Coronavirus

OnTheReel · July 14, 2020

This post by John Hayward is a worthwhile read even though it’s arguably too late.

“The debate over coronavirus policy has drifted very far from the original understanding that we needed extreme measures to prevent hospitals from being overloaded, causing patients to die from a lack of urgently needed medical care.

The coronavirus debate offers one of the fastest examples of an Overton window moving that we've ever seen. If you say today what everyone in authority said about the virus and lockdowns in March, you're now a witless anti-lockdown extremist who wants people to die.

The crucial data points about hospitalizations and deaths have been lost in a surging ocean of static about positive test rates. Absolutely no one would ever have agreed to the lockdowns if told they couldn't be lifted until no one was testing positive any more.

Likewise, no one would have agreed if told this miserable lockdown or semi-lockdown culture would last until a vaccine was discovered - something that might not ever actually happen. People would have considered that argument irrational and unworkable in March or April.

But as the old, biologically dubious but metaphorically perfect adage has it, you can boil a frog by turning up the heat a few degrees at a time. You move that Overton window by changing facts on the ground quickly and then dragging public perception along in their wake.

Opinion tends to swirl around enforced reality, like iron shavings dancing around strong magnets. Ironically, the movement leftward exploits the fundamentally conservative nature of the populace: they grow accustomed to the New Normal very quickly.

The speed at which the New Normal can be accepted, and the window of possibility shifted accordingly, has never been demonstrated as profoundly as with the coronavirus. The atmosphere of panic and the underlying fault lines of unrest in our society threw it into fast forward.

Imagine telling parents in March that their children might not be allowed to go back to school in September. They would have rebelled from coast to coast. But now that's a "mainstream" position that is under serious debate.

There are already clusters of opinion forming to protect the New Normal of lockdowns, including people who really LIKE the lockdown lifestyle but don't want to admit it, so they mask their true opinion with a form of political-religious fanaticism. Guilt juices their fervor.

That same sense of inherent conservatism, that feeling of an opinion window shifting permanently, causes the arguments of yesterday to be forgotten with remarkable speed and thoroughness despite our Information Age resources.

It's hard for anyone to remember clearly what was being said only a few months ago - the doomsday projections, the promises about "15 days to flatten the curve," what various parties were saying about masks, etc. The past is forgotten even though it's not even half a year old.

Consider the hyper-speed example of the coronavirus, and how quickly the mixture of panic and power changed everything in a matter of weeks, creating a new America so distant from the old that remembering last year has become incredibly difficult for most of the public.”

Thejet07 · July 14, 2020

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-hospitals-confirm-mistakes-in-floridas-covid-19-report

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Donstar · July 14, 2020

19 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I hear and read this a war.

An unnecessary war for the most part, imo. Disputes over basic precautions like social distancing and wearing a mask should not be occurring anywhere. Leaders encouraging activities that contradict common sense and medically supported practices can't be ignored as a cause for conflict. The learning curve throughout the world over the past few months has been huge. There is enough information to mandate safe and effective practices without "closing down" everything. I like to believe that for the most part individuals are practicing safe behaviors and this is why those who disregard the new normal make the 6 0'clock news!

Grumpy Bear · July 14, 2020

32 minutes ago, Donstar said:

An unnecessary war for the most part, imo. Disputes over basic precautions like social distancing and wearing a mask should not be occurring anywhere. Leaders encouraging activities that contradict common sense and medically supported practices can't be ignored as a cause for conflict. The learning curve throughout the world over the past few months has been huge. There is enough information to mandate safe and effective practices without "closing down" everything. I like to believe that for the most part individuals are practicing safe behaviors and this is why those who disregard the new normal make the 6 0'clock news!

The 6 O'Clock news is the reason some areas close down. Thousands of people doing what they ought not. They take the choice out of the hands of those that lead to protect those that do as they ought.

OnTheReel · July 14, 2020

Well, there’s one of the boiling frogs now.

Today masks are a “new normal” when 3 months ago they weren’t necessary. The science behind masks hasn’t changed since then, but the “guidance” has.

Wonder what will be the “new normal” 3 months from now? Because if you told me a few months ago that everyone over 3 years old needs to wear a mask, even outdoors, in the city of Milwaukee...I probably wouldn’t have believed it.

But here we are. And there’s no end game and no limit to any of this. We continue to move the goal posts. They throw us a bone saying we can open up, but now we need masks and limited capacities. Most are still happy to comply and get a sliver of their normal life back, rather than question the need for any of this.

With that attitude, this will go on for years, and what’s worse, the same process will be repeated for every other new virus that comes along because the standard is set. No infections and no deaths are acceptable.

Hope everyone is ready to sign half their life away to homeschooling, masks and lockdowns.

Grumpy Bear · July 14, 2020

California is one of those states that was declaring 'herd immunity'. The OP of this thread defended that position repeatedly, following pod cast. It could never happen in Texas like it did in NYC. How's that working out? Some 30 something goes to a Covid party and dies claiming it a hoax? That's how it's working out.

The Zip · July 14, 2020

3 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

California is one of those states that was declaring 'herd immunity'. The OP of this thread defended that position repeatedly, following pod cast.

I never heard any reported instances in news throughout the state that mentioned this. California never declared herd immunity, it's the people not living in the state that did. Because of no herd immunity, the governor just locked down 80% of the state again.

Save a life while saving a business if you can. Right or wrong, California is choosing today to save a life. The other states can standby, watch, and wait on the results.

Edited July 14, 2020 by The Zip

The Zip · July 14, 2020

On 7/13/2020 at 9:42 AM, Thejet07 said:

In my county of 100k, 61 allegedly died from this virus. So no school because of that? Get out of here.

I'm going to take it as you didn't research this correctly. My county is 6 times larger and we have half the deaths of your county.

But if your numbers are correct, not only should you guys be looking at canceling school, you need to be looking at cancelling Christmas too.

Thejet07 · July 14, 2020

How dare you threaten my Xmas. Lol. The vast majority of these deaths were from nursing homes. As of lately there’s been days without positives and those deaths came more towards the beginnings the pandemic.

I love that article about the 30 yr old and that heart tugging quote. Almost as much as the nbc doctor who did/didn’t have covid. There is a virus, it’s not a hoax. The hoax is how the media and gov controlling the selective masses. It all goes back to trump.

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Grumpy Bear · July 14, 2020

1 hour ago, The Zip said:

I never heard any reported instances in news throughout the state that mentioned this. California never declared herd immunity, it's the people not living in the state that did. Because of no herd immunity, the governor just locked down 80% of the state again.

Save a life or save a business, right or wrong California is going with save a life. The other states can standby, watch, and wait on the results.

Yep.....Pod casters.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Grumpy Bear

Thejet07 · July 14, 2020

The numbers in relation to deaths just can’t be trusted. We keep comparing this virus to the flu and it’s death rates. However, there is a big difference in the death certificate. If said patient had covid and died, it was labeled covid on death certificate. Whereas, this is not always true with the flu. Many times they’ll list other underlying conditions thus skewing numbers. The cdc makes estimates on death but not on covid. If you had covid it’s counted. If they think you had covid but weren’t tested, counted. This 30 yr old who died, who knows if he had underlying conditions. All we know is what person claims he said. Because that’s what the media tells us. Not when the party was, this guys health prior, etc

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The Zip · July 14, 2020

1 hour ago, Thejet07 said:

How dare you threaten my Xmas. Lol. The vast majority of these deaths were from nursing homes. As of lately there’s been days without positives and those deaths came more towards the beginnings the pandemic

You being from NY, nursing homes, high death rate in your county. I regress, your numbers are probably correct. But that's where I'll stop the regression, I like everything else NY did in this pandemic.

The Zip · July 14, 2020

57 minutes ago, Thejet07 said:

The numbers in relation to deaths just can’t be trusted. We keep comparing this virus to the flu and it’s death rates. However, there is a big difference in the death certificate. If said patient had covid and died, it was labeled covid on death certificate. Whereas, this is not always true with the flu. Many times they’ll list other underlying conditions thus skewing numbers. The cdc makes estimates on death but not on covid. If you had covid it’s counted. If they think you had covid but weren’t tested, counted. This 30 yr old who died, who knows if he had underlying conditions. All we know is what person claims he said. Because that’s what the media tells us. Not when the party was, this guys health prior, etc

If you have the flu or an underlying condition that doesn't require hospitalization, then you catch the virus requiring hospitalization and die in the hospital, is it fair to say if it wasn't for the virus you would not have died? In this instance, I understand labeling it a 60/40 covid death versus underlying conditions.

KARNUT · July 14, 2020

An unnecessary war for the most part, imo. Disputes over basic precautions like social distancing and wearing a mask should not be occurring anywhere. Leaders encouraging activities that contradict common sense and medically supported practices can't be ignored as a cause for conflict. The learning curve throughout the world over the past few months has been huge. There is enough information to mandate safe and effective practices without "closing down" everything. I like to believe that for the most part individuals are practicing safe behaviors and this is why those who disregard the new normal make the 6 0'clock news!

It’s hard to believe any so called leaders when they say protesting is safe, then they close the beach. Or kids can’t pass it on then say close the schools. California never really opened up but cases are rising there. I’m seeing testing here in Texas in most every store parking lot. Positive results as well as testing is up. Wonder why. Some of the (smart) critics of opening seem to think we don’t need herd immunity. Want to hide again. Then will be amazed when we open and people get it. We need to pause just enough to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. Some people just can’t face the harsh reality of life.

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mikemcclain8 · July 14, 2020

So here is our latest mask requirement exemptions as the ordinance just passed yesterday. I added the bold to the most ridiculous ones. So, apparently the virus takes a break when you're swimming or when you need that perfect wedding picture!

Other exemptions include:

While consuming food and drink
While at a swimming pool
While obtaining a service involving the face or nose for which the temporary removal of the face covering is necessary to perform the service
While playing a sport, exercising or using exercising equipment while exerting themselves
While working in settings which might increase the risk of heat-related illnesses
While outdoors and maintaining a 6-foot distance from others or while outdoors and are closer than 6 feet to solely members of their own household
While speaking, addressing an audience or performing and are able to maintain a 6-foot distance from others
While serving as a member of a wedding party during the wedding ceremony and/or taking wedding photos.