Is AMSOIL ATF preferred for the 6L80E?

[Marztian]

I had purchased AMSOIL Signature Series ATF for my 18 Silverado - 6 speed. After having it sit for a while and never getting to a transmission flush on my own time, I called a local, honest, reputable transmission shop near me that has always treated my dad very well. They’re a no-bull, honest shop, and the owner is down to earth and knowledgeable regarding transmissions, as he should be. I informed him I had AMSOIL and wanted it switched with that, and he advised that for the 6L80E, it wasn’t a great idea. He has nothing against a better fluid, but he advised that AMSOIL doesn’t treat the electronics nicely, and it’s a common issue. I’m an AMSOIL guy, and do want him to use the AMSOIL fluid, but has anyone else heard of this or advise to simply use DEXRON VI and NOT AMSOIL?

[Black02Silverado]

23 minutes ago, Marztian said:

I had purchased AMSOIL Signature Series ATF for my 18 Silverado - 6 speed. After having it sit for a while and never getting to a transmission flush on my own time, I called a local, honest, reputable transmission shop near me that has always treated my dad very well. They’re a no-bull, honest shop, and the owner is down to earth and knowledgeable regarding transmissions, as he should be. I informed him I had AMSOIL and wanted it switched with that, and he advised that for the 6L80E, it wasn’t a great idea. He has nothing against a better fluid, but he advised that AMSOIL doesn’t treat the electronics nicely, and it’s a common issue. I’m an AMSOIL guy, and do want him to use the AMSOIL fluid, but has anyone else heard of this or advise to simply use DEXRON VI and NOT AMSOIL?

No problems with using the AMSOIL fluid.  I have used it from 10k miles to 200,000 miles in my 2002's transmission with no issues and I have used fluid analysis to back it up.  It is in every vehicle's transmission we own, which is a 2016 suburban with 60k miles on it, 2012 Cruze with 75k on it and my 2014 Cruze diesel, which is a totally different transmission from the 2012 Cruze with 92k on it.  All running fine. It is my understanding that most that do not fully understand lubricants tend to stay with what they know and has worked for them.  I have seen this time and time again.  It would be interesting to see what he meant by "not treating the electronics nicely"?

 

I have no first hand knowledge but from what other AMSOIL dealers that I have talked to said they have customers running it in their GM 8 sp transmission with no issues at all. 

 

As soon as things get settled down here, I'm going to have my 2019 Silverado with the 10sp transmission switched over 100% to AMSOIL's Signature Series ATL transmission fluid.

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, Marztian said:

He has nothing against a better fluid, but he advised that AMSOIL doesn’t treat the electronics nicely, and it’s a common issue.

I use Red Line D6 in my 6L80E. Have for about 75,000 miles now without issue one. Know what Red Line D6 and AMSOIL have in common? They share the same base oil chemistry. PAO/POE. 

 

It isn't the fluid that is hard on the electronics. It's the fluids HEAT. Since 2014 GM has used a thermostat to keep the oil hot. Very hot. Hot is thin and thin is fuel efficient. It's also an electronics killer. Why they though bathing the transmissions electrical "brain" in hot oil was a good idea goes on the "dumbest ideas ever" list.  

[Colossus]

I also have never heard of any issues using Amsoil as long as the viscosity is correct?  I don't know enough about it yet to know if I would want to use it in my Allison tranny for my duramax, but I am open to feedback on that from Nick and anyone else who has used it in diesel trucks and HD trannies.  I do think Amsoil has good stuff for the differentials and I'll be switching to that here in the next few thousand miles. 

[dvzzz]

Interesting topic. I would go back to that transmission shop and probe more about specific concerns. I know of 2 people that use Amsoil ATF in Dexron VI-specified transmission and no issue, but none of them are over 50K miles on it. Older transmissions are very forgiving, but 2016+ GM ones are quite prima donnas. I always felt generalized one-for-all approach to ATF is interesting but then again I do not know what makes Dexron VI specification. There could be special additives for electronics protection. Someone on BITOG made a point that Dexron VI is different from Mercon V and ATF+4 and they are not interchangeable. There is truth to the fact that they are marketing certs but I am sure they are not exactly the same additive packages. 

[It's Tim]

17 hours ago, Marztian said:

I’m an AMSOIL guy, and do want him to use the AMSOIL fluid, but has anyone else heard of this or advise to simply use DEXRON VI and NOT AMSOIL?

That's like taking a piece of meat to a resturant and asking them to cook it. Then if something goes wrong you'll expect them to warranty it. 

His shop, his rules, If you want to change fluids just DIY.

[Z45]

  

AMSOIL has been producing synthetic lubricants since 1972 and synthetic ATF since 1980.  Its well known/respected in the industry as the leader in synthetics. Heck, they buy their PAO base oil from Exxon-Mobil Chemical (different than Mobil 1) and their additives from Lubrizol as well as Infineum, Afton Chemical, Motiva etal, the best in the world. Does that mean it is somehow garbage in an AMSOIL bottle and perfectly fine in a Mobil 1 bottle?   The short of it, the trans guy is full of BS.

[Black02Silverado]

18 hours ago, Colossus said:

I also have never heard of any issues using Amsoil as long as the viscosity is correct?  I don't know enough about it yet to know if I would want to use it in my Allison tranny for my duramax, but I am open to feedback on that from Nick and anyone else who has used it in diesel trucks and HD trannies.  I do think Amsoil has good stuff for the differentials and I'll be switching to that here in the next few thousand miles. 

Switching over in your 2500 would be a major benefit.  Lower transmission temperatures and keeping it clean are the most important things. We all know how heat kills transmission.  Your Allison would love it. 

 

Don't forget AMSOIL warranties their fluids. 

 

Like I mentioned above.  Every vehicle I own gets switched over to AMSOIL products front to back as soon as I get it and new vehicles usually before 10k miles.  The only reason my 2019 hasn't been yet is that I'm not willing to tackle the 10sp myself just yet and I need to get the time to schedule it in to the dealer.  I'm lucky in that the dealer here works with me and even lets me in the service bay.

[dvzzz]

Yes, warranties - I would not bring it up, it is impossible to get warranty enacted by an average owner once Amsoil fluid is in the truck as it is prohibitively expensive (lawyers and tech experts on your dime) to argue with GM when transmission fails, GM will do oil sample, determine it is not Dexron VI, the warranty is void, and they can't care less about M-M law and Amsoil ATF is not actually under M-M law since it is not specified fluid, M-M law is long dead anyway, ask the Lemon Attorneys, they will confirm. I lived through that on 2018 Yukon and learned first-hand that M-M is dead and manufacturer's warranty is really there for catastrophic failure on a fully stock vehicle. 

Getting Amsoil warranty to pay for a new transmission - they will push the burden on you to prove that fluid caused the failure and the same cost challenge, you would need an attorney and tech expert to certify that fluid indeed caused the failure. 

Basically neither OEM warranty nor Amsoil warranty should be considered once you put Amsoil in. 

30 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

Switching over in your 2500 would be a major benefit.  Lower transmission temperatures and keeping it clean are the most important things. We all know how heat kills transmission.  Your Allison would love it. 

 

Don't forget AMSOIL warranties their fluids. 

 

Like I mentioned above.  Every vehicle I own gets switched over to AMSOIL products front to back as soon as I get it and new vehicles usually before 10k miles.  The only reason my 2019 hasn't been yet is that I'm not willing to tackle the 10sp myself just yet and I need to get the time to schedule it in to the dealer.  I'm lucky in that the dealer here works with me and even lets me in the service bay.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by dvzzz

[Marztian]

13 hours ago, dvzzz said:

Interesting topic. I would go back to that transmission shop and probe more about specific concerns.

So, went to drop off the truck this morning. Told the owner that although he mentioned using a Dex IV instead of AMSOIL, I didn’t have the time or motivation to go get any, so I have the AMSOIL. His face dropped and he said he would use it, but really doesn’t want me to be stuck with a transmission replacement bill, as he wouldn’t warranty the change himself if using AMSOIL. He said it seems like the finer compounds in AMSOIL’s ATF get into the electronics and cause failure/issues.

 

13 hours ago, dvzzz said:

I always felt generalized one-for-all approach to ATF is interesting but then again I do not know what makes Dexron VI specification. There could be special additives for electronics protection. Someone on BITOG made a point that Dexron VI is different from Mercon V and ATF+4 and they are not interchangeable. There is truth to the fact that they are marketing certs but I am sure they are not exactly the same additive packages. 

I’m thinking this is the approach of my transmission guy. He knew a hell of a lot about the 6L80, and knows this industry VERY well. I think his grievance with AMSOIL is that although it may be Dex VI compliant, it’s not nearly the same. Also, my father who works on multi-million dollar mining trucks control modules referenced the insane amount of R&D he does for coatings and fluids near their control mods. The slightest change can reduce longevity exponentially.
 

3 hours ago, It's Tim said:

That's like taking a piece of meat to a resturant and asking them to cook it. Then if something goes wrong you'll expect them to warranty it. 

His shop, his rules, If you want to change fluids just DIY.

So, he is the one that suggested getting my own fluids, because I could probably get them for cheaper at retail, with deals going on. He expected me to bring my steak... but when I thought I was bringing prime rib, he told me it was an awful grade cut. 

 

Essentially this guy said he has had to replace a lot of the 6 speeds potentially due to AMSOIL, a lot of the 8 speeds because..... I think we all know their issues. And in the end, I’m going to be selling this AMSOIL, and I went with his ACDelco for $6.98/qt and he’s giving me a good deal on the change. All in all, the guy is VERY honest and I believe he is acting in my best interest. He’s a transmission guy and knows the products and outcomes well, I’m inclined to believe him. It’s not to say that for a different transmission, it’s not a great option. I also don’t know better, which is why I reached out here. For all those interested, though, this is what I did and why. Thanks for all the input!

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, Marztian said:

I’m thinking this is the approach of my transmission guy. He knew a hell of a lot about the 6L80, and knows this industry VERY well. I think his grievance with AMSOIL is that although it may be Dex VI compliant, it’s not nearly the same. Also, my father who works on multi-million dollar mining trucks control modules referenced the insane amount of R&D he does for coatings and fluids near their control mods. The slightest change can reduce longevity exponentially.

Hey it's your truck and you that has to ultimately be at peace with the choices you make. 

 

Bold underline statement caught my eye. Turn it over in your noggin awhile and see how many different conclusions one can come to with that line. Yes it can be taken in the negative and yes it is the truth but the negative conclusion does not come from the truth. It comes from the experience of the one hearing it. And from the spin of the teller.

 

"....it's not nearly the same". 

 

Could also mean vastly superior and as a matter fact it means just that in this case. The fact I refer to is the base oils (PAO/POE) superior performance at every level to any Group III 'synthetic' mineral oil. People will pick the nits of that statement but those nits are never ever given in a meaningful context. 

 

Saying that doesn't help you unless you get the practical application as well.

 

Here it is:

Change your mineral synthetic more often and keep a VERY close eye on fluid temperature.

 

BTW that additive crap is just that...a statement he can not prove.

It's his belief.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Grumpy Bear

[Marztian]

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Hey it's your truck and you that has to ultimately be at peace with the choices you make. 

 

Bold underline statement caught my eye. Turn it over in your noggin awhile and see how many different conclusions one can come to with that line. Yes it can be taken in the negative and yes it is the truth but the negative conclusion does not come from the truth. It comes from the experience of the one hearing it. And from the spin of the teller.

 

"....it's not nearly the same". 

 

Could also mean vastly superior and as a matter fact it means just that in this case. The fact I refer to is the base oils (PAO/POE) superior performance at every level to any Group III 'synthetic' mineral oil. People will pick the nits of that statement but those nits are never ever given in a meaningful context. 

Grumpy, I’m an AMSOIL guy. I do believe that their products are awesome, I’ve used them in many applications and always been happy with the results. I advocate for their products to friends and coworkers. I do think they’re superior. In the present case, this point is the reason for not using AMSOIL:

 

AMSOIL doesn’t have DEX VI specific fluid - sure it may meet those reqs, but I agree with dvzzz and his statement regarding the one-for-all approach. The additives are really the differing factor. In an attempt to make the fluid better for most vehicles, I’d hope it doesn’t create a negative for the 6L80.

15 hours ago, dvzzz said:

I always felt generalized one-for-all approach to ATF is interesting but then again I do not know what makes Dexron VI specification. There could be special additives for electronics protection. Someone on BITOG made a point that Dexron VI is different from Mercon V and ATF+4 and they are not interchangeable. 

Transmission fluid differs, as it should, depending on the components/product it interacts with.

 

Truthfully, AMSOIL could be the BEST thing I could ever put in my transmission. But, I do want to be sure of it, I don’t want thousands lost to a transmission, and I don’t know how concrete AMSOIL’s warranty to that is. So for this time, I went with the Dex VI ACD. Next time, I may very well go AMSOIL. Given a longer timeframe, I may build confidence to the AMSOIL ATF.

 

Also grumpy, I agree to the bullshit high heat of these 6L80s. Would you suggest a thermostat delete? I have gotten up to 230°F or so on occasion towing 10k through mountains...

[Grumpy Bear]

21 minutes ago, Marztian said:

AMSOIL doesn’t have DEX VI specific fluid - sure it may meet those reqs, but I agree with dvzzz and his statement regarding the one-for-all approach. The additives are really the differing factor. In an attempt to make the fluid better for most vehicles, I’d hope it doesn’t create a negative for the 6L80.

On this we agree. They do not have a specific Dexron VI fluid. As noted previously I use Red Line D-6 for this reason. The advantage of a great base fluid and an application specific friction package. Like dvzzz I hold to the idea that the friction package has a purpose and that can't be met in a generic 'catch all' fluid. 

 

37 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

BTW that additive crap is just that...a statement he can not prove.

It's his belief.

This was to address the idea that the additive package was attacking electronics.

Not toward friction modifier additives.

I see I was unclear.....even to me

  

[CKNSLS]

6 hours ago, Marztian said:

Grumpy, I’m an AMSOIL guy. I do believe that their products are awesome, I’ve used them in many applications and always been happy with the results. I advocate for their products to friends and coworkers. I do think they’re superior. In the present case, this point is the reason for not using AMSOIL:

 

AMSOIL doesn’t have DEX VI specific fluid - sure it may meet those reqs, but I agree with dvzzz and his statement regarding the one-for-all approach. The additives are really the differing factor. In an attempt to make the fluid better for most vehicles, I’d hope it doesn’t create a negative for the 6L80.

Transmission fluid differs, as it should, depending on the components/product it interacts with.

 

Truthfully, AMSOIL could be the BEST thing I could ever put in my transmission. But, I do want to be sure of it, I don’t want thousands lost to a transmission, and I don’t know how concrete AMSOIL’s warranty to that is. So for this time, I went with the Dex VI ACD. Next time, I may very well go AMSOIL. Given a longer timeframe, I may build confidence to the AMSOIL ATF.

 

Also grumpy, I agree to the bullshit high heat of these 6L80s. Would you suggest a thermostat delete? I have gotten up to 230°F or so on occasion towing 10k through mountains...

 

The Dex 6 has been tested up to 275 degrees with no fluid degradation.

[Grumpy Bear]

15 hours ago, CKNSLS said:

 

The Dex 6 has been tested up to 275 degrees with no fluid degradation.

Point me to that study please. This is a must read.