MORE BRAKE STUFF! Police vs Performance

[Goinovr]

I'm starting to look into doing brakes and rotors and I am trying to decide between the police heavy duty stuff and the slotted/crossed drilled performance stuff. Anyone have any pros/cons between the two?

 

I have a crew cab with more power incoming and have a tendency to take corners and turns sometimes faster than recommended so braking power and fade can be an issue with the stock brakes. I'm not doing any serious track days but it is fun.

 

Potentially looking at the Raybestos Specialty Police or ACDelco Gold rotors with a carbon ceramic pad setup but of course I do like the looks of the slotted/drill stuff. Dynamic Friction or Powerstop. However I prefer function over form so if the performance isn't there then the slotted stuff can stay away. 

[Brian2015]

following.....

 

My question is, will the police rotors fit a factory 17" wheel?

[newdude]

2015-2020 Police Tahoe use 17" wheels.  Rotors are not any larger than regular Tahoe, and they use the same exact calipers as non PPV.  PPV pads are semi-metallic.  

 

OE front pads - 84218394

 

OE front rotor - 23144341

 

AC Delco front pads - 19365993

 

AC Delco front rotor - 19310735

 

OE rear pads - 84176465

 

OE rear rotor - 84223345

 

AC Delco rear pad - 19366010

 

AC Delco rear rotor - 19310739

 

[Mike GMC]

Semi metallic pads will dust like crazy, but they do work well.  I would recommend the power stop z36 setup with pads and rotors.  They are carbon ceramic so they are very low dust, but the carbon adds bite that plain ceramics lack.  If you are having fade issues, you may need to look at a full fluid flush with a higher temp fluid as well.  Stick with DOT 3 fluid only for street use.  Just flush it more often if fade returns.

[truckguy82]

Oem brakes are fantastic imo

 

Not sure how much extra power, but keep in mind the brakes are engineered to operate with considerably more weight than stock

 

if your going FI, big brake kit for sure. If your going bolt ons, and your driving mostly unloaded, I would probably try keeping the stockers

[flyingfool]

isn't the big upgrade installing T1 rotors and calipers ?

 

stock system would be better with more rear brake bias, but what do I know , just a dummy

Edited September 29, 2020 by flyingfool

[Grumpy Bear]

7 hours ago, truckguy82 said:

Oem brakes are fantastic imo

 

Not sure how much extra power, but keep in mind the brakes are engineered to operate with considerably more weight than stock

 

if your going FI, big brake kit for sure. If your going bolt ons, and your driving mostly unloaded, I would probably try keeping the stockers

X2

 

I've said this before when brake upgrades are being tossed about. Brakes do NOT stop trucks. Brakes stop wheels/tires. Tires stop trucks. If you hit the dead pedal hard enough to get the ABS twitching you have enough brake. You don't have enough tire grip. That is an other issue entirely. Adding more brake to a system that will already get the ABS active won't stop you an inch sooner. A better tire will.  

 

 

[acc412]

17 hours ago, newdude said:

2015-2020 Police Tahoe use 17" wheels.  Rotors are not any larger than regular Tahoe, and they use the same exact calipers as non PPV.  PPV pads are semi-metallic.  

 

OE front pads - 84218394

 

OE front rotor - 23144341

 

AC Delco front pads - 19365993

 

AC Delco front rotor - 19310735

 

OE rear pads - 84176465

 

OE rear rotor - 84223345

 

AC Delco rear pad - 19366010

  

AC Delco rear rotor - 19310739

 

AC Delco police brakes?

[truckguy82]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

X2

 

I've said this before when brake upgrades are being tossed about. Brakes do NOT stop trucks. Brakes stop wheels/tires. Tires stop trucks. If you hit the dead pedal hard enough to get the ABS twitching you have enough brake. You don't have enough tire grip. That is an other issue entirely. Adding more brake to a system that will already get the ABS active won't stop you an inch sooner. A better tire will.  

 

 

Yeah I’ve mentioned that before as well, but big brakes do have importance. I doubt the stockers could handle a panic stock from 140mph or even come close to multiple full brake applications, like say aggressive driving or a race track.

 

As unlikely as that stuff sounds, I personally think its wise to always have the brakes be able to handle the engine. After all, brakes simply convert kinetic energy into heat, and then dissipate that heat. The source of kinetic energy is the engine. More power should mean more brakes, in theory. Granted these are trucks and 99.9% of the time you’ll be fine with the stockers regardless of how your driving and how much power you have since you better have a lot more mods if your way past 100mph or on a circuit track.

Edited September 30, 2020 by truckguy82

[newdude]

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

X2

 

I've said this before when brake upgrades are being tossed about. Brakes do NOT stop trucks. Brakes stop wheels/tires. Tires stop trucks. If you hit the dead pedal hard enough to get the ABS twitching you have enough brake. You don't have enough tire grip. That is an other issue entirely. Adding more brake to a system that will already get the ABS active won't stop you an inch sooner. A better tire will.  

 

 

 

Yep.  A performance truck tire will stop faster than a highway truck tire, which stops faster than an all terrain truck tire, which stops faster than a mud terrain, etc.  There are also some variables that can make them closer to each other like what size tire is being tested, tread compound, width, etc.  

 

An HT vs an AT tire can be a good 5-15 feet further stopping distance from 50-0mph.  Tread pattern has a lot of play in the AT field as the less aggressive ones like the Hankook Dynapro AT2 will stop faster than say a BFG AT KO2.  

 

HT tires https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=256

 

AT tires - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=240

               - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=249  BFG AT KO2 was 100ft, the Hankook AT2 was 87ft.  

 

General AT2 vs HTS60 - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=210

Edited September 30, 2020 by newdude

[Grumpy Bear]

All I can say is I'm impressed with both of you. Honestly impressed. What delightful replies. 

 

2 hours ago, truckguy82 said:

Yeah I’ve mentioned that before as well, but big brakes do have importance. I doubt the stockers could handle a panic stock from 140mph or even come close to multiple full brake applications, like say aggressive driving or a race track.

 

As unlikely as that stuff sounds, I personally think its wise to always have the brakes be able to handle the engine. After all, brakes simply convert kinetic energy into heat, and then dissipate that heat. The source of kinetic energy is the engine. More power should mean more brakes, in theory. Granted these are trucks and 99.9% of the time you’ll be fine with the stockers regardless of how your driving and how much power you have since you better have a lot more mods if your way past 100mph or on a circuit track.

May I offer for your consideration the idea that your truck has brakes capable of stopping just not the truck but the truck at full payload under already demanding situations such as down hill in the Rockies. Even with grade braking the run down on the east slope of US 6 on the continental divide will have you on your brakes allot. 

 

Consider as well that even NASCAR brakes will not do a panic stop from 140 mph in the marbles. Tire grip is the ultimate test of dissipation of kinetic energy. That would give me, personally, pause pushing a box car to 140 mph on a public road.

Although I will admit to a time or two over 160 down I 25 in central New Mexico in my Vette where I was the only soul in site to the horizon line 20 miles away.  

 

It's certainly possible to improve any system. I will give you that. And if as you say you road race your school bus then it might be worth the time and $$$$. Just make sure tires are part of your braking upgrade. 

 

Every point you made was rock solid and I applaud the delivery. Well done. 

1 hour ago, newdude said:

 

Yep.  A performance truck tire will stop faster than a highway truck tire, which stops faster than an all terrain truck tire, which stops faster than a mud terrain, etc.  There are also some variables that can make them closer to each other like what size tire is being tested, tread compound, width, etc.  

 

An HT vs an AT tire can be a good 5-15 feet further stopping distance from 50-0mph.  Tread pattern has a lot of play in the AT field as the less aggressive ones like the Hankook Dynapro AT2 will stop faster than say a BFG AT KO2.  

 

HT tires https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=256

 

AT tires - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=240

               - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=249  BFG AT KO2 was 100ft, the Hankook AT2 was 87ft.  

 

General AT2 vs HTS60 - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=210

Absolutely true on every point. Well researched and very useful. Thank you. 

 

Someone mentioned brake bias percentages as having an impact some post ago. True and it is married to the

roll and pitch center locations, elevations and dampening rates. Something I found out braking for a deer some years ago after changing my spring and damper package which had a huge effect on braking distance and stability for the better. 

 

There is a world of improvement that can be made long before you ever touch a caliper rotor or pad. 

 

On a personal note.  I have had the unenviable experience of having been the driver of a car that was in a wreck where life was lost. I was very young but learned some very important lessons that have been with me my entire life. Foremost among them is;

 

You are never in as much control as you believe yourself to be. 

 

Do you consider Dale Earnhardt Sr. a better than average driver? Scott Kalitta? Ayrton Senna? Mark Donohue Jr.

 

Best equipment and training money and experience can buy. Dale made a living out of tapping bumpers or spoiling air and putting the best of the best to the wall. Happens accidently all the time. Every one of these guys died driving the best with the best. 

 

So...... look at the entire package. Anything and everything that has influence on 'control'  and stack the deck in your favor. 

Then play safe and take it to the track. 

 

 

[flyingfool]

more logical route would be installing 17" Tahoe PPV rims, they are smaller and lighter than monster 20" wheels,  then  Green stuff from EBC  pads, then sticky tires

 

I also found thru personal experience , that for emergency stops, or hard stops, one should shift your trans into neutral. this has a dramatic effect on braking distance.  I found it even gave the truck more rear brake bias by doing this.  

Edited September 30, 2020 by flyingfool

[doropallo]

On 9/29/2020 at 2:08 PM, Mike GMC said:

Semi metallic pads will dust like crazy, but they do work well.  I would recommend the power stop z36 setup with pads and rotors.  They are carbon ceramic so they are very low dust, but the carbon adds bite that plain ceramics lack.  If you are having fade issues, you may need to look at a full fluid flush with a higher temp fluid as well.  Stick with DOT 3 fluid only for street use.  Just flush it more often if fade returns.

I just got these on Amazon for my 2016 GMC Sierra SLT Crew Cab, $422. They were 10 dollars more than the Z23 so I got them. The rotors are very heavy, the box was huge.

[gastonhector]

I just got these on Amazon for my 2016 GMC Sierra SLT Crew Cab, $422. They were 10 dollars more than the Z23 so I got them. The rotors are very heavy, the box was huge.

Do you have a “review”
Of this brakes?


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

[doropallo]

On 10/22/2020 at 7:20 PM, gastonhector said:

Do you have a “review”
Of this brakes?


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Not yet, I haven't had time to do it yet, between a vacation and a relative in Hospice it's tough. But I do have the Z23s on my wife's Acura MDX and they're awesome, no dust, great stopping power. Just make sure they're broken in correctly.