Would diesel work for me or stick to gas?

FN in MT · May 12, 2020

6 hours ago, newdude said:

The trip to town alone would push me towards diesel for your scenario. Even at those higher speeds you will get better MPGs than a gas truck. The 2.8 in the small twins might actually get a touch worse at 75-80mph as its 3.42 gearing and a 6 speed vs. the 3.0 in the big twins that has 3.23 gearing and a 10 speed. You can even get 3.73 with the diesel offroad package and even that will still turn less RPM probably than the smaller diesel.

Both the Colorado/Canyon 2.8 Duramax and the Silverado/Sierra 3.0 Duramax can be equipped factory with block heaters. Neither truck uses a winter cover. The Silverado/Sierra 3.0 Duramax has the active cooling shutters that can close right up in the winter to heat the truck faster.

DEF is pretty straight forward. Loaded driving/towing and stop/go driving will increase the usage of DEF. The tank and lines are heated to keep it from freezing. The freeze point is 11F for DEF. The tanks are 5 gallons, and typically will get you 5000-8000 miles per tank depending on how much it uses. My 2016 Colorado diesel I had went about 6500 miles before the 1000mi warning came on the dash (tank was full to start). During winter you want to keep it 1/2 tank or more as it will reduce the chances of totally freezing.

Colorado tows great too. I picked up a John Deere X720 with a 2 place sled trailer, towed my friend's 20x10 landscape trailer to haul a commercial Zero Turn and also his 4500lbs dry dump trailer with about 1500lbs of mulch in it. Even moved an enclosed and loaded 22x10 for a friend who's truck broke down. I haven't towed with a 3.0 yet.

Good info....Thank You.

I got educated today on how the EPA has killed diesel engines. Typical Government, their solution far worse than the problem. Sad.

I'll probably go Silverado and GAS. I will drive the Colorado diesel though.

I'm well aware of todays turbo 4's. Wife has a new Honda CR-V and my toy is a 2018 Porsche Cayman with a turbo'd four.

Pyroman_28 · May 17, 2020

On 5/12/2020 at 7:30 PM, FN in MT said:

Good info....Thank You.

I got educated today on how the EPA has killed diesel engines. Typical Government, their solution far worse than the problem. Sad.

I'll probably go Silverado and GAS. I will drive the Colorado diesel though.

I'm well aware of todays turbo 4's. Wife has a new Honda CR-V and my toy is a 2018 Porsche Cayman with a turbo'd four.

If by "killed diesel engines" you mean stopping bro's from being able to delete their emissions equipment and roll coal everywhere than yes, they have killed them. This 3.0 Duramax is not like the older diesel engines that struggled to adapt to modern emissions requirements when all the rules came down. This engine was designed from the ground up for the rules and regulations in place today and although this engine is so new nobody can really tell anything about longevity at this point, I think GM has set this engine up to thrive. You would be doing yourself a disservice to write off the 3.0 without giving it a fair shake.

As for the 2.8 vs the 3.0, it's not really a debate. The 3.0 gets better fuel economy, has more power and comes in a bigger truck.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Pyroman_28

ullose272 · May 20, 2020

I came from a 14 with a 5.3 and have a 3.0 diesel now. I love this truck. I love that when pulling hills it just lugs down and spools up and just chugs along, and doesnt have to hold 4000 rpms all th way up the hill. The 10 speed is really really good, and it gets awesome milieage. Id say the only flaw is the lack of higher rpm power.

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topgear1224 · May 20, 2020

Get the 1500 with the 4 cylinder turbo. Great fuel economy on cheap regular unleaded and no diesel emissions crap to worry about. Will tow 7200lb which should be fine for your mower. The deals on the Silverado are usually a lot better than on the Colorado.

At 80 he will be always on the boost, at 14psi it's going to use as much fuel as a 5.4 V8!!! Base 4.3 makes wayy more sense and tows more than the 2.7l.

"High"RPM with normally aspirated engines doesn't normally kill fuel economy but high RPM with a modern turbocharged engine will always.

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topgear1224 · May 20, 2020

I came from a 14 with a 5.3 and have a 3.0 diesel now. I love this truck. I love that when pulling hills it just lugs down and spools up and just chugs along, and doesnt have to hold 4000 rpms all th way up the hill. The 10 speed is really really good, and it gets awesome milieage. Id say the only flaw is the lack of higher rpm power.

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The torque converter not locking up under Full throttle till 70 miles an hour is where you're feeling that lack of high-end. also to be honest it really could do with a faster flowing water pump for the intercooler.

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topgear1224 · May 20, 2020

4.3 custom V6 is The Sweet spot in the range. You get work truck seats so they're nice and durable. you get 20 inch wheels which if you get a 4x4 with all terrains means you also get the largest tire size offered which is 33s.

The 5.3L lack of high RPM power ruins the engine for me completely. Then GM gave it horrible throttle response and it's just not worth it. I had a 4.3 custom loaner when my 5.3 8sp was first in the shop and I honestly didn't know it was a 4.3 until I looked under the hood I thought it was a 5.3. why? Throttle response. And it doesn't hesitate to kick down. 5.3 always had to floor it to get it to drop down gears.

does the 4.3 make a ton of high RPM power? no but it makes a ton of torque and holds onto it through his Rev range unlike the 5.3 that falls on its face.

You didn't say you need to tow heavy. So 5.3 and 6.2 doesn't really make sense. You would be paying for capacity you aren't going to use.

if you wanted to compare at slower speeds the 3.0 would win every single day. at 55mph on cruise control through the rolling hills of Alaska I average 33 MPG over an entire tank. 5.3 was getting 19mpg same route same speed. GMC has worse aerodynamics than the Silverado so Silverados would do even better.

if you're looking at running at 80mph I would not even consider GMC as around 70 miles an hour the economy starts to fall off due to worse drag.

The 4.3 custom 4X4 was $15,000 less than my GMC elevation 3.0. 15 grand goes a lot further than you think in fuel. Only thing I truly hated was the radio but you can fix that relatively easy for about $750 after purchase. it's not cheap but again you're saving 15 grand upfront.

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the wanderer · May 21, 2020

17 hours ago, topgear1224 said:

4.3 custom V6 is The Sweet spot in the range. You get work truck seats so they're nice and durable. you get 20 inch wheels which if you get a 4x4 with all terrains means you also get the largest tire size offered which is 33s.

The 5.3L lack of high RPM power ruins the engine for me completely. Then GM gave it horrible throttle response and it's just not worth it. I had a 4.3 custom loaner when my 5.3 8sp was first in the shop and I honestly didn't know it was a 4.3 until I looked under the hood I thought it was a 5.3. why? Throttle response. And it doesn't hesitate to kick down. 5.3 always had to floor it to get it to drop down gears.

does the 4.3 make a ton of high RPM power? no but it makes a ton of torque and holds onto it through his Rev range unlike the 5.3 that falls on its face.

You didn't say you need to tow heavy. So 5.3 and 6.2 doesn't really make sense. You would be paying for capacity you aren't going to use.

if you wanted to compare at slower speeds the 3.0 would win every single day. at 55mph on cruise control through the rolling hills of Alaska I average 33 MPG over an entire tank. 5.3 was getting 19mpg same route same speed. GMC has worse aerodynamics than the Silverado so Silverados would do even better.

if you're looking at running at 80mph I would not even consider GMC as around 70 miles an hour the economy starts to fall off due to worse drag.

The 4.3 custom 4X4 was $15,000 less than my GMC elevation 3.0. 15 grand goes a lot further than you think in fuel. Only thing I truly hated was the radio but you can fix that relatively easy for about $750 after purchase. it's not cheap but again you're saving 15 grand upfront.

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It's a pity GM doesn't give you the 10 speed on all engines. I would imagine the 10 speed with the v6 would be even more impressive. Same with the 4 banger turbo.

topgear1224 · May 21, 2020

It's a pity GM doesn't give you the 10 speed on all engines. I would imagine the 10 speed with the v6 would be even more impressive. Same with the 4 banger turbo.

Very true, however the tuning is damn near perfect on the base v6. The fact it comes with 3.42 is a big plus. The g80 engages cleanly, the trans downshifts when you move your foot, it delivers immediate power. It's like someone who actually cares tuned it. Never jerky, very linear. The 3.42 makes a HUGE difference in feel over the 3.23.

Also in "L" mode if you are doing 50 and tell it to shift to 1 as you slow down, it pulls off perfect blips all the way down. With the 10 speed you have to keep clicking the down arrow as you slow.

I can't stand that when I'm towing and need more engine braking and it just blinks for 3 seconds then doesn't shift as I slow. My new approach it to rapid fire the down arrow repeatedly as I slow down.

The work truck powertrain does exactly what you tell it it's up to you to extract fuel economy. I much prefer this to the whole 1-3 second delay in power.....

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Wintersun · May 30, 2020

I have been driving a diesel 2500 Duramax since 2011 and I can say that buying a diesel powered truck to save money on fuel costs is dumb. The engine adds $5,000 or more to the price for the truck. Where I live I pay $3.75 for diesel as compared to $2.45 for regular gas. With my diesel truck I spend 4x as much on fuel filter replacement and twice as much on battery replacement and twice as much for oil changes and I have the cost of DEF and diesel fuel additives and the costs for maintaining the emissions controls components.

Want the lowest fuel costs drive a Prius. I have the heavy duty pickup for hauling or towing heavy loads and it averages 16 mpg overall. The Prius averages 45 mpg and burns regular gas and after 97,000 miles has the original brakes and has only had two battery changes and a second set of tires put on it and Prius tires and batteries are a heck of a lot cheaper than the ones for my truck. The Prius is actually good for hauling and I even used it to pick up 28 cases of wine and bring them home from a distant winery.

I plan on selling my 2500HD truck this year and I will be replacing it with a 1500 class pickup with a gas V-6 engine and 3.92 gears. Such a truck will cost a lot less to own and operate. This will alter my "fleet" which consists of the 45 mpg Prius sedan and a 22 mpg Traverse SUV with the addition of a 18 mpg pickup. I put the most miles on the Prius and the least on the diesel pickup.

topgear1224 · May 30, 2020

Oil change on LM2 cost the same, oil filter is shared with the 2.7T.

Fuel additives are unnecessary, and your explicitly told not to use any in the owner's manual. which means if you were to have a fuel based failure, it's not getting covered. They now pull a sample of fuel in your tank and send it out to testing before authorizing a warranty repair.

The real question becomes is would you rather have the lm2 or the 6.2 as they cost the same.

For me personally I chose the LM2 because it has 40000 miles longer warranty. and because even in extreme stop-and-go situations where the 5.3 was getting 11 MPG its averaging 19. This is the majority of my daily mileage.

Bear in mind diesel is 2.65 a gallon and regular unleaded is 2.10 a gallon, however since were comparing to the 6.2 that price is 2.45 a gallon for "premium". (90 octane)

After having a 5.3 for 500 miles and feeling it was so bad that I had to push the dealer to trade me out of it for a different vehicle within a week. For me the only engine choices where the 3.0 and the 6.2. they didn't have any 6.2 is on the lot which then meant I had to choose between a red or Gray 3.0.

If I had driven the V6 custom similar to the loner that I received while my truck was in the shop. I likely would have actually chosen it instead, just because the way it drives is so much better and when you're saving $15,000 out the door fuel economy becomes no longer a concern.

the fuel filter minder has Delta sensors so it's not based on mileage or time it's actually based on performance of the filter for when that needs to be changed. Filters $50.

I need more time with my truck to truly determined def usage, I know that the more aggressively you drive it and the more RPMs that you hold with it, more importantly than actual load, determines your def usage.

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SMW · June 2, 2020

One thing to consider is who will fix the diesel when it breaks. My dealership only has 1 diesel mechanic and he is always behind. You could be without your vehicle for extended periods of time.

ullose272 · June 2, 2020

I have been driving a diesel 2500 Duramax since 2011 and I can say that buying a diesel powered truck to save money on fuel costs is dumb. The engine adds $5,000 or more to the price for the truck. Where I live I pay $3.75 for diesel as compared to $2.45 for regular gas. With my diesel truck I spend 4x as much on fuel filter replacement and twice as much on battery replacement and twice as much for oil changes and I have the cost of DEF and diesel fuel additives and the costs for maintaining the emissions controls components.

Want the lowest fuel costs drive a Prius. I have the heavy duty pickup for hauling or towing heavy loads and it averages 16 mpg overall. The Prius averages 45 mpg and burns regular gas and after 97,000 miles has the original brakes and has only had two battery changes and a second set of tires put on it and Prius tires and batteries are a heck of a lot cheaper than the ones for my truck. The Prius is actually good for hauling and I even used it to pick up 28 cases of wine and bring them home from a distant winery.

I plan on selling my 2500HD truck this year and I will be replacing it with a 1500 class pickup with a gas V-6 engine and 3.92 gears. Such a truck will cost a lot less to own and operate. This will alter my "fleet" which consists of the 45 mpg Prius sedan and a 22 mpg Traverse SUV with the addition of a 18 mpg pickup. I put the most miles on the Prius and the least on the diesel pickup.

Comparing your 11 2500hd to a new lm2 is dumb. And less than 1/2 of what you are bitching about applies to the lm2.

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topgear1224 · June 2, 2020

One thing to consider is who will fix the diesel when it breaks. My dealership only has 1 diesel mechanic and he is always behind. You could be without your vehicle for extended periods of time.

Find another dealership, if they are behind yet refuse to hire another diesel technician and they're tighter than two coats of paint, and you don't want your truck serviced there. that same dealership will buy the cheapest oils possible will do the minimum work possible and do likely the worst job possible.

it's like the Ford dealer up here in Fairbanks Alaska if you go to schedule an appointment even if you're a cash-paying customer and they don't have to deal with warranty approvals they'll put you three months out. They do one job that's not quick lube per day they literally use a paper calendar. Complete trash. They also don't provide loaner cars if you have to leave your car there they only give you a loaner car while your car is in the shop for that one single day.

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TheVez · June 3, 2020

I came out of the supercrew 6 foot bed 4x4 ecoboost. It only ever got 14-15 mpg. Have had the same truck in the RST 3.0 for about 2 weeks and averaging 29’ish highway. Once this we get back to normal I’ll be driving 2k miles a month. If diesel costs .50 a gallon more than regular (right now it’s only .05 cents more) I’ll still save a 165’isg dollars a month on fuel. I’m driving a nicer newer truck. No it’s not a Prius but I didn’t want a third vehicle that’d I’d have to maintain and register. Obviously it’s not gonna “pay for it self”. I like the choice I made. Oh yeah. First post. Woot!!

Wintersun · June 20, 2020

If you want to save money then slow down. A truck is basically a brick moving through the air and there is 4x as much drag at 80 mph as at 40 mph. My nephew was continually getting speeding tickets and eventually had to go to traffic school. The instructor advised the class to leave the house 5 minutes earlier so there was no need to speed. My nephew took the advice to heart and that was the end of the speeding tickets and also the end of his "accidents" on the road.

Diesel is great for maximum torque if pulling a 10,000 lb or greater tow load. As a daily driver it is the most expensive vehicle you can own. It starts with paying $6,000 more for the engine and then twice as much for batteries and fuel filter changes and oil changes. With a V-8 diesel it costs $5,000 to replace the fuel injectors and this is much more common with diesel engines as diesel fuel is extremely dirty. I have a 2011 Duramax and so know fully well the costs for owning and operating a truck with this engine and its related components.

Most fuel efficient truck is one with a V-6 engine that burns regular gas. It will require far less in maintenance and servicing and be far less likely to need repairs (and very expensive repairs). Gas engines became far more reliable and longer lasting when the oil companies stopped putting lead into gasoline in the 1970's as it had been a cheap way to make it more gasolijne more knock resistant (less prone to pre-ignition).

The truck manufacturers need to meet federal fleet fuel economy numbers and getting customers to buy cars and trucks with diesel engines is a win win for them. The manufacturers get higher fleet average miles per gallon and the cost for the more expensive to own and operated diesel engines is shouldered 100% but the customers. It is one of the better con jobs in recent years.

It is to get away from the high costs of ownership with diesel engines that all the major fleet operators with their trucks are eager to move to electric trucks. With less servicing there is more time spent on the road making money and less need for highly trained diesel mechanics which are very hard to find. Of the five Chevy dealers where I have had work done for problems with my truck's diesel engine, only one of them has a mechanic who can troubleshoot diesel engines.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Wintersun