Is AMSOIL ATF preferred for the 6L80E?

[Grumpy Bear]

WIKI resource: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEXRON

 

Read the entire page. Especially definitions of "Life Time Fluids". When they say NEVER needs to be changed it means by their definition of what constitutes a lifetime. It's a pretty small number...look for it as you read. 

 

GM ATF Change Interval under "Severe Driving" Conditions*
Fluid Specification				Miles
1940 Hydra-Matic			2,500
1949 Type "A"			5,000
1957 Type "A" Suffix "A"			7,500
1967 Dexron (B)			12,000
1973 Dexron-II(C)			25,000
1975 Dexron-II(D)			25,000
1990 Dexron-II(E)			50,000
1993 Dexron-III(F)			50,000
1998 Dexron-III(G)			50,000
2003 Dexron-III(H)			50,000
2006 Dexron-VI(J)			50,000
2013 Dexron-HP			45,000
2014 Dexron-ULV			45,000
*See your vehicle maintenance guide for definition of "Severe Driving" conditions and recommended service interval   Compare these two charts. There is no such thing as a fluid that will not degrade. Degradation has several forms.   Contamination Shear stability Thermal  Oxidation.    GM ATF Change Interval under "Normal Driving" Conditions* Fluid Specification     Miles 1940 Hydra-Matic   5,000 1949 Type "A"   10,000 1957 Type "A" Suffix "A"   15,000 1967 Dexron (B)   24,000 1973 Dexron-II(C)   50,000 1975 Dexron-II(D)   50,000 1990 Dexron-II(E)   100,000 1993 Dexron-III(F)   100,000 1998 Dexron-III(G)   100,000 2003 Dexron-III(H)   100,000 2006 Dexron-VI(J)   100,000 2013 Dexron-HP   150,000 2014 Dexron-ULV   150,000 *See your vehicle maintenance guide for definition of "Normal Driving" conditions and recommended service interval     1. Normal Driving[edit] Carry passengers and cargo within recommended limits on the Tire and Loading Information label Driven on reasonable road surfaces within legal driving limits. Under "Normal" driving conditions, the automatic transmission fluid and filter never needs to be changed. 2. Severe Driving[edit] Mainly driven in heavy city traffic in hot weather Mainly driven in hilly or mountainous terrain Frequently towing a trailer Used for high speed or competitive driving Used for taxi, police, or delivery service. Under "Severe" driving conditions, replace automatic transmission fluid and filter every 45,000 mi (72,420 km)

[Z45]

The trans shop guy doesn't want you to use AMSOIL because AMSOIL saves transmissions and he is in the repair business. The use of AMSOIL ATF will not void any factory warranties. Anyone who says that is trying to use scare tactics to advance their agenda.  An oil analysis cannot determine what brand of ATF it is, especially when its a used fluid. Talk to the lube analysis experts, I have, they can't tell what brand of fluid/oil is used. All the can tell you is the present condition and weather its suitable for continued use. 

Anyone who thinks GMC Dexron branded fluid is superior, just look at the fiasco with the 2014-2016 8-sp transmissions shudder problems and low-bidder GM Branded Dexron HP.  No good, they had to go to Mobil 1 to save their butts. 

 

[CKNSLS]

2nd post down

https://www.silveradosierra.com/transmission/transmission-temp-to-hot-t12797.html

 

 

The facts being is that this isn't like the old transmission fluid chart floating around the internet-that says at 175 degrees your transmission is toast.  Crankcase oil, transmission fluid and like has come along way in the last 35 years.

[dvzzz]

Is it correct that oil analysis shops cannot determine if fluid is Dexron VI or not based on specific additive presence? If this is true than this is
game-changing for entire aftermarket fluids. My dealer said they can easily determine Dexron VI vs III and Dexos or not.

The trans shop guy doesn't want you to use AMSOIL because AMSOIL saves transmissions and he is in the repair business. The use of AMSOIL ATF will not void any factory warranties. Anyone who says that is trying to use scare tactics to advance their agenda.  An oil analysis cannot determine what brand of ATF it is, especially when its a used fluid. Talk to the lube analysis experts, I have, they can't tell what brand of fluid/oil is used. All the can tell you is the present condition and weather its suitable for continued use. 
Anyone who thinks GMC Dexron branded fluid is superior, just look at the fiasco with the 2014-2016 8-sp transmissions shudder problems and low-bidder GM Branded Dexron HP.  No good, they had to go to Mobil 1 to save their butts. 
 

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[Bob2C]

The key to a healthy transmission IMO is clean fluid. If towing a lot, more frequent changes would need to occur. The vast majority of drivers are not severe and mostly highway. I changed mine out at 24k to Amsoil and would not hesitate to do it again.

Gm programs these transmissions to shift smooth not firm. In talking with people they say smooth or slow shifting transmissions have lots of slip. I tuned mine to firm shifts and like it. Is there any truth to the non firm shifting from factory creating slip and more wear??


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[Black02Silverado]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:46 PM, Bob2C said:

The key to a healthy transmission IMO is clean fluid. If towing a lot, more frequent changes would need to occur. The vast majority of drivers are not severe and mostly highway. I changed mine out at 24k to Amsoil and would not hesitate to do it again.

Gm programs these transmissions to shift smooth not firm. In talking with people they say smooth or slow shifting transmissions have lots of slip. I tuned mine to firm shifts and like it. Is there any truth to the non firm shifting from factory creating slip and more wear??


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From talking to several transmission shops and a personal friend that used to own a shop but got out of it due to the area he lived in and customers didn't pay their bills.  Super small town.  A smooth shifting transmission does just that, slips and that is why it is smooth.  Slippage creates heat.  One way to warm up a transmission fast is to put your foot on the brake and hold down the gas.  That will get it up to temp fast as well as over heat if you let it. 

 

Firm up the shifts and the slippage is reduced and so the wear is lowered as well as the heat.  I had Black Bear Performance tune my 2002 and had them firm up the shifts. It was to the point that it would hit going into gear and my wife was like what the heck is going on?  I will admit it was a little to hard so I had them back it off but it still shifted firm.  This was done early on with bout 30k on the truck.  When I sold it at 200k all was well and my UOA of the transmission fluid that had 100k on it was just fine.  This is even with towing a 4k trailer.  We all know that the 4L60 wasn't the best transmission.  I just was lucky I guess.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

On 11/25/2020 at 5:38 PM, CKNSLS said:

2nd post down

https://www.silveradosierra.com/transmission/transmission-temp-to-hot-t12797.html

 

 

The facts being is that this isn't like the old transmission fluid chart floating around the internet-that says at 175 degrees your transmission is toast.  Crankcase oil, transmission fluid and like has come along way in the last 35 years.

 

I haven't been out of the game that long. This chart is as solid today as it was when printed. 

 

 

Now that out of the way as far as the fluid is concerned take careful note that the damage IS NOT TO THE FLUID in every case. Nothing in the advancement of fluids has done anything to help seals, clutches or bonding materials to survive one degree further that this chart people are trying to shove dirt on. 

 

 

Hot tip. Believe, don't believe, I don't really care past the point that this sort of thing hurts innocent people who don't deserve the trash the uninformed bring to the table. It will not have any effect on my maintenance procedures. 

 

Does anyone beside me find it interesting that GM targets the 195 - 220 F range for their version of a 'forever' fluid and in the same breath consider 45 K as severe service and 100 K as a definition of a 'lifetime'.  (except in Europe where 120K is the law for such terms. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

I'm going to make a hard right turn here and concede that there IS such a thing as a universal fluid WITHIN context. What is that context? When manufactures like GM and FORD collaborate in development such is the case with the six speed transmissions. This is a narrow context that does not apply in every case. That is Dexron VI and Mercon LV ATF are the same fluid and share the same friction modifiers as well as low VI. 

 

From AMSOIL literature regarding this product:  Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

 

 

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic ATF is recommended for transmissions and other applications that require any of the following specifications:

 

Aisin-Warner AW-1; BMW 83 22 0 142 516, 83 22 2 152 426; Chrysler MOPAR* 68157995AA, SP-IV, 68218925AB; DSIH 6p805; Ford MERCON* LV, SP, ULV; GM DEXRON* HP, DEXRON* VI, ULV; Honda/Acura DW-1*, Type 3.0; Hyundai/Kia SP-IV, SPH-IV, SP-IVRR, NWS-9638, SP4-M; JASO 1A-LV; JWS 3324; Mercedes Benz 236.12, 236.14, 236.15, 236.41; Mitsubishi SP-IV, ATF J3, ATF-PA, ATF-MA1; Nissan Matic-S, Matic-W; Saab 93 165 147; Shell M-1375.4, M-1375.5, M-1375.6, M-L 12108; Toyota WS; Volvo 31256774; VW/Audi G 055 005, G 055 162, G 060 162; ZF S671 090 255.

 

AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic ATF is backward compatible and replaces DEXRON III fluids in older GM automatic transmissions. (DEXRON VI specification supersedes the obsolete DEXRON III in GM vehicles.)

 

 

[flyingfool]

37 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I'm going to make a hard right turn here and concede that there IS such a thing as a universal fluid WITHIN context. What is that context? When manufactures like GM and FORD collaborate in development such is the case with the six speed transmissions. This is a narrow context that does not apply in every case. That is Dexron VI and Mercon LV ATF are the same fluid and share the same friction modifiers as well as low VI.

 

i'm not an oil man like you grumpy, but what is a friction modifier, and what do they do in the case of a transmission vs and engine?

[dvzzz]

I am with @Grumpy Bear and @Bob2C - ATF change is a good way to keep the transmission running cooler. Since even labs cannot tell Amsoil from GM-approved Dexron VI fluids then Amsoil is a good fluid to flush with and then do partial changes every 30K miles. I did change ATF in my 2018 Yukon with AC Delco Full Synthetic at 12K miles and it did not seem to help with somewhat roughER downshifts. I am sure that AC Delco fluid is perfectly useable but as @Bob2C mentioned with Amsoil his transmission shifts noticeably smoother. 

 

[diyer2]

On 11/23/2020 at 12:08 PM, Marztian said:

I’m an AMSOIL guy,

Simple answer.

Why second guess this? Ever had an issue with Amsoil?

[Grumpy Bear]

9 hours ago, flyingfool said:

 

i'm not an oil man like you grumpy, but what is a friction modifier, and what do they do in the case of a transmission vs and engine?

Think of it as modifying the 'slipperiness' or 'slickness' of the fluid. This will help me thinks....

 

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30336/friction-modifiers-use#:~:text=The purpose of a lubricant,of friction between two surfaces.&text=In this situation%2C friction modifiers,transfer and many other functions.

 

This should also explain why GM's fix for converter shudder is a fluid change and why additives like LUBEGARD can be effective.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Grumpy Bear
Additional content

[CKNSLS]

14 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I haven't been out of the game that long. This chart is as solid today as it was when printed. 

 

 

Now that out of the way as far as the fluid is concerned take careful note that the damage IS NOT TO THE FLUID in every case. Nothing in the advancement of fluids has done anything to help seals, clutches or bonding materials to survive one degree further that this chart people are trying to shove dirt on. 

 

 

Hot tip. Believe, don't believe, I don't really care past the point that this sort of thing hurts innocent people who don't deserve the trash the uninformed bring to the table. It will not have any effect on my maintenance procedures. 

 

Does anyone beside me find it interesting that GM targets the 195 - 220 F range for their version of a 'forever' fluid and in the same breath consider 45 K as severe service and 100 K as a definition of a 'lifetime'.  (except in Europe where 120K is the law for such terms. 

Yes-Here is what I believe -per GM's own statement that I linked you to the second chart is misinformation.  And my own personal experience of changing out the Dex6 at 50,000 miles(25,000miles of that towing a 30 foot 5,500 pound travel trailer) and the fluid that came out looked as good as the day it went in. Granted-I didn't perform a UOA-but it looked real good.  Not sure what these transmission temperature charts are selling-either new fluid or maintenance that is not needed.

Edited November 30, 2020 by CKNSLS
spelling

[diyer2]

I'm a big advocate of fluid changes as some of you know. Changing fluids more frequently is maintenece that I never think of as not needed. Has served me well for many years. 

And anybody worth his salt would know a 100% synthetic oil, fluid or gear lube would be the best to use. 

[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

Yes-Here is what I believe -per GM's own statement that I linked you to the second chart is misinformation.  And my own personal experience of changing out the Dex6 at 50,000 miles(25,000miles of that towing a 30 foot 5,500 pound travel trailer) and the fluid that came out looked as good as the day it went in. Granted-I didn't perform a UOA-but it looked real good.  Not sure what these transmission temperature charts are selling-either new fluid or maintenance that is not needed.

You are entitled to your opinions. 

Chemistry however does not deal in opinion

I see to totally missed the point on seals and friction materials temperature limitations

Have a nice day

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Grumpy Bear