoil EA15K50-EA filter has a bypass of nearly double (18-24lbs) that of the NAPA/WIX/OEM (12lbs) filter. Less time in bypass means more filtration.......is there a negative to running that higher pressure bypass valve setting in the filter? I have always changed my own oil when I owned my F150's but always used oem everything. I never though about all the aftermarket products being so varied. Apologies if this is a dumb question.

[Black02Silverado]

1 hour ago, Abominator said:

Hey guys got a couple of questions. I currently have a PFL 47060/57060xp on my 6.0 gasser. I chose this filter for the build quality and also the bypass was very close to the AC Delco's the manual calls for. I just bought 3.5 gal of Amsoil ATF (after Grumpy Bear knowledge bombed me) and I have decided I will use Amsoil on my next oil change. So questions being, the Amsoil EA15K50-EA filter has a bypass of nearly double (18-24lbs) that of the NAPA/WIX/OEM (12lbs) filter. Less time in bypass means more filtration.......is there a negative to running that higher pressure bypass valve setting in the filter? I have always changed my own oil when I owned my F150's but always used oem everything. I never though about all the aftermarket products being so varied. Apologies if this is a dumb question.

No issues at all running the AMSOIL filter.  It is what AMSOIL recommends for your application so it meets the specifications  per GM.

[shanemoon]

This is a case of just common sense. This same principal applies to any type of filter...but can be best illustrated in air handling filters.

Typical, common household air filters go anywhere from MERV 1-8. The MERV scale goes all the way up to 20 for instances where ultra-filtration is needed..(clean rooms, surgery rooms, nuclear rooms, etc.) Residential HVAC systems are not designed to utilize filters above 8...in some newer systems up to 12. A MERV 1 system will have the best efficiency in terms of cooling and heating, but will have the least efficiency in terms of filtration.

 

As you get higher in the MERV scale, the filters obviously become more restrictive. If you don't have an air handler that can push enough low speed airflow and large enough ducts to support that mass of airflow at low velocities, you will have a deficient air system. This could cause damage to your air handler or VAV's and will cause the spaces to have deficient cooling/heating. At the same time, the higher level of particulate filtration leads to the increased need for filter replacement. If you do not replace the filters as necessary, they no longer filter and the value of using a higher MERV filter is irrelevant at that point.

 

It's also a matter of how the filters are designed. Higher MERV or HEPA filters are not designed to take high air velocities...they become less effective. The air handling systems that require and utilize 18-20 MERV or HEPA filtration are designed very specifically to ensure that the air velocities are within the range of effectiveness for the filter, then the ducts are sized properly to ensure that at the proper velocity, there is sufficient air volume to heat/cool the space.

 

 

 

So basically....if you get a higher quality, finer oil filter than what is designed for your engine, you may be restricting oil flow. Additionally, the finer filter will likely capture more particulates (agglomerates) thus requiring more frequent oil changes (or at least filter changes). If you fail to do this, you are essentially creating a worse situation for your engine. There is no right answer...these engines aren't F1 V12's that need to be rebuilt every 500 miles. They can tolerate a good amount of variation.....but you have to be careful about going too far in any one direction.

 

GM and other vehicle/engine manufacturers have teams of engineers that spend 1000's of hours and millions of dollars in R&D. I would trust them. Sure they are in the business of making money, so they may not design things to be their 100% optimum. So I'm sure that there is a better filter option for these engines....but if you don't know what you're doing....chances are that you'll be doing more harm to your engine than good.

Edited January 29, 2021 by shanemoon

[Grumpy Bear]

40 minutes ago, shanemoon said:

So basically....if you get a higher quality, finer oil filter than what is designed for your engine, you may be restricting oil flow.

The relief valve in the filter lifts on the medias pressure 'differential'. The Vortec pump here under discussion GM sets the pumps internal relief to between 70 to 80 psi. The filter pressure differential would have to exceed 70-80 psi to 'restrict flow' to the motor. Increasing the filters relief setting just delays the point where it goes into bypass. Not a bad thing at all. But...you can check this easy enough. Does your DIC gauge still show normal oil pressure? That sending unit is downstream of the filter. 

 

1 hour ago, shanemoon said:

GM and other vehicle/engine manufacturers have teams of engineers that spend 1000's of hours and millions of dollars in R&D. I would trust them

And they are sill human making mistakes. I offer this. The first Ecotec3 motors that replaced the Vortec LS motors also specified the same 8-12 psi relief valve settings. A few failed VLOM units and a year later GM upped the specification to 22 psi. Recalls and TSB's???

 

1 hour ago, shanemoon said:

So I'm sure that there is a better filter option for these engines....but if you don't know what you're doing....chances are that you'll be doing more harm to your engine than good.

Here's a thought for those whose need to know is endless. Install a remote filter system and add a DP gauge. 

 

 

 

 

[EricTheRed]

What’s the part number for the longer/higher capacity oil filter for these T1s?

[Grumpy Bear]

27 minutes ago, EricTheRed said:

What’s the part number for the longer/higher capacity oil filter for these T1s?

12707246

 

Genuine GM Parts 12707246 is the PF63E Oil Filter.

 

That what your after? 

[EricTheRed]

On 1/29/2021 at 12:28 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

12707246

 

Genuine GM Parts 12707246 is the PF63E Oil Filter.

 

That what your after? 

Ya I guess that one IS the bigger one after all. 

[EricTheRed]

Who’s using the Fram XG10575 Ultra Synthetic oil filter? And what do you think of it? 

Edited February 6, 2021 by EricTheRed

[redwngr]

Oil Filter
2.7L L4     55495105    PF66
4.3L V6      12690385   PF63E
5.3L V8       12690385   PF63E
6.2L V8       12690385   PF63E

 

3.0L I6      55495105     PF66

 

https://gm-techlink.com/?p=7627

 

Spin-On Oil Filter Replacement

April 5, 2017

The correct match of oil filter to engine application is more important now than ever with the tight tolerances, two stage oil pumps and high flow lubrication requirements of today’s modern engines.

 

Beginning in 2012, oil pumps began to regulate main gallery feedback instead of pump output pressure, which means that the oil pump does not begin to regulate until pressure is built up to the main gallery. This change reduces the amount of time it takes to provide oil to the engine bearing and lifters during extreme cold start conditions.

 

To meet these new engine operating requirements, the oil filter specifications of production oil filters and service oil filters have been improved. If a replacement oil filter with an internal bypass valve opening pressure specification of 15 PSI (100 kPa) or less is used, debris could circulate in the engine and cause damage to bearings and other tight tolerances areas, and eventually lead to premature engine failure.

 

PF64 and PF63 Filters

 

The PF64 and PF63 (Fig. 20) filters are commonly confused as an ACDelco PF48 and/or PF48E filter because both oil filters have the same appearance and oil can size. However, these oil filters are not the same and have different internal bypass valve opening pressure specifications. The PF48/PF48E has a pressure specification of 15 PSI (100 kPa) while the PF64/PF63E has a pressure specification of 22 PSI (150 kPa).

 

Fig. 20

 

Refer to the Electronic Parts Catalog (EPC) to determine the proper part numbers for a replacement oil filter.  If an aftermarket filter is used, it must have an internal bypass valve opening pressure specification, element integrity, filtration performance, media particle trap specification and burst strength that is equivalent to the original production oil filter.