Coronavirus

[KARNUT]

Really last time. Not financial Armageddon, that affects lots more.


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I will add. Two weeks ago my father passed. He had cancer. He went out on his terms. He had the option for treatments to prolong his life. At 83 he didn’t want the indignity of the process. Not withstanding the cost. He was a take no prisoners type of person. He didn’t want to hear anything about we’ll take you as it comes. He was ready to call it a day. He still had a couple of days of being taken care of. He hated it. He saw the beginning of this bug. He said this doesn’t look like my country anymore. Looks like a good time to get off. 2 weeks later I can see him screaming at the TV.


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[Grumpy Bear]

3 hours ago, Texas Daddy said:

Its impossible for China not to have had hundreds of millions infected - millions were bolting wuhan weeks before the shut down jan 23. This has not just begun. Testing just began, but the virus has been around us for months now infecting almost everyone. You will be told this later.
 

I'll give you China as I agree testing started well after. 

Italy 80,589 confirmed. 8,215 dead. MR 10.12%

60,550,075 people only 0.13% of the population affected. and because they closed shop they are holding steady at about 6K new cases a day and yet the MR is not declining. They've been testing from the get. 

 

Imagine if Italy kept it open as during 1918 where 2/3 of the earths population caught it? 4 million dead!

 

You do know that this Covid-19 test can not detect the virus until it is symptomatic right?

 

That gal Doctor that stands with Trump a week or so ago said that if the Stay at Home is successful people will draw the conclusion it was nothing worse that the flu. Well they are already doing it. 

 

Data is from Johns Hopkins I have no special sight, just data. Not the news.

 

But it seems we have Prophet's among us. 

 

[TXGREEK]

I'll give you China as I agree testing started well after. 
Italy 80,589 confirmed. 8,215 dead. MR 10.12%
60,550,075 people only 0.13% of the population affected. and because they closed shop they are holding steady at about 6K new cases a day and yet the MR is not declining. They've been testing from the get. 
 
Imagine if Italy kept it open as during 1918 where 2/3 of the earths population caught it? 4 million dead!
 
You do know that this Covid-19 test can not detect the virus until it is symptomatic right?
 
That gal Doctor that stands with Trump a week or so ago said that if the Stay at Home is successful people will draw the conclusion it was nothing worse that the flu. Well they are already doing it. 
 

Data is from Johns Hopkins I have no special sight, just data. Not the news.

 

But it seems we have Prophet's among us. 

 

I’ll stick to “Biological Warfare” as now China has no more protesters pestering its government, something else has taken the Spotlight. It’s scary to think of just how dangerous communist dictatorships have become, care nothing for their people especially globally.


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[KARNUT]

I'll give you China as I agree testing started well after. 
Italy 80,589 confirmed. 8,215 dead. MR 10.12%
60,550,075 people only 0.13% of the population affected. and because they closed shop they are holding steady at about 6K new cases a day and yet the MR is not declining. They've been testing from the get. 
 
Imagine if Italy kept it open as during 1918 where 2/3 of the earths population caught it? 4 million dead!
 
You do know that this Covid-19 test can not detect the virus until it is symptomatic right?
 
That gal Doctor that stands with Trump a week or so ago said that if the Stay at Home is successful people will draw the conclusion it was nothing worse that the flu. Well they are already doing it. 
 

Data is from Johns Hopkins I have no special sight, just data. Not the news.

 

But it seems we have Prophet's among us. 

 

She and the other doctor with them last night were pretty excited. There’s a blood test coming shortly. It will show past, during affected instantly. They are coming around to the realization there’s probably more walking around that had it. And the ratio is going to drop dramatically. They also are with Trump understanding the need to get back to work. They will have a plan for that. People are going have to do their part. You really need to watch the press conference. Along with others to get a complete picture.


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[mookdoc6]

1 hour ago, Daverado said:

 

It's not a black and white situation, right?  Supermarkets are still open for business right now.  Essential services are still in business even in the areas with shelter-in-place orders, like where I live currently.  The country is not "closed" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

So yes, it's a very good idea for as many people as possible to stay home for another month, minimum.  Because there are plenty of us who cannot, for one reason or another.  As good Americans, we ought to make sacrifices for our less fortunate brethren.  Yes, I understand this is not the great America it used to be when we used to make such sacrifices for each other.  Maybe one day we'll be so great again.

The maybe one day America will be great again has been said by liberals for the last 50yrs!  Look we're slipping everyday, every year Show me a Excellent, Profitable Liberal RUN CITY?  Keep playing that game.  Essential services are still open nonsense!  Fact:  I went to Regional/National Mexican chain last night for pickup....Asked him what is the procedure now and how is it going?  6:30PM he has made couple hundred dollars....Normally, THOUSANDS 6 people working etc.

 

SO you think about that really,really hard I mean the country "Closed" by any stretch of the imagination.  This scenario is playing out in every facet of life/business across AMERIACA....Guess what?  It's not sustainable and we will have no choice but to ramp up things After EASTER.  Yes, hot zones will be clamped down and rightfully so.....But we will be majority back up in running or your ARSE and mine is screwed and we ain't gonna be looking so great!

[mookdoc6]

Grumps,

 

MR is misleading too?  Just as the Positive numbers in Italy.  Look at N.Y. MR      Look at Louisiana MR  Look at Italy MR  Germany tests subjects completely different than Italy or the USA?  South Korea Tests subjects radically different too?  It will take 6 months to compile the DATA and it's a hard pile of DATA with skews, and many unknowns.  Remember that what is compiled as positive equates to 5-10X of subjects who have/had and never will be tested.  Don't worry your Vaccine when it comes available and it will.  COVID-19 it's just a simple non-mutating Corona Virus from EARTH not outer space will be effective enough to hijack cells so mutating is not needed for it much.  2yrs from now it's just going to be another box on diagnostic list to check off instead of Flu-A, Flu-B simply Covid-19 and have your primary care physician can explain to you to stay away from people and not go to work for 5 days?   OHHHH...5 days?  The antiviral drugs your DR. will give will bring that transmittable/contagious aspect down to a more manageable time frame so yeah...you get sick after day or two go to doctor usually get your COVID-19 PACKAGE of Pills come back to work after 5 days.  

 

Thanks for Playing! 

[Grumpy Bear]

12 minutes ago, mookdoc6 said:

Grumps,

 

MR is misleading too?  Just as the Positive numbers in Italy.  Look at N.Y. MR      Look at Louisiana MR  Look at Italy MR  Germany tests subjects completely different than Italy or the USA?  South Korea Tests subjects radically different too?  It will take 6 months to compile the DATA and it's a hard pile of DATA with skews, and many unknowns.  Remember that what is compiled as positive equates to 5-10X of subjects who have/had and never will be tested.  Don't worry your Vaccine when it comes available and it will.  COVID-19 it's just a simple non-mutating Corona Virus from EARTH not outer space will be effective enough to hijack cells so mutating is not needed for it much.  2yrs from now it's just going to be another box on diagnostic list to check off instead of Flu-A, Flu-B simply Covid-19 and have your primary care physician can explain to you to stay away from people and not go to work for 5 days?   OHHHH...5 days?  The antiviral drugs your DR. will give will bring that transmittable/contagious aspect down to a more manageable time frame so yeah...you get sick after day or two go to doctor usually get your COVID-19 PACKAGE of Pills come back to work after 5 days.  

 

Thanks for Playing! 

I hear what your saying and agree to a point. Stat's are samples. Samples represent, statistically, populations. I have a dog shelter with three boxes of puppies. All three boxes have six pups each. First box has two white, two brown and two black. Second box is all black and last box is five brindle and a yellow pup. As a shelter a sampling of pups from all three boxes would give a much different picture than a sampling from any one box. To that end I agree. What I disagree on is that any sampling of any one box (USA) paints a picture of the shelters (World) inventory of puppies. That is what this tread is trying to do. IMHO of course. 

 

Let's say I have a country with 100 people and  100 confirmed cases with 3 deaths. I could say the MR is 3% but I can only say that IF ALL cases have reach a final resolution. That is the other 97 have totally recovered. If the other 97 are still in limbo they may recover and prove the 3% MR. They may also die and prove that stat wrong. 100% MR. 

 

Stat's like these can only be viewed in the rearview mirror with 100% accuracy. 

 

97,028 confirmed cases in the USA (just looked). 1475 deaths. BUT ONLY 816 have recovered. We still have 94,737 people whose fate we do not yet know! They could live, they could die but what they are not is proof of anything substantive.

 

Yes I tossed this into a hornets nest and did just as I say aught not be done. It did as I thought. It lead to this post. Neither side is wide awake.

 

NO ONE can say the MR is 1.5% based on deaths / conformations. You still have 94,737 undecided data points and it is fluid. As soon as you resolve a few thousands more data point enter the population. What we do know is that is KILLS people and at a high enough number to cause alarm. 

 

Ya' all are worried about MONEY instead of LIFE. Forgotten are the lessons of WW I / WW II. Shattered economies survive anything IF there are people around to rebuild it. Not so much the other way around. Extinction events have no recovery. 

 

We can look back now at 1918 and say what happened. In the middle of that fight no one knew anything. 

 

7.8 Billion people need food. Need water, Need medical attention. These things ARE NEEDS. Cars rolling out of Detroit or a lawn care service are not.

 

Funny how in the middle of this everyone's work becomes indispensable.

Same type of people that run back into a burning building to grab their valuables.   

 

 

 

 

[KARNUT]

I hear what your saying and agree to a point. Stat's are samples. Samples represent, statistically, populations. I have a dog shelter with three boxes of puppies. All three boxes have six pups each. First box has two white, two brown and two black. Second box is all black and last box is five brindle and a yellow pup. As a shelter a sampling of pups from all three boxes would give a much different picture than a sampling from any one box. To that end I agree. What I disagree on is that any sampling of any one box (USA) paints a picture of the shelters (World) inventory of puppies. That is what this tread is trying to do. IMHO of course. 
 
Let's say I have a country with 100 people and  100 confirmed cases with 3 deaths. I could say the MR is 3% but I can only say that IF ALL cases have reach a final resolution. That is the other 97 have totally recovered. If the other 97 are still in limbo they may recover and prove the 3% MR. They may also die and prove that stat wrong. 100% MR. 
 
Stat's like these can only be viewed in the rearview mirror with 100% accuracy. 
 
97,028 confirmed cases in the USA (just looked). 1475 deaths. BUT ONLY 816 have recovered. We still have 94,737 people whose fate we do not yet know! They could live, they could die but what they are not is proof of anything substantive.
 
Yes I tossed this into a hornets nest and did just as I say aught not be done. It did as I thought. It lead to this post. Neither side is wide awake.
 
NO ONE can say the MR is 1.5% based on deaths / conformations. You still have 94,737 undecided data points and it is fluid. As soon as you resolve a few thousands more data point enter the population. What we do know is that is KILLS people and at a high enough number to cause alarm. 
 
Ya' all are worried about MONEY instead of LIFE. Forgotten are the lessons of WW I / WW II. Shattered economies survive anything IF there are people around to rebuild it. Not so much the other way around. Extinction events have no recovery. 
 
We can look back now at 1918 and say what happened. In the middle of that fight no one knew anything. 
 
7.8 Billion people need food. Need water, Need medical attention. These things ARE NEEDS. Cars rolling out of Detroit or a lawn care service are not.
 

Funny how in the middle of this everyone's work becomes indispensable.

Same type of people that run back into a burning building to grab their valuables.   

 
 
 
 

So that begs these question. How long do we shut down? What’s the acceptable unemployment number? How about inflation? We can print money, but. What is the acceptable death ratio? Do we start working with rolling shut downs if, when needed. Is the flu ratio a good number? H1-N1 numbers, we didn’t shut down for those. We’re rolling about 1.4 deaths now. I’m sure China would be glad to step in and help us out. Buy our depressed property and businesses for pennies on the dollar. While we sit this out another what say 3-6 months? Curious minds want to know.


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[Grumpy Bear]

9 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

So that begs these question. How long do we shut down? What’s the acceptable unemployment number? How about inflation? We can print money, but. What is the acceptable death ratio? Do we start working with rolling shut downs if, when needed. Is the flu ratio a good number? H1-N1 numbers, we didn’t shut down for those. We’re rolling about 1.4 deaths now. I’m sure China would be glad to step in and help us out. Buy our depressed property and businesses for pennies on the dollar. While we sit this out another what say 3-6 months? Curious minds want to know.
 

ZERO

 

What's that saying? 

 

"Everyone want's to go to heaven...no one want's to die.

 

Unavoidable? Perhaps not, but never acceptable.

 

I am not a kid of the goat to be sacrificed on the alter of commerce.

 

When you even hint that there is a person whose life does not matter .....

 

 

 

 

 

[KARNUT]

ZERO

 

What's that saying? 

 

"Everyone want's to go to heaven...no one want's to die.

 

Unavoidable? Perhaps not, but never acceptable.

 

I am not a kid of the goat to be sacrificed on the alter of commerce.

 

When you even hint that there is a person whose life does not matter .....

 

 

 

 

 

WOW. Call me an idiot. Enjoy the soup line. If there is one.


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[jpinoy]

 

 

https://www.dispatch.com/opinion/20200324/column-emergency-room-physician-writes-from-covid-19-front-lines

 

[diyer2]

We just went to our closest big town for some groceries that we can't get at our small town local market.

Also to take care of some business that can't wait.

Town of about 20 k people.

Yes there are closed businesses. 

Curb side food takeout at some restaurants.

Definitely less people around.

 

Our local town of about 1200 people is a ghost town. This from a friend that lives in town. You can get gas, groceries and the hardware is open. The grocery store gets 1 delivery a week to restock the shelves.

Everything else is closed.

Staying home or out of circulation will help stop the spread, I agree.

But getting back to work on some degree is a must IMO.

To long without our local economy working will be bad news.

We have all the problems of a big town but on a smaller scale.

Poverty, drugs etc.

 

 

 

[KARNUT]

After being on here for 6 years of mostly fun threads of endless oil threads, exhaust threads, with the same responses over and over again. We finally get one that’s meaningful. I was looking forward to reasonable back and forth with ideas on how we feel about the world in general. As usual some people who feel their way is rejected or challenged resort to insults and name calling. Usually lefties. Name calling behind the screen, brave. So you all have fun. Not fun for me anymore. I’m retired, I’m only interested in fun. I’m out of here.


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[j-ten-ner]

 

Someone tell her that's not 6 feet!

 

 

Joke aside...I still think that the country should shut everything down. I mean REALLY non essential work.

The Canadian government is providing $82 Billion as an aid package.

Part of it is that people in self isolation can get EI up to $2,000/month for up to four months. That's $8,000 in total.

 

As far as I know, Canada has 18.5 Million employed people.

If you pay each one of them $4,000 for one month of staying home it would add up to $74 Billion.

$8 Billion less than the governments "dragging-it-out-aid".

Give all the REAL essential workers the same amount additional to their income. Danger pay if you will.. Doctors, nurses, truckers, grocery personnel etc.

 

The "curve" would be flattened dramatically. Existing infected people have already infected their families. But they won't spread it around as much as is it the case now.

One of our employees is in self isolation. He needs to work to provide for his family.

If he turns out to be ok after two weeks, he's going right back into the pool.

How stupid is that?

 

Construction is only essential for the developers and the politicians who rake in the bribes.

I am working in construction. I keep working because we have contracts. We can't lose those contracts.

Technically, my government is forcing me to expose myself and add to the dilemma.

 

so long

j-ten-ner

Edited March 27, 2020 by j-ten-ner

[riverbanks]

It's just talk,karnut,you stirred the pot,now you can't stand the heat?