Unique Position to perform bulletproofing of 2012 5.3 Silverado

[TheStug]

Hello,

 

2012 Silverado 4X4  Ext Cab LC9 with 101k miles.

 

As the title states, I have a unique situation. The cab and bed are entirely off of my truck (T-bone damage), thus I thought this would be a good time to do a DOD delete as well as any other recommended upgrades or repairs WHILE THE CAB AND BED ARE OFF! I haven't looked at too many kits yet (Scoggin Dickeys, Texas Speed, WS6Store, etc) and still figuring what I need/don't need. Definitely would like to put in a mild performance cam if it isn't too much extra.

 

I'm new to these trucks, so I don't know all the weak spots other than the DOD system. Basically, I'm interested in bulletproofing the system much like 6.0 powerstroke owners had to do.

 

I just heard about the oil pickup o-ring. WTH! Wow GM.... Worth it to do this at the same time as the DOD probably. Something about a AFM plate in the oil pan? But I'm open to your input. What else? something about timing chain guides??? I vaguely remember something about a fuel system issue being pretty common as well?

 

Sorry if I am all over the place. SO many questions right now. I just got the cab off yesterday and pretty much planning on ordering what I need by the end of this week

 

Be doing all the work myself

 

Thanks!

[CamGTP]

There is no AFM plate in the oil pan. There is only a oil pressure relief valve on the pan where the oil filter goes, if you remove the AFM/DoD system you can remove the valve and plug the hole. You should gain 5-10psi easy in overall oil pressure.

 

Doing the chain and stuff is up to you. They all have slack, even new chains.

 

You will have to decide if you want to keep VVT or delete that too. If you do remove it all, go with a standard 3 bolt camshaft and get a new 3 bolt 4X camshaft gear. The factory gear for the GEN 4 engines are a single bolt camshaft.

 

Fuel system is not an issue. You will have plenty of injector head room and fuel pump for a mild camshaft upgrade.

 

Not much else to do when you change all the other parts. New head gaskets and bolts etc etc. If you do the steps right you aren't going to pop a gasket or run into problems.

 

Also note that doing a AFM/DoD delete and VVT delete will require a custom tune before you can even let the truck run. With all those parts removed it will probably run on 4 cylinders if you're lucky because that stuff needs to be shut off. Then the camshaft will need tuning to dial everything else in.

[swathdiver]

Aftermarket camshafts are about $450 and most require stiffer springs.  Most of these raise the rpm band to increase power at the expense of low rpm torque.  

 

What is your budget?  Consider an L9H!  Still need a tune anyway.  

[TheStug]

I am keeping my VVT.

 

My budget for doing bulletproofing and slightly better cam along with tune would be about $2000 max. I would do upwards of $3000 if I can knock some more unreliable parts out of the way. A engine swap is just not in the cards. Unless I got one for free lol. The idea really is just to save repair expenses down the road. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say. But really, I don't want to get too crazy with this. I'm planning on building a 89 camaro later on for my play thing.

 

Thanks for the comment about the Oil relief valve. Really want to get all things like that out of the way for peace of mind while I have easy access.

 

The comment about valve springs reminds me, someone mentioned something about GM having basically junk valves from factory that wobble a lot and cause a lot of wear on the valve seat. Is this true? I guess I can do a leakdown test or something like that and a visual inspection.

 

Off to do some more research.

 

Any more suggestions?

[CamGTP]

Never heard of that issue with the factory valves or springs. The 243/799 heads are some of the best ones ever made from the factory for a 4.8/5.3 engine, nothing but good things from them. Whichever VVT camshaft you pick should have a recommended valve spring to run with it.

[TheStug]

In case it wasn't already painfully obvious, this is my first attempt at a mild engine build. I'm good with a wrench, but just haven't dealt with the logistics of building an engine before. So, I'm learning as I go.

 

The biggest problem I'm having right now is choosing a VVT/non DOD cam. I have yet to find a good forum thread compilation of cams and their general characteristics or design intent (high rpm power, mild street, etc) for the 5.3. So as of right now, I still have no clue what cams would give what I'm looking for. If anyone knows of a good thread with tons of info on cams available (not cams for crazy 800 HP builds and twin turbos and yadda yadda)

 

I just looked at BTR cams either the "Torque" or Stage 1 or Stage 2 and it looks interesting. However, where is all the info on what to expect with each cam? Lack of information on the product pages really is a pet peeve and really turns me off from wanting to buy their products. Looks like they are made by Comp cams? Anyone have experience with BTR cams?

 

If I can't find something I'm happy with or confident that I know what to expect out of it, I'll just stick a cam with stock profile on it and be done with it.

 

Again, If anyone knows a good thread with info about cam choices, please post here. 

[swathdiver]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:11 PM, TheStug said:

In case it wasn't already painfully obvious, this is my first attempt at a mild engine build. I'm good with a wrench, but just haven't dealt with the logistics of building an engine before. So, I'm learning as I go.

 

The biggest problem I'm having right now is choosing a VVT/non DOD cam. I have yet to find a good forum thread compilation of cams and their general characteristics or design intent (high rpm power, mild street, etc) for the 5.3. So as of right now, I still have no clue what cams would give what I'm looking for. If anyone knows of a good thread with tons of info on cams available (not cams for crazy 800 HP builds and twin turbos and yadda yadda)

 

I just looked at BTR cams either the "Torque" or Stage 1 or Stage 2 and it looks interesting. However, where is all the info on what to expect with each cam? Lack of information on the product pages really is a pet peeve and really turns me off from wanting to buy their products. Looks like they are made by Comp cams? Anyone have experience with BTR cams?

 

If I can't find something I'm happy with or confident that I know what to expect out of it, I'll just stick a cam with stock profile on it and be done with it.

 

Again, If anyone knows a good thread with info about cam choices, please post here. 

There is a guy who posted on two other forums his experiences with a mild truck cam by Cam Motion.  I am not a fan of high lift, long duration cams for a truck cam.  By long, I mean more than 210 degrees.  My thoughts are in the minority.  However, most who pick these "little" Stage cams trade away a lot of low end torque and raise their power band.  

 

When my time comes, I'm going to install either a Crane Cam 1449501 or a BTR "Truck Torque Cam".  The latter is not even made anymore (I want it anyway!).  These are single pattern camshafts designed to work without VVT, for pre-VVT 5.3 engines which is what I have.  They could work with VVT but are not optimized for it.  The Gen III L33 and the 2007-2009 Truck 5.3s with AFM all had that single pattern grind.  Last time I looked, there is NO information about the BTR camshaft and very little about the Crane offering.  Marken Performance posted engine dyno figures.  

 

When I used to build and race turbocharged engines 30+ years ago, most camshafts actually robbed power.  

[TheStug]

Upon further research, a lot of the cams that were being marketed for cam swaps are for DOD and VVT delete... I didn't realize the BTR truck cam was for VVT delete. Oops, yeah like I said, i'm not really sure what the hell I'm doing, lol but I'm trying to learn. I really haven't found any common/proven VVT compatible cam grinds that would already have a well known tune for it (eliminating the pain of a custom tune with VVT). Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places on forums.

 

At this point I am 95% committed to saying screw it, reduce the hassle and just get a GM 12689035 cam from the pre-AFM/DOD days. If I get this cam, I will just need the tuner to tune out the DOD, nothing else correct? I'm also hoping I can install the cam without needing to remove the heads. But I will be looking into swap guides and seeing what must be done and what parts.

 

Anyway, BACK TO THE "BULLETPROOFING" THEME!

 

1. Another thing I read that I could upgrade or "bulletproof" would be the Rocker arm trunnions. Yeah, not sure if this is something I should worry about (not expecting sustained high RPM operation) but uhhh, the idea that the needle bearing cap could push off and dump a bunch of needles into the oiling system definitely would haunt my dreams...

 

2. Also, replace valve springs with Beehive springs? Less mass and lower seat pressure increases valvetrain life and increases efficiency ever so slightly?

[CamGTP]

The heads must come off. The DoD lifters must be replaced as they are not the same as the non DoD lifters. New lifters and stock length pushrods are needed if you swapped to a stock non DoD camshaft.

 

Any aftermarket camshaft that is larger needs a custom tune. There is no pre-made tune that would be 100% spot on as the airflow and fueling requirements for each engine just has too many variables.

 

Replaced with a stock non DoD camshaft should only need the DoD and VVT stuff turned off and ideally a few data logs done to make sure it's running good.

 

The tunnion upgrade is not a bad idea, it's not very expensive to do. New valve springs with all the other new parts wouldn't hurt either.

[garagerog]

OP, I know you're focused on the engine, but with the bed off and over 100K on your vehicle, now might be a good time to switch out the in-tank fuel pump. Replace with Delco or Delphi.

[swathdiver]

3 hours ago, TheStug said:

At this point I am 95% committed to saying screw it, reduce the hassle and just get a GM 12689035 cam from the pre-AFM/DOD days.

No!  That camshaft is smaller than your stock cam.  That grind is from the Gen III 4.8s and early 5.3s.  So many reputable vendors tout that grind as a stock replacement and they are wrong and won't correct the mistake.  They must've bought a lot of them!

 

You already have beehive valve springs.

 

As Cameron said, you must pull your heads to delete AFM.  It is SOP to replace the Lifter Guides.  You can turn VVT off in the tune and or physically delete it.  It is good for a solid 1 MPG for city and highway mileage and lowers the torque band by about 400 RPMs over the 2007-2009 5.3s.  

 

I see guys putting in these big cams and they love the sound but few comment on actual power gains later on.  Some have shown dyno numbers and quarter mile passes but they did other things too.  One guy, if memory serves, did the tune, cam and headers, exhaust and CAI and was still under 300 RWHP.  My truck is completely stock save for a BlackBear tune and she puts down 307 RWHP through the traps in the quarter mile.  This is mathematical calculation on an actual race track, not a chassis dyno.

 

Your stock cam:

12625436 - 196 201 .481 .481 116+2

 

My stock cam:

12593207 - 193 193 .482 .482 116

 

The above grind available in Gen III without AFM:

12583623 - 193 193 .482 .482 116 

 

L9H (6.2) VVT non AFM Camshaft:

12623065 - 198 209 .500 .500 115

 

Something not seen in these specs are the shapes of the lobes, how fast they open and close the valves, whether they make for a noisy valvetrain and are hard on the springs and valves and lifters, etc.  These stock cams take all that into consideration for long life and quietness, something the aftermarket may or may not focus on or consider.

[TheStug]

Good idea on the fuel pump!

 

Thanks Swath for bring to attention the difference in the grind of the cam... I would've bought that cam, with lower duration, being none the wiser... 

 

Curious, did you list the L9H cam specs because it's been used in the 5.3 with success? It looks very similar to the LQ9 (non VVT I'm guessing) which has been documented in 5.3s, with not much power gains, but not sure on preserving mileage which is up there in importance. Maintaining reliability with low ramp rates is also important to me.

 

Importance on scale of 1-10, 10 being most important

1. Longevity of parts - 10

2. Maintaining or improving MPG - 8

3. Small bump in power - 4

 

So, I can do without much in power gains. If the L9H cam will satisfy these criteria, and nothing else is going to work for a $250 or less cam, then I guess that's what I'll do. However, I'll continue my search for choosing cam and look for documented instances of L9h cams in LC9s 

[swathdiver]

16 hours ago, TheStug said:

Good idea on the fuel pump!

 

Thanks Swath for bring to attention the difference in the grind of the cam... I would've bought that cam, with lower duration, being none the wiser... 

 

Curious, did you list the L9H cam specs because it's been used in the 5.3 with success? It looks very similar to the LQ9 (non VVT I'm guessing) which has been documented in 5.3s, with not much power gains, but not sure on preserving mileage which is up there in importance. Maintaining reliability with low ramp rates is also important to me.

 

Importance on scale of 1-10, 10 being most important

1. Longevity of parts - 10

2. Maintaining or improving MPG - 8

3. Small bump in power - 4

 

So, I can do without much in power gains. If the L9H cam will satisfy these criteria, and nothing else is going to work for a $250 or less cam, then I guess that's what I'll do. However, I'll continue my search for choosing cam and look for documented instances of L9h cams in LC9s 

I put the L9H cam as something to consider and compare other camshafts with.  Of course, I do not know the lobe shape but the engine is well known for making great power but the Gen IV 6.0 and 6.2 truck motors have larger heads which flow more air.

 

Crane's "smallest" truck cam is "larger" than the L9Hs camshaft, it is the 1449541 (200 208 .502 .502 115).  Cam Motion's Stage 2 LS Truck cam is also larger (206 210 .501 .501 115+5).  Cam Motion has been refining and tweaking their grinds constantly, every visit to the page a while back showed that the cam specs kept changing and these are from about a year or so ago so maybe they've nailed it down to their liking.

 

My goals are similar to yours, I'm going with the little Crane 1449501 someday.  But then again, might just get hold of an L9H!

[TheStug]

This is pretty frustrating... I seriously find it hard to believe that NO ONE offers a mild/towing "truck" cam that retains VVT! I have sent Cam Motion and Crane Cams an email asking this question.

 

Swathdiver, you seem pretty knowledgeable. If I were deleting VVT, I'm pretty sure I'd go Stage 1 from Cam Motion.

 

I actually did some more searching in the middle of writing this reply and I may have found one place so far that MIGHT offer a cam that retains VVT. In this thread, post #22. https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1741621-cam-motion-5-3-drop-cam-results-41rwhp-22rwtq-2.html However, I can't find it on their website! (sound of ripping hair out). Ugh, I'm done for tonight.

 

I'm considering just ripping out VVT as well, sheesh.... 

Edited May 5, 2020 by TheStug
clarification

[swathdiver]

2 hours ago, TheStug said:

This is pretty frustrating... I seriously find it hard to believe that NO ONE offers a mild/towing "truck" cam that retains VVT! I have sent Cam Motion and Crane Cams an email asking this question.

 

Swathdiver, you seem pretty knowledgeable. If I were deleting VVT, I'm pretty sure I'd go Stage 1 from Cam Motion.

 

I actually did some more searching in the middle of writing this reply and I may have found one place so far that MIGHT offer a cam that retains VVT. In this thread, post #22. https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/1741621-cam-motion-5-3-drop-cam-results-41rwhp-22rwtq-2.html However, I can't find it on their website! (sound of ripping hair out). Ugh, I'm done for tonight.

 

I'm considering just ripping out VVT as well, sheesh.... 

Are you talking about that 206 206 camshaft?  That was a custom grind specified by the customer.  They never answered my question either, post too old I guess and that was three years ago.

 

Texas Speed started messing with VVT but their grinds are too big in my opinion for a truck.  VVT is great technology but these guys haven't spent the time to work with it and maximize performance with it.

 

Crane has menus for VVT cams but still doesn't show anything.  Comp cams has them for race cars.  Gwatney has them for 6.2 truck motors.  Might be a repackaged TSP cam!

 

Call Summit Racing tomorrow and ask them.