Question about new 2500HD Diesel tow capacity

fsunole33 · April 9, 2020

Hi guys, first off I am new to this forum so thanks for having me. I will confess up front I am not super knowledgeable when it comes to diesel trucks and towing with them. I have towed plenty of mid-size trailers/boats over the years, so physically towing is something I am comfortable with. I am looking for some guidance from any forum members that are willing to lend an ear and a helping hand, as my wife and I are about to build a tiny house that we plan to travel back to the east coast from Arizona in, and we are looking to purchase a new (or used) diesel truck to help us take care of the towing.

The tiny house we have designed can be built on a conventional trailer or a fifth wheel. While we know a fifth wheel is going to be the best for towing purposes, we are trying to exhaust all options to utilize a conventional trailer, since we like the way they look over the fifth wheel design. Our dilemma is finding the right diesel truck to tow the house (conventional or fifth wheel) across country- we plan to take it on quite a few trips over the next few years.

The tiny home is approximately 8.5’ wide by 13.5’ tall by 30’ long. Once completely, on the high end it could be as heavy as 15,000 pounds.

My question for you all, and I am open to suggestion on buying new versus used, is regarding the new 2020 2500HD Crew Cab Diesel 4x4 towing capacity. According to Chevrolet’s specs, these new modes with an 18/20 inch wheel size have a conventional tow capacity of 18,500 pounds. Is this accurate and if so, why would the wheel size matter compared to the 17 inch wheel?

Also, I have friends who tow 17-18k pounds using a fifth wheel setup on an older 2500 (2007) and they say a few year older model (such as a 2017) should have zero problems towing 14-15k pounds using a fifth wheel, but again the specs don’t support that claim. I just have had trouble finding solid info and am looking for any help!

Tomato · April 9, 2020

You really need to know what the tongue or pin (5th wheel) weight would be. My 2015 Sierra 2500 could "tow" a 17,100 pound fifth wheel, but my cargo capacity was only 1,700 pounds (difference between the truck with me and my stuff in it and my GVWR). a 17,000 pound 5th wheel will have a pin weight of about 3,400 pounds - double the available payload capacity.

MTU Alum · April 9, 2020

I will do my best to answer your questions. All OEMs including GM certify their trailering specs to the SAE standard J2807. The specification defines the base vehicle content, loading conditions, and physical testing needed to meet the standard. Asssuming you meet the physical testing, the trailer weight that a vehicle can haul is determined by RGAWR (gross rear axle rating), GVW (gross vehicle weight), and GCW (gross combine weight). For Class 2 and 3 trucks, SAE takes the base curb mass plus 300 lbs for passengers, 100 lbs for cargo, and tongue weight (10% for conventional) or pin weight (15% for GN or fifth wheels) and whatever you hit first of the three RGAWR, GVW, GCW determines the maximum trailer weight. You must stay under RGAWR, GVW, and GCW. So, if you and your wife are over 300 lbs, plan on carrying over 100 lbs in cargo in truck, and/or the tongue/pin weight are over the SAE percentages this would reduce your maximum trailering number. In most cases, maximum conventional trailering is determined by handling requirement and not vehicle masses (GVW/GCW/RGAWR).

On your tire question there are two things in play here. The first is RGAWR. The 17" tire has a RGAWR of 6390 lbs at 80 psi where the 18/20 tires has a RGAWR of 6600 lbs at 70 psi (7250 lbs at 80 psi). The carrying capacity of the tire goes up with width and pressure. Load range E tires max out at 80 psi so if you are at that pressure you are maxing out the tire's capability. Secondly, the narrower 17" tires don't handle as well as the 18/20 tires. You generally will have more problems with trailer sway.

You really need to know what the expect tongue load and pin weights of your two trailer options. With the conventional trailer option, I would be really concerned with trailer sway with something that long and tall. On more typical enclosed trailers, you have the option of adding load equalization which helps with trailer sway. I don't think this is typically an option on this style of trailer.

On GM's pre 2020 trucks, the problem you typically run into is GVW. The Pre 2020 20 series trucks had GVWs 10000 lbs and below which lead to them not having much payload. So these trucks had pretty low fifth wheel and goosenecks tow numbers because with 15% pin weight you would hit GVW quickly.

If you were just going to tow short distances you may be fine with a 2500. If you are going to tow across country, I would recommend upgrading to 3500 truck. A dually would be ideal but, at the minimum you probably want a 3500 SRW. The weight really is not too much of the issue here its more about trailer sway and being able to drive confidently.

#iworkforGM

newdude · April 9, 2020

1 hour ago, fsunole33 said:

Hi guys, first off I am new to this forum so thanks for having me. I will confess up front I am not super knowledgeable when it comes to diesel trucks and towing with them. I have towed plenty of mid-size trailers/boats over the years, so physically towing is something I am comfortable with. I am looking for some guidance from any forum members that are willing to lend an ear and a helping hand, as my wife and I are about to build a tiny house that we plan to travel back to the east coast from Arizona in, and we are looking to purchase a new (or used) diesel truck to help us take care of the towing.

The tiny house we have designed can be built on a conventional trailer or a fifth wheel. While we know a fifth wheel is going to be the best for towing purposes, we are trying to exhaust all options to utilize a conventional trailer, since we like the way they look over the fifth wheel design. Our dilemma is finding the right diesel truck to tow the house (conventional or fifth wheel) across country- we plan to take it on quite a few trips over the next few years.

The tiny home is approximately 8.5’ wide by 13.5’ tall by 30’ long. Once completely, on the high end it could be as heavy as 15,000 pounds.

My question for you all, and I am open to suggestion on buying new versus used, is regarding the new 2020 2500HD Crew Cab Diesel 4x4 towing capacity. According to Chevrolet’s specs, these new modes with an 18/20 inch wheel size have a conventional tow capacity of 18,500 pounds. Is this accurate and if so, why would the wheel size matter compared to the 17 inch wheel?

Also, I have friends who tow 17-18k pounds using a fifth wheel setup on an older 2500 (2007) and they say a few year older model (such as a 2017) should have zero problems towing 14-15k pounds using a fifth wheel, but again the specs don’t support that claim. I just have had trouble finding solid info and am looking for any help!

The 17 inch wheels use a 121 load index tire, while the 18 and 20 inch wheels use a 125 or 126 load index tire. AKA, the wheel/tire packages in the 18" and 20" are rated for much more weight.

The 2020 trucks are a much better towing platform than even the 2011-2019 trucks, and those were a big step up from 2001-2010. The new truck has much stronger payloads both in 2500HD and 3500HD and much higher GVWR and GCWR ratings to get those results. A 3500HD single rear wheel however will still net you a higher payload and still might be your best bet if you were staying away from a dually.

As far as truck options, are you looking at like a base trim level like a WT? Or are you thinking an LT trim or LTZ or High Country? Believe it or not, the payloads in GM's literature are typically based on a WT trim with zero options. So, a High Country for example might have 100-200lbs less payload than a WT. On a 2500HD, this would be more impactful than on a 3500HD.

Edited April 9, 2020 by newdude

fsunole33 · April 9, 2020

35 minutes ago, MTU Alum said:

I will do my best to answer your questions. All OEMs including GM certify their trailering specs to the SAE standard J2807. The specification defines the base vehicle content, loading conditions, and physical testing needed to meet the standard. Asssuming you meet the physical testing, the trailer weight that a vehicle can haul is determined by RGAWR (gross rear axle rating), GVW (gross vehicle weight), and GCW (gross combine weight). For Class 2 and 3 trucks, SAE takes the base curb mass plus 300 lbs for passengers, 100 lbs for cargo, and tongue weight (10% for conventional) or pin weight (15% for GN or fifth wheels) and whatever you hit first of the three RGAWR, GVW, GCW determines the maximum trailer weight. You must stay under RGAWR, GVW, and GCW. So, if you and your wife are over 300 lbs, plan on carrying over 100 lbs in cargo in truck, and/or the tongue/pin weight are over the SAE percentages this would reduce your maximum trailering number. In most cases, maximum conventional trailering is determined by handling requirement and not vehicle masses (GVW/GCW/RGAWR).

On your tire question there are two things in play here. The first is RGAWR. The 17" tire has a RGAWR of 6390 lbs at 80 psi where the 18/20 tires has a RGAWR of 6600 lbs at 70 psi (7250 lbs at 80 psi). The carrying capacity of the tire goes up with width and pressure. Load range E tires max out at 80 psi so if you are at that pressure you are maxing out the tire's capability. Secondly, the narrower 17" tires don't handle as well as the 18/20 tires. You generally will have more problems with trailer sway.

You really need to know what the expect tongue load and pin weights of your two trailer options. With the conventional trailer option, I would be really concerned with trailer sway with something that long and tall. On more typical enclosed trailers, you have the option of adding load equalization which helps with trailer sway. I don't think this is typically an option on this style of trailer.

On GM's pre 2020 trucks, the problem you typically run into is GVW. The Pre 2020 20 series trucks had GVWs 10000 lbs and below which lead to them not having much payload. So these trucks had pretty low fifth wheel and goosenecks tow numbers because with 15% pin weight you would hit GVW quickly.

If you were just going to tow short distances you may be fine with a 2500. If you are going to tow across country, I would recommend upgrading to 3500 truck. A dually would be ideal but, at the minimum you probably want a 3500 SRW. The weight really is not too much of the issue here its more about trailer sway and being able to drive confidently.

#iworkforGM

Wow- first and foremost, thank you very much for taking the time to share your knowledge and expertise. In regards to the tire size, this makes total sense. In my simple mind, could you simply upgrade a "cheaper" MSRP 2020 Silverado 2500HD Diesel with 17" wheel size to the 18/20 inch wheels? The difference in price I am seeing here locally (Phoenix, AZ) is about 4-5k. Apologies if this is a silly question but nonetheless I am curious.

I have a custom tiny home builder building the frame/shell and my wife and I are planning to complete the interior of the tiny home ourselves. I will have to reach out to the builder to ask for specifics regarding the trailer, as this is something that he is taking care of. Once I receive that information I will absolutely share here.

I am highly considering the 3500 SRW over the 2500, but if that were the case I am thinking I would maybe like to save a few dollars and look for a 2015-2019 slightly used model. Assuming I went with the fifth wheel towing method, would say a 2015 3500HD Diesel 4x4 work okay I wonder?

fsunole33 · April 9, 2020

41 minutes ago, newdude said:

The 17 inch wheels use a 121 load index tire, while the 18 and 20 inch wheels use a 125 or 126 load index tire. AKA, the wheel/tire packages in the 18" and 20" are rated for much more weight.

The 2020 trucks are a much better towing platform than even the 2011-2019 trucks, and those were a big step up from 2001-2010. The new truck has much stronger payloads both in 2500HD and 3500HD and much higher GVWR and GCWR ratings to get those results. A 3500HD single rear wheel however will still net you a higher payload and still might be your best bet if you were staying away from a dually.

As far as truck options, are you looking at like a base trim level like a WT? Or are you thinking an LT trim or LTZ or High Country? Believe it or not, the payloads in GM's literature are typically based on a WT trim with zero options. So, a High Country for example might have 100-200lbs less payload than a WT. On a 2500HD, this would be more impactful than on a 3500HD.

Thank you very much for your insight and expertise as well- this is very helpful.

Honestly, we are not very picky and are more concerned with 1) performance and capability to tow our tiny house safely and 2) price. If I had to list off the few things that we absolutely need on the truck (which I assume are standard even on a WT) are cruise control, bluetooth capability, and power windows/locks. We even prefer cloth seats. My wife will be driving the truck daily as needed (we are trading in her mid-size pickup truck in exchange for this truck) so we really didn't want to get into a 1 ton but if it is what is needed then so be it. The towing capabilities in the 2020's is what is making us seriously consider buying new, although in an absolutely perfect world we would be in a 2018-2019 used 2500HD Diesel 4x4.

newdude · April 9, 2020

10 minutes ago, fsunole33 said:

Thank you very much for your insight and expertise as well- this is very helpful.

Honestly, we are not very picky and are more concerned with 1) performance and capability to tow our tiny house safely and 2) price. If I had to list off the few things that we absolutely need on the truck (which I assume are standard even on a WT) are cruise control, bluetooth capability, and power windows/locks. We even prefer cloth seats. My wife will be driving the truck daily as needed (we are trading in her mid-size pickup truck in exchange for this truck) so we really didn't want to get into a 1 ton but if it is what is needed then so be it. The towing capabilities in the 2020's is what is making us seriously consider buying new, although in an absolutely perfect world we would be in a 2018-2019 used 2500HD Diesel 4x4.

Bluetooth is standard across the board but for steering wheel bluetooth control you have to go to an LT for 2020.

2018-2019 you will definitely want to shop 1 ton. 2500HD in that year range are typically in the 2200-2600lbs range with the diesel. 1 ton will be 2900-3500lbs range.

fsunole33 · April 9, 2020

23 minutes ago, newdude said:

Bluetooth is standard across the board but for steering wheel bluetooth control you have to go to an LT for 2020.

2018-2019 you will definitely want to shop 1 ton. 2500HD in that year range are typically in the 2200-2600lbs range with the diesel. 1 ton will be 2900-3500lbs range.

That is great to know thank you. So you’d recommend that we would be okay with a used 1 ton fifth wheel (2018-2019) or a new 2020 2500HD fifth wheel, both would suffice with what we need?

Just from a price standpoint, would a 2015-2017 3500 diesel SRW suffice as well?

Edited April 9, 2020 by fsunole33

newdude · April 9, 2020

1 minute ago, fsunole33 said:

That is great to know thank you. So you’d recommend a used 1 ton fifth wheel or a new 2020 fifth wheel, both would suffice with what we need?

Honestly its really going to depend on the trailer setup. If you have confirmed for sure a conventional or 5th wheel, the exact or close to exact weight of the trailer and the tongue weight of the trailer. The GVWR of your house trailer would be a good starting point.

If the trailer has a gross of 15,000lbs for example, and lets say you go conventional hitch with it, GM recommends 10-15% of trailer weight to be tongue weight. So if that trailer loaded with gear, furniture, etc. comes in at exactly GVWR, then you should be between 1500-2250lbs tongue weight. It would leave some payload wiggle on a 2018-2019 3500hd, a tiny bit more on a 2020 2500hd, and plenty of room on a 2020 3500hd.

If you went gooseneck, GM says 15-25% of trailer weight should be tongue weight. Lets split it at 20% so of 15,000lbs total trailer weight, 3,000lbs would be on the 5th wheel hitch. That is right off the bat well over a 2018-2019 2500hd payload. Its going to leave you with pretty much room for you an maybe a passenger on a 2018-2019 3500hd, and then probably a smidge more for a 2020 3500hd.

In my mind, its kind of a cart before the horse scenario. If you pick a horse but your cart ends up being more than thought of, you might not have enough horse.

Also a quick note, the 2020 2500HD payloads and GVWR are really close to the 2018-2019 3500hd SRW so you could split either way for those. Also, I'll try tomorrow to get some pictures of the trailering stickers on the 2020 trucks so you have some idea on the payloads for these new trucks. If we have any used diesels I'll check those too for any payload #s.

MTU Alum · April 9, 2020

1 hour ago, fsunole33 said:

Wow- first and foremost, thank you very much for taking the time to share your knowledge and expertise. In regards to the tire size, this makes total sense. In my simple mind, could you simply upgrade a "cheaper" MSRP 2020 Silverado 2500HD Diesel with 17" wheel size to the 18/20 inch wheels? The difference in price I am seeing here locally (Phoenix, AZ) is about 4-5k. Apologies if this is a silly question but nonetheless I am curious.

I have a custom tiny home builder building the frame/shell and my wife and I are planning to complete the interior of the tiny home ourselves. I will have to reach out to the builder to ask for specifics regarding the trailer, as this is something that he is taking care of. Once I receive that information I will absolutely share here.

I am highly considering the 3500 SRW over the 2500, but if that were the case I am thinking I would maybe like to save a few dollars and look for a 2015-2019 slightly used model. Assuming I went with the fifth wheel towing method, would say a 2015 3500HD Diesel 4x4 work okay I wonder?

The tire change would technically make the truck more capable. The mass and towing numbers listed on your truck wouldn't change.

The 2017 to 2019 3500s should work fine for you as well. I don't think there is much difference in suspension on the 2015 and 2016 trucks as well.

If you choose a 3500, I would try to ballast the tongue or pin load so the overloads springs are in contact. The loading of the overloads increases lateral stiffness of rear suspension and decreases the amount of sway you may experience.

#iworkforGM

fsunole33 · April 10, 2020

4 hours ago, newdude said:

Honestly its really going to depend on the trailer setup. If you have confirmed for sure a conventional or 5th wheel, the exact or close to exact weight of the trailer and the tongue weight of the trailer. The GVWR of your house trailer would be a good starting point.

If the trailer has a gross of 15,000lbs for example, and lets say you go conventional hitch with it, GM recommends 10-15% of trailer weight to be tongue weight. So if that trailer loaded with gear, furniture, etc. comes in at exactly GVWR, then you should be between 1500-2250lbs tongue weight. It would leave some payload wiggle on a 2018-2019 3500hd, a tiny bit more on a 2020 2500hd, and plenty of room on a 2020 3500hd.

If you went gooseneck, GM says 15-25% of trailer weight should be tongue weight. Lets split it at 20% so of 15,000lbs total trailer weight, 3,000lbs would be on the 5th wheel hitch. That is right off the bat well over a 2018-2019 2500hd payload. Its going to leave you with pretty much room for you an maybe a passenger on a 2018-2019 3500hd, and then probably a smidge more for a 2020 3500hd.

In my mind, its kind of a cart before the horse scenario. If you pick a horse but your cart ends up being more than thought of, you might not have enough horse.

Also a quick note, the 2020 2500HD payloads and GVWR are really close to the 2018-2019 3500hd SRW so you could split either way for those. Also, I'll try tomorrow to get some pictures of the trailering stickers on the 2020 trucks so you have some idea on the payloads for these new trucks. If we have any used diesels I'll check those too for any payload #s.

Great info, thank you again. We really want to stick with conventional, but we haven't quite made the final decision just yet. It is crazy to me the lack of information/knowledge out there in the "tiny house" community. Sure there are a few vlogs and youtube videos of people who built homes, etc. but very few forums (if any) where you can discuss topics such as how heavy your home is and what vehicle you use to tow. I am leaning towards purchasing a capable 2020 2500HD and utilizing conventional towing, assuming the trailer and tongue weight check out.

I am absolutely taking your advice of cart before the horse, we are going to build the home first (conventional or fifth wheel TBD) and then purchase the correct truck. I am just trying to put together a plan of action ahead of time. One thing we have decided is we are actually using steel studs/frame construction, which should save us 2-3k pounds of weight compared to wood framing. So my hope is that the house is 12-13k pounds overall versus the 15k I originally stated, but nonetheless I am planning for the heaviest at this time.

fsunole33 · April 10, 2020

3 hours ago, MTU Alum said:

The tire change would technically make the truck more capable. The mass and towing numbers listed on your truck wouldn't change.

The 2017 to 2019 3500s should work fine for you as well. I don't think there is much difference in suspension on the 2015 and 2016 trucks as well.

If you choose a 3500, I would try to ballast the tongue or pin load so the overloads springs are in contact. The loading of the overloads increases lateral stiffness of rear suspension and decreases the amount of sway you may experience.

#iworkforGM

Understood and I appreciate the advice. My goal is to build the home first, then weigh it upon completion. At that point, I am hoping to utilize this info to make the right vehicle purchase...I just don't want to be stuck with the wrong set-up!

hotairgypsy · April 14, 2020

well if your looking for a 2015 3500HD that is in great shape send me a note...i live in Albuquerque so not far from you at all...I just bought myself a 2020 so my 2015 is just sitting around waiting for a new home

XY74 · April 15, 2020

I know little about tiny houses. Is there some consideration for how the weight is distributed, top heavy, general towing dynamics? You don't want to build something that is difficult to tow. Proper tongue weight is always important.

FYI, my 2020 high country 2500 has a payload just a smidge over 3000 lbs.