Would diesel work for me or stick to gas?

topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

Some want better engines, some want better equipment, some want better off-roading capability. Engine was my least priority, but I wanted decent gas mileage and the 5.3 delivers, even with that supposedly troublesome 8-speed automatic your mechanic regularly has to tear down....
.

It's not just the tech, now bear in mind I live in Alaska where these vehicles are going to basically be doing durability testing their entire life. Everything from -45 degree cold starts, from October to April the roads are packed ice and snow meaning they're constantly slipping and sliding. releasing traction and then suddenly grabbing traction. (Popped a few teeth on my 2500HD G80 this winter [emoji35] made it to 200k miles, survived 650 RWHP on 35's with the previous owner, and a single winter killed it.)

I literally bought one (2019 5.3 LTZ Tech) and returned the whole truck over the powertrain. at light throttle trying to get good fuel economy and having the engine shift at about 1700 RPM this shift was very drawn-out, delayed and then it would clunk into gear. So drawn out it would actually stop accelerating. Mid throttle 3000 to 4300 RPM shifts were clean, quick and precise. (Actually quicker than the 10speed) what really fell apart for me was at Full throttle.

it was literally exactly how I would have speced an LTZ, other than the missing adaptive cruise and the stupid accessory 22 inch wheels! and I had to return it because I knew me and that powertrain would turn into every two weeks at the dealer.

I can deal with a clunky low speed tuning as long as as the throttle angle increases the transmission shifts quicker. That wasn't the case there was a good second to second half delay at Full throttle. this engine makes no torque at high RPM and there is no way for you to force the engine to short shift. It MUST maintain momentum through the shift. The delay means it fell on its face and then had to try to rebuild momentum but now you're at high RPM where there's no torque to do that. 0-75 on the test drive was completely fine. The issue was 45 to 70 was complete trash. everytime it shifted it lost all of that momentum needed to carry it through the shift. which meant the shift felt lazy, clunky, and delayed.

There is no reason whatsoever for it to be like this. This transmission survives just fine behind a CTS-V. I've driven a CTS-V it sure as hell doesn't behave like that under Full throttle. (Meaning it isn't a durability concern)

the issue I ran to is if it's behaving like this at 500 Miles what's it going to be like at 70,000 miles. I also had the shutter issue as well that GM is currently involved in a class-action lawsuit over. Dealer verified the behavior.

The 10 speed is okay I suppose..... it started life in the ZL1, has been used for many years behind Ford's EcoBoost. It has the capability to perform shifts in 150ms, LITERALLY the blink of an eye. They turned it down to at least 750ms for truck use.

My only real issue with tuning, other then the lack of response, has to do with when setting off from a stop light with the 3.23s you have torque limited in first and if you give it more power when the engines planning on upshifting it'll still perform the upshift even though you're at 3/4 throttle now and then suddenly release 480 lb of torque to the rear wheels which makes the engine mounts slam.

and before you go on and on about how it's a truck not sports car

that's fine the problem is when a transmission is originally designed to do something such as quick shifts and maintain durability. when they lengthen that shift time durability falls. by forcing is to clunk the transmissions also absorbing that shock load instead of the tires.

GM knows how to tune a transmission I have absolutely no complaints whatsoever with my Allison. Even with 200k+ HARD miles.

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topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

I haven't read all three pages of responses, so I apologize if this has been addressed. But as having owned both a gas Colorado and Silverado, and having a close friend owning both in diesel, I felt I had some insight to share.

The Colorado is a fantastic truck. For its size, it's roomy, and does the job well. I had a 2016 Z71 4x4 with the V6. I averaged 24mpg with mixed city and highway driving. Going off-road, it was very sure of itself and I was able to take it through some nasty stuff - including a pretty bad winter storm in Michigan. I had almost 40k miles on it when traded - nothing but oil changes and the few recalls that popped up. It never once gave me an issue. My dad had the WT with the V6 and put almost 80k on it before it got totaled. He never had an issue with it, just standard maintenance and recalls. I don't recall what MPG he got, but it was a bit better than mine, obviously so. He did tow with it quite a bit, never an issue.

I traded it in for my Silverado, RST 5.3l 4x4 with Z71, because I met my now wife and went from just me and my lab, to me, my wife and three dogs - 1 lab, 1 GSP, and 1 midsized loveable mutt. The Colorado worked, but it was feeling cramped for road trips. The Silverado has just shy of 16k miles on it. Same thing, only oil changes and recalls - no issues. I'm averaging about 21mpg. The Silverado is comfortable, but the leg room does leave a bit to be desired due to the dead pedal.

My buddy bought a GMC Canyon with the diesel soon after I bought my Colorado. The trucks were identical, except his was GMC with the diesel. He paid about 6-7k more for his. He did average about 30mpg. Never had an issue. He traded it in for his Sierra AT4 with the diesel. Last I heard, he's getting upper 20s for MPG. I don't remember off the top of my head how much he paid, and its not true apples to apples comparing a fully loaded AT4 to a mid level RST - but I think it was about 15k difference or so. He's only had it a month, but has taken it on short trips. No issues. He felt the gas engines performed better on test drives, but went with the diesel for the MPG and longevity.

If it were me and my money, I would not get the 4 cyl gas engines. IMO, I just don't see them lasting long term like the V8's will. If you're looking for best bang for your buck, I would get a Colorado with the V6 so long as you don't need the space of the Silverado. The Colorado, depending on trim, may be as much as 10k less than that of a similar equipped Silverado. IIRC, I paid about 35k for my Colorado and 43k for my Silverado. If you do need the extra space of the Silverado, the 5.3l V8 is a tried and true engine that should last a long time - all the while providing fairly decent MPG.

As for diesel vs. gas... IMO it's an investment. You'll pay a premium for the diesel. If you trade your truck in every few years, never breaking 100k miles on them, it's most likely the up front investment of the diesel will not be recouped at the time of trade in. However, if you do plan to keep this truck for a long time, and will be putting more than 100k miles on it, the upfront investment may be recouped. But even then, is 5-8 mpg really that big a difference at the end of the day? To some, yes, and if so for you, then the diesel is the obvious choice. But, I'd steer clear of the 4cyl in both the Colorado and Silverado.

Very well spoken. I take my vehicles everywhere and through everything. I've been as high as 13,000 feet. At those elevations the naturally aspirated really began to struggle. Once I drove the 5.3 and realize it wasn't good enough. I knew it was going to be between the 3.0 in the 6.2. I couldn't get my hands on a 6.2 Max tow (you're going to get bad mileage you might as well have capability) so the 3.0 is what I grabbed.

It was about a month later that I finally drove a 4.3 custom. I honestly thought on my initial drive of it that it was the 5.3 just with MUCH better tuning. I didn't notice a difference in acceleration until I got on the freeway and pulled it over 65. it has a proper wide powerband and although it doesn't make good horsepower on paper the torque stays with it. The transmission tuning was sublime.

For me knowing that I drive from Alaska to AZ at least once a year the diesel made sense. I have a 110 gallon tank that will allow me to drive all the way through Canada without having to stop to fuel even with the trailer.

Now if I could only bring myself to go ahead and sell my 2500 HD.

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ullose272 · June 22, 2020

I know for me, it was bewean the 6.2 and 3.0, so i was going to be paying for the premium engine reguardless. Ive been wanting chevy to come out with a 1500 diesel for years now and they finally did. So thats what i got, and i honestly could not be happier with it. I drive to my cabin every weekend, 2 hours, and it averages 30 mpg on that trip vs the 16-18 my 5.3 got. For me its not really about saving money at the pump, but how far i can go on a tank. I like the ability of not having to stop on long trips. Plus this thing has a ton of torque, rarely has to downshift to pull grades. The dmax/trans work amazingly well. Its a great package imo

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Wiggums · June 22, 2020

5 hours ago, topgear1224 said:

It's not just the tech, now bear in mind I live in Alaska where these vehicles are going to basically be doing durability testing their entire life. Everything from -45 degree cold starts, from October to April the roads are packed ice and snow meaning they're constantly slipping and sliding. releasing traction and then suddenly grabbing traction. (Popped a few teeth on my 2500HD G80 this winter made it to 200k miles, survived 650 RWHP on 35's with the previous owner, and a single winter killed it.)

I literally bought one (2019 5.3 LTZ Tech) and returned the whole truck over the powertrain. at light throttle trying to get good fuel economy and having the engine shift at about 1700 RPM this shift was very drawn-out, delayed and then it would clunk into gear. So drawn out it would actually stop accelerating. Mid throttle 3000 to 4300 RPM shifts were clean, quick and precise. (Actually quicker than the 10speed) what really fell apart for me was at Full throttle.

it was literally exactly how I would have speced an LTZ, other than the missing adaptive cruise and the stupid accessory 22 inch wheels! and I had to return it because I knew me and that powertrain would turn into every two weeks at the dealer.

I can deal with a clunky low speed tuning as long as as the throttle angle increases the transmission shifts quicker. That wasn't the case there was a good second to second half delay at Full throttle. this engine makes no torque at high RPM and there is no way for you to force the engine to short shift. It MUST maintain momentum through the shift. The delay means it fell on its face and then had to try to rebuild momentum but now you're at high RPM where there's no torque to do that. 0-75 on the test drive was completely fine. The issue was 45 to 70 was complete trash. everytime it shifted it lost all of that momentum needed to carry it through the shift. which meant the shift felt lazy, clunky, and delayed.

There is no reason whatsoever for it to be like this. This transmission survives just fine behind a CTS-V. I've driven a CTS-V it sure as hell doesn't behave like that under Full throttle. (Meaning it isn't a durability concern)

the issue I ran to is if it's behaving like this at 500 Miles what's it going to be like at 70,000 miles. I also had the shutter issue as well that GM is currently involved in a class-action lawsuit over. Dealer verified the behavior.

The 10 speed is okay I suppose..... it started life in the ZL1, has been used for many years behind Ford's EcoBoost. It has the capability to perform shifts in 150ms, LITERALLY the blink of an eye. They turned it down to at least 750ms for truck use.

My only real issue with tuning, other then the lack of response, has to do with when setting off from a stop light with the 3.23s you have torque limited in first and if you give it more power when the engines planning on upshifting it'll still perform the upshift even though you're at 3/4 throttle now and then suddenly release 480 lb of torque to the rear wheels which makes the engine mounts slam.

and before you go on and on about how it's a truck not sports car

that's fine the problem is when a transmission is originally designed to do something such as quick shifts and maintain durability. when they lengthen that shift time durability falls. by forcing is to clunk the transmissions also absorbing that shock load instead of the tires.

GM knows how to tune a transmission I have absolutely no complaints whatsoever with my Allison. Even with 200k+ HARD miles.

The OP is not in Alaska. I do have the jerkiness issue but it goes away when it warms up. I don't know why you're going on and on about this, I get it, you hate the 8-speed.

Dunn · June 22, 2020

14 hours ago, Wiggums said:

My point was justifying the $6,560 premium for the 3.0 turbodiesel over the 2.7.

I just corrected my mistake. Still, $6,560 to save $400 driving 20,000 miles a year isn't worth it to me. Furthermore, diesel models aren't as heavily discounted as the petrol models.. that's another $1,500 on top.

My RST 4x4 was only $1k above Custom even though difference in MSRP was about $7k. The "value leader" is kind of moot point after you factor in dealership discounts.

"... saving money you shouldn't be purchasing new..." I bought new to save money. $11k discount.. or I could buy a two-year-old used at $11k off. What's more was that my 2019 was a newly redesigned model so I knew I'd get quite a bit back with the higher resale. I did that with my 2012 F-150 XLT 4x4, was $39k, bought for $29k, traded in four years later for $24k. I could have bought a used 2010 F-150 XLT 4x4 for the same amount of money, but that's kind of dumb. That's why I buy new trucks every 3 or 4 years. And then there's the warranty. If I don't get $11k off, I will not buy, period.

The fuel economy numbers on the sticker is about the best I'm going to get? No, I've managed to get 30 going 65 mph all the way on a flat surface and that was after 100 miles. I think EPA said 23 so.. like you, I am exceeding EPA ratings. And other members here have chimed in that the trip computer is on spot with accuracy, unlike the previous generation models.

There are over 20 dealerships so I used cars.com to search for new 4x4 trucks and picked what I wanted and sorted it by price. No hassle, just walk in, buy it, get out. A 110-mile trip that was worth it. No negotiating and I got $11k off MSRP on a newly redesigned 2019 RST. No brokers, none of that. Whole thing took me a few hours.

this is exactly why I bought new as well.....used truck prices were all % off MSRP not what owner paid for the truck new.....so it was a wash on 1 or 2 yr old truck with 20k miles or less vs new with big discount.....when I bought my RST I couldn't find anything in same price range for similar truck and trucks were older style.....I now have a 2500 HD and similar experience, though not quite as extreme...2020 is new model and there aren't many used.....if you can find a new truck with heavy incentives it will usually be cheaper than current used one....

also don't used trucks only have a 1yr warranty? (maybe depends on miles and registration)....new have 3/5yr

Edited June 22, 2020 by Dunn

topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

The OP is not in Alaska. I do have the jerkiness issue but it goes away when it warms up. I don't know why you're going on and on about this, I get it, you hate the 8-speed.

My biggest issue is that they purposely made it worse for the consumer when they already proved they know how to do it correctly!

I shouldn't drive my 2009 crown vic and go damn this transmission shifts better than a brand new $65,000 truck!

Or my 1995 f150 5.8 E4OD a transmission that's based on a transmission from the 60s!

or the 2019 Ram 1500 despite all of its major problems, when it worked, the transmission shifted better than either of them.

I'm just trying to give honest consumer advice before somebody invests in a asset that will always depreciate. I get it nobody cross shops trucks and BMWs Mercedes Audis. but when you start spending BMW money it better at least be built and tuned properly especially with the profit margins they run.

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Wiggums · June 22, 2020

17 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

....when you start spending BMW money it better at least be built and tuned properly especially with the profit margins they run.

You're kidding, right? I had BMW. I had Benz. I had Audi. All had reliability issues. And if BMW made a large pick-up truck with a V-8 and capable 4x4 system, do you actually think it will be only $65,000? There are always trade-offs to everything. I know what I am missing from my previous F-150. I know what I am gaining from my current Silverado.

topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

You're kidding, right? I had BMW. I had Benz. I had Audi. All had reliability issues. And if BMW made a large pick-up truck with a V-8 and capable 4x4 system, do you actually think it will be only $65,000? There are always trade-offs to everything. I know what I am missing from my previous F-150. I know what I am gaining from my current Silverado.

There's other reliable vehicles that immediately came to mind (Honda,Toyota) the problem was none of them were in this insane price class. My truck cost as much as a BMW M2, a purpose-built vehicle for the focus on handling and power. Trucks are purpose-built vehicles, focused on Towing and hauling. The manufacturer makes over $10,000 per truck sold. They are literally money printing machines. The Ford F-150 produces 90% of GLOBAL profits for Ford.

There is no reason whatsoever for such a high margin machine to not be built properly. NONE. At least Ford knows how to tune of freaking transmission.

we will see if these shortcomings lead to reliability issues my truck already needs new motor mounts at 5,000 miles.

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Puffer4tw · June 22, 2020

On 5/12/2020 at 2:26 PM, Ferrari Eater said:

I don't think most people buy pick up trucks to drag race...though I could be wrong

Most people don’t buy trucks for good gas mileage either.

Wiggums · June 22, 2020

25 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

There's other reliable vehicles that immediately came to mind (Honda,Toyota) the problem was none of them were in this insane price class. My truck cost as much as a BMW M2, a purpose-built vehicle for the focus on handling and power. Trucks are purpose-built vehicles, focused on Towing and hauling. The manufacturer makes over $10,000 per truck sold. They are literally money printing machines. The Ford F-150 produces 90% of GLOBAL profits for Ford.

There is no reason whatsoever for such a high margin machine to not be built properly. NONE. At least Ford knows how to tune of freaking transmission.

we will see if these shortcomings lead to reliability issues my truck already needs new motor mounts at 5,000 miles.

I looked, the M2 is $58,900. And has 405-hp engine? That's stupid. Get the Silverado Custom Trail Boss with the 6.2 with 420-hp for $20,000 less.

F-150 Limited costs $67,000, almost twice as much as the already nicely equipped XLT at $34,760, so it's the higher trim levels that help F-150's profitability. It's up to the customers to decide if the $33,000 premium for the nicer trim is worth it. The Tundra starts at $33,000 but you'd be lucky to find a discount as big as Ford's. My first new XLT in 2012 was MSRP'd at $39,000, bought for $29,000. Better gas mileage and more power than Tundra at that time, and $10k cheaper.

And never had problems with it.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Wiggums

Wiggums · June 22, 2020

16 minutes ago, Puffer4tw said:

Most people don’t buy trucks for good gas mileage either.

I buy new trucks almost mainly due to resale value.

My 2008 Mercedes-Benz E350 had 268hp, EPA said 16 city, 22 highway, I was lucky to get 20 on the highway! Bought it at $55,000, traded in for a lousy $21,000.

My 2012 Ford F-150 had 360hp V8, EPA said 17 city, 23 highway, I easily beat that a few times. Bought it at $29,000 (MSRP $39,00), traded in for a decent $24,000.

I regularly get $10k to $12k off the MSRP and enjoy incredible resale. The gas mileage isn't so bad, my F-150 had 4x4, more power, and better gas mileage.

topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

I looked, the M2 is $58,900. And has 405-hp engine? That's stupid. Get the Silverado Custom Trail Boss with the 6.2 with 420-hp for $20,000 less.

..... The point was purpose-built vehicles. Not HP/dollar. HP/$ is still owned by the scat pack at 39,995 for 485HP I believe. As far as performance cars.

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Wiggums · June 22, 2020

2 minutes ago, topgear1224 said:

..... The point was purpose-built vehicles. Not HP/dollar. HP/$ is still owned by the scat pack at 39,995 for 485HP I believe. As far as performance cars.

Don't care much for that anyways, you can buy nicely-equipped with lower power. OP wants better gas mileage. I simply pointed out the price premium just may not be worth it, that's all.

topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

.

I regularly get $10k to $12k off the MSRP and enjoy incredible resale. The gas mileage isn't so bad, my F-150 had 4x4, more power, and better gas mileage.

My 2019 RAM 1500 Larmie 5.7 4X4 was 65k MSRP with accessories, 59,995 sticker paid 50k OTD.

with 13,000 miles traded in at $36k.....

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topgear1224 · June 22, 2020

Don't care much for that anyways, you can buy nicely-equipped with lower power. OP wants better gas mileage. I simply pointed out the price premium just may not be worth it, that's all.

But if you're shopping for the Diesel. He's already planning on spending that much.

meaning if you're going to spend that much anyway I think it makes more sense to get the diesel if you're concerned about fuel economy.

Lower-level chargers have open diffs

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