Which oil filter?

Grumpy Bear · December 12, 2020

6 hours ago, UGADawgs said:

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what you use. Engines last 200-300k miles and failures/rebuilds/etc are never due to what type of filters are used in most of vehicles on the road. On top of that, most people on this forum won't even keep their new T1 past 100k miles. So again, it really doesn't matter. Use what you want. Internet search all you want. Watch all the youtube videos. Go down that hole. I've been there too. End the end, it really doesn't matter. I'm sure there will be one person who claims an oil filter blew up or their engine or their cousin's engine blew up and they blamed the filter, etc. I'm more worried about hose crimps failing and dumping oil all over the road or failed valve springs or the window leaking or some other more likely failure on these vehicles. Pick a filter, be happy. Pick a different one, still be happy. ymmv.

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/881825/

You don't even have to buy it. Read the abstract.

Let's weight this:

SAE published and peer reviewed STUDY or a forum opinion?

Minnvmax · December 12, 2020

Wix. Always and forever.

Colossus · December 13, 2020

Well I like Wix, but only for as long as they continue to build quality parts.

Vicarod · December 13, 2020

Kept thinking about this thread last nite. I feel that my comment was a bit cavalier and didn’t provide enough information into my thoughts on the matter of oil filtration.

First, it makes sense that not all filters are the same and that a filter that is capable of filtering smaller particles will reduce the size of those particles in suspension and reduce engine wear.

Then I remembered that since the company I work for builds the most beautiful aircraft in the world…I have access to SAE articles. So, I read it this morning.

It’s an interesting article, from 1988, but the premise remains the same.

The abstract is descriptive, but doesn’t tell the whole story.

First off, wear is reduced by reducing size of particles. But is too much of a good thing bad? Possibly in the case of oil filtration. The filter may plug sooner with a finer media, thereby causing more damage. There are other considerations in the paper to be reasoned with.

Also note that “Fine Test Dust” was added to the crankcases of the engines to accelerate the engine wear.

More importantly, just because this article reduced engine wear by 70% (in some cases) in a test environment results in real world applications will vary from engine to engine.

This test was done to correlate oil filtration with engine wear. It was not designed to predict how much longer your engine will last. It can be inferred that your engine will last longer with better filtration.

I still agree with UGADawgs. Like I said yesterday. With this one caveat:

Pick a quality filter. Do research (if you want to).

I have way too many other priorities in my life to get down in the details on engine oil filters.

OP, if you are concerned about aftermarket filters, roll with the OEM filter. You can’t go wrong.

You can go better (possibly)…but OEM will serve you well.

Keep your oil clean, use a quality oil and filter. Enjoy your truck.

If anyone is interested in the SAE paper, send me your email. I’ll fwd it to you.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Vicarod

flyingfool · December 13, 2020

15 hours ago, Colossus said:

Well I like Wix, but only for as long as they continue to build quality parts.

i know what you mean, dont order wix off amazon, i have a feeling those are coming from China, besides amazon stuff has prooven to sell counterfit products.

Edited December 13, 2020 by flyingfool

flyingfool · December 13, 2020

1 hour ago, Vicarod said:

Kept thinking about this thread last nite. I feel that my comment was a bit cavalier and didn’t provide enough information into my thoughts on the matter of oil filtration.

First, it makes sense that not all filters are the same and that a filter that is capable of filtering smaller particles will reduce the size of those particles in suspension and reduce engine wear.

Then I remembered that since the company I work for builds the most beautiful aircraft in the world…I have access to SAE articles. So, I read it this morning.

It’s an interesting article, from 1988, but the premise remains the same.

The abstract is descriptive, but doesn’t tell the whole story.

First off, wear is reduced by reducing size of particles. But is too much of a good thing bad? Possibly in the case of oil filtration. The filter may plug sooner with a finer media, thereby causing more damage. There are other considerations in the paper to be reasoned with.

Also note that “Fine Test Dust” was added to the crankcases of the engines to accelerate the engine wear.

More importantly, just because this article reduced engine wear by 70% (in some cases) in a test environment results in real world applications will vary from engine to engine.

This test was done to correlate oil filtration with engine wear. It was not designed to predict how much longer your engine will last. It can be inferred that your engine will last longer with better filtration.

I still agree with UGADawgs. Like I said yesterday. With this one caveat:

Pick a quality filter. Do research (if you want to).

I have way too many other priorities in my life to get down in the details on engine oil filters.

OP, if you are concerned about aftermarket filters, roll with the OEM filter. You can’t go wrong.

You can go better (possibly)…but OEM will serve you well.

Keep your oil clean, use a quality oil and filter. Enjoy your truck.

If anyone is interested in the SAE paper, send me your email. I’ll fwd it to you.

hence you should be running a by-pass filter for higher filtration of 1/10 or 2 micron i just use oem ACdelco. The bi-pass cleans up the stuff that gets past the ACdelco part. i would focus more on the quality of the by pass filter and using full synth oil.

i've cut open a few spin-ons and found the issue with the cheapo autozone units, was the ability to handle heat and support for pressure surges. Cheapo filters are made of paper, and after 3-7000 miles the heat damages the cellulous by making it brittle. then the pressure flucuations cause the filter madia to flex and crack, then you have holes in the filter media. not filtering at all.

the good ACdelco Gold filters are synthetic for heat resistance. and have a special core support internally, and then some are wrapped with string to resist blow outs due to high rpm operation

Edited December 13, 2020 by flyingfool

Grumpy Bear · December 13, 2020

2 hours ago, Vicarod said:

The abstract is descriptive, but doesn’t tell the whole story.

First off, wear is reduced by reducing size of particles. But is too much of a good thing bad? Possibly in the case of oil filtration. The filter may plug sooner with a finer media, thereby causing more damage. There are other considerations in the paper to be reasoned with.

If anyone is interested in the SAE paper, send me your email. I’ll fwd it to you.

No story tells the whole story.

Like the use of your personal doubts to lead others to believe it is correct to draw an incorrect but concrete conclusion. You've fundamentally lead your readers to conclude that a fine filter will lead to MORE DAMAGE. :bs:

Why is that so important to you to discredit this work based on your fear, uncertainty and doubts which are YOURS to deal with.

That study is as accurate and relevant today as the day it was published. You even cast a shadow on that in your opening remarks.

28 minutes ago, flyingfool said:

hence you should be running a by-pass filter for higher filtration.........

In such a case any dog and cat catcher of a filter would do.....right? Seriously, I have never had a filter mechanically fail. Perhaps because early on I never looked for more than leakage; but then again even then I've never asked a filter to go beyond it's mechanical limits. Such limits include 'time and temperature'.

I remember some of the first AC-Delco filters I ever used were a course straw like material like what one would see used as a sofa stuffing of the early 20th century. Coconut fiber or wood wools perhaps? Changed those every 500 miles.

Vicarod · December 13, 2020

No BS.

The considerations I gave were given in the paper itself.

Like I said, I'll fwd the paper to anyone else to formulate their own opinion.

Too bad you didn't highlight that.

PPK · December 13, 2020

i think the place to look first is a good air filter so dirt partlcles are kept out of the engine... and include a drain plug magnet. attached is a magnet with the captured iron from 3000 miles with the 63E.

Fine iron... but IMO that is what you do not want in the oil... .probably micron sizes... little grinders floating in the oil... just a liitle dab of iron/chrome slurry on this oil change... but still not picked up by the filter...

Edited December 13, 2020 by PPK

flyingfool · December 13, 2020

49 minutes ago, PPK said:

i think the place to look first is a good air filter so dirt partlcles are kept out of the engine... and include a drain plug magnet. attached is a magnet with the captured iron from 3000 miles with the 63E.

Fine iron... but IMO that is what you do not want in the oil... .probably micron sizes... little grinders floating in the oil... just a liitle dab of iron/chrome slurry on this oil change... but still not picked up by the filter...

try one of these

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GM1JKA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edited December 13, 2020 by flyingfool

Grumpy Bear · December 14, 2020

On 12/13/2020 at 12:25 PM, Vicarod said:

No BS.

The considerations I gave were given in the paper itself.

Like I said, I'll fwd the paper to anyone else to formulate their own opinion.

Too bad you didn't highlight that.

Nor in my edited quote of your post did I delete it?

Your comments remain the same.

Intent to discredit the truth.

Judge says, "The jury will disregard that last comment". The attorney says under his breath, "No they won't".

:crackup:

Considerations OR Conditions?

Not the same thig are thy?

Word games.

They were not the considerations of the test, they are the test conditions.

Look sport, I worked in the oil/gas/chemical field for decades.

I have drawers full of these papers.

This one near memorized.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · December 14, 2020

19 hours ago, PPK said:

i think the place to look first is a good air filter so dirt partlcles are kept out of the engine... and include a drain plug magnet. attached is a magnet with the captured iron from 3000 miles with the 63E.

Fine iron... but IMO that is what you do not want in the oil... .probably micron sizes... little grinders floating in the oil... just a liitle dab of iron/chrome slurry on this oil change... but still not picked up by the filter...

Try this. When you pull that magnet from the pan, instead of wiping it off with a rag, hit it with a stream of canned brake or carburetor cleaner. Most of it will come off meaning most of that gunk isn't magnetic.

For the particles to be removed from the oil, by any method, they first have to get in the oil meaning they have access to the magnet or the simple velocity separation of heavier particles settling out of slower moving streams. Point being? Wear particles are 'washed' from motor internals into the pan THEN to the pump to be filtered or into the pan near the magnet to be removed that way.

Most solid particulates that are filtered from oil are not ingested nor wear but byproducts of oil degradation. Amalgamations.

Gray Fox · January 14, 2021

Not to tell anyone what oil or oil filter to use, and since the OP asked which filter, let me throw one out that I don’t see listed in this post. I use a K&N filter. I am not going to throw out specs or say it is the best, but here is why I use them.

I have continuously owned at least one GM product since 1976. I was always an AC-Delco man. As the commercials said, “keep your GM car all GM”. I figured if the people that designed the car/truck specified the filter, it was good enough for me. I kept that opinion until I got my 2012 Silverado. After several times changing oil and getting mad at the engineers that placed that big filter in that tiny cavity that no wrench would easily remove, I went to K&N with the 1” nut so I could remove it with a socket and extension. So it is 3 times the cost of the AC, but the hassle cost more than that. Easy on, easy off and no issues with Mobile 1.

Grumpy Bear · January 14, 2021

17 hours ago, Gray Fox said:

Not to tell anyone what oil or oil filter to use, and since the OP asked which filter, let me throw one out that I don’t see listed in this post. I use a K&N filter. I am not going to throw out specs or say it is the best, but here is why I use them.

I have continuously owned at least one GM product since 1976. I was always an AC-Delco man. As the commercials said, “keep your GM car all GM”. I figured if the people that designed the car/truck specified the filter, it was good enough for me. I kept that opinion until I got my 2012 Silverado. After several times changing oil and getting mad at the engineers that placed that big filter in that tiny cavity that no wrench would easily remove, I went to K&N with the 1” nut so I could remove it with a socket and extension. So it is 3 times the cost of the AC, but the hassle cost more than that. Easy on, easy off and no issues with Mobile 1.

25 micron @ 50% efficiency Beta Ratio of 2

The KN-171 filter has a nominal micron rating of 25, meaning it will capture 25 micron particles with at least 50% efficiency. The filtration efficiency of the KN-171 at 5 microns is 3%.Dec 6, 2010 (Source HD Forums)

The following is from K7N website:

They are popular amongst high-performance vehicle owners and racers. K&N Wrench-Off Oil Filters' specially designed filter media helps maintain excellent filtration even with heavier grade oils and higher GPM flow rates experienced in racing conditions.

Fortunately an oil filter does a pretty good job of removing many of the particles and sludge.

Simply because oil filters are all designed to do the same job, doesn't mean that they get the job done equally well. Additionally, an oil filter that claims to have a high efficiency rating doesn't exactly correlate to a cleaner engine. Sometimes if the oil filter becomes clogged, or if oil pressures are too high due to a restrictive filter media, the oil will bypass the filter completely and dirty oil will recirculate through the engine. Recirculating this dirty oil can be far more damaging than using an oil filter with an average filtration.

Filtering efficiency is NOT a major concern to them. They are nice of high rpm, heavy vis, high volume oil pump racing where keeping shrapnel from 'recirculating' is about the greatest worry. Red highlights are mine. Conditions that happen perhaps on a -25F day with a total tart behind the wheel or same tart trying to get 50K out of a filter. It's a dog and cat catcher.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

Gray Fox · January 15, 2021

So I guess you are doing what I wasn’t going to do. So I guess you were telling me that I shouldn’t use a K&N filter. Maybe Delco will put a nut on their’s so they will come off.