Coronavirus

[swathdiver]

11 hours ago, Ithan Henry said:

It's true that the Covid-19 virus is smaller than 0.30 microns. However, the virus doesn't travel by itself. It needs to attach to something, which happens to be water droplets from coughing and sneezing. Those water droplets are far larger than 0.30 microns, so the masks are effective. 

 

I still don't see the issue with wearing a mask. I see people arguing that it infringes on their freedoms. So I'm to understand that a person's freedom to not be inconvenienced by a mask supercedes the health of another person?

 

We have over 130k+ deaths from Covid-19. How many do we have from wearing masks? 

 

Top 3 nation's in Covid-19 deaths also happen to be the 3 nation's whose citizens are against masks. Coincidence? 

I reject your premises.  There have been no studies showing that the wearing of masks prevents the spread.  Wearing a mask while walking or working reduces a person's oxygen levels to below OSHA standards.  

 

23 minutes ago, Donstar said:

...anyone who is able would be so selfish to be bare faced in public.  ...now I feel embarrassed when not wearing a mask in public.  

That's called virtue signalling.  Your premise is false as well.  You have no idea why someone is not wearing a mask.  If you were to ask me, I'd tell you that it is suffocating; I have a hard enough time walking and breathing in a normal setting.  Second, I don't have the virus.  If I did, I'd probably be dead as I have several "co-morbidities" and my immune system is exceptionally weak; "immuno-compromised".  (learned some new buzzwords in all this)

 

People should not be forced to do something to appease the feelings of another.  

 

Regardless of all the dangers to my health from masks, I reject all forms of Statism, from group-think to virtue signalling and wokeness as history shows that they lead to tyranny and not liberty.

 

If one is willing to give up some of their liberty for security then they do not deserve liberty.

[Donstar]

20 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

If one is willing to give up some of their liberty for security then they do not deserve liberty.

I'm sorry to hear about your health issues and I appreciate there are people unable to wear a mask.  I will continue to wear a mask to protect your liberty.  I am very thankful that others are doing the same for me in return.

[diyer2]

I have been ignoring this thread. This thread is a good example of why very few issues get resolved in our world today IMO. Getting people to agree on a solution for said problem is next to impossible.

IMO

Masks, a simple effort that does no harm.

Masks should have been mandatory from the beginning. Enforced with fines for non compliance. You want to help our economy, write tickets. 

If you have a problem wearing a mask, stay home or pay a fine.

 

All the talk from media, docs, experts, politicians etc. has been short on results. Vietnam excelled at controlling the virus. Masks were mandatory. Read about it. https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2020/06/29/na062920-vietnams-success-in-containing-covid19-offers-roadmap-for-other-developing-countries  More info with a search.

 

To many countries failed miserably with their efforts on controlling this.

 

[Thejet07]

How could anyone possibly believe numbers when every country has lied about them. China lied about when, how. The US lied about how many really have it and the vague covid death certificates. Iran lied about their numbers. Fake videos of Italy hospitals on tv. The flip flop of what precautions to take between all the experts. The history of dr. Fauci. Barely see dr. Birx anymore. And so on. It’s very hard to see what facts are true or not. The one thing I do know is our economy is suffering, out mental health is extremely suffering, I feel all these riots are indirectly happening because of this. All to save less than 1/3rd of 1 percent of the population. That’s insane. And please don’t post another CNN article.


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[Grumpy Bear]

10 hours ago, Thejet07 said:

You do realize your whole argument can be reversed. Example: shutting down is saying to your neighbor I don’t care if you have kids to feed, my life is more important than feeding your family. So what you can’t work. I’m retired. And what was that rant about zoos? I think grandpa needs to take his medicine.


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Donstar had no trouble understanding my post. Nailed it in fact. Here, have a look....(next quote)

 

Took my kids to the zoo when they were little and they loved the big cats. Me too! A thick glass was between us and them. I took advantage of that getting real close to a Jaguar who replied with a sharp rap on the glass at my face. I was very happy that that boundary (law, restriction) was in place. Thus the zoo reference. Was it really that hard to understand?

 

Riddle me this....how would I have feed my children if that restriction were not in place? Dead, sick and bedridden people earn no living. (nor those killed by .........) 

 

1 hour ago, Donstar said:

I believe the  "argument" was in support of wearing masks.  This is such an effortless step and it is unconscionable why anyone who is able would be so selfish to be bare faced in public.  Your example is part of the much larger issue.  We all agree that no one should go hungry and focus should be on ensuring this doesn't happen.  Minimizing the spread of Covid 19 requires doing things differently.  Keeping our citizens with the necessities of life does not mean letting the pandemic do its thing while life carries on as before.    A mask is a simple, effective step an individual can take with no negative outcomes.  The big issues will be insurmountable if we feel we have to protest such simple, basic precautions as  wearing a mask. As an aside, I understand the hesitation/embarrassment/self-consciousness/ awkwardness some may feel when initially adding a mask to their good looks.   I felt strange at first but now I feel embarrassed when not wearing a mask in public.  

Thank you Don.... Ears of discernment hear better than those of contempt. 

1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

I reject your premises.  There have been no studies showing that the wearing of masks prevents the spread.  Wearing a mask while walking or working reduces a person's oxygen levels to below OSHA standards.  

 

If one is willing to give up some of their liberty for security then they do not deserve liberty.

I don't often disagree with you but in this first point I must. Doctors were masks up to 12 hours during complex surgeries. I certainly think oxygen would be a good thing for such a person and subject to OSHA as well. It is no more difficult to breath through a mask then 'On demand' breathing in a fireman's Scott Air Pack. These boys work at levels that hinder people breathing on that device. Something I know a great deal about being on the Refinery Fire Department and spending a few shifts in one. Feels odd in the beginning but you do get use to it. Or the number of occupations that wear masks routinely. Painters, remediation work for lead and asbestos. Hazmat? 

 

Now will on hinder breathing of a COPD patient? I expect so but they must then use their best judgement. 

 

On liberty: defined

 

1. the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.

    
2. 2.

   the power or scope to act as one pleases.

    

   The framers had the first definition in mind, This thread has the second in mind. When everyone does as "one pleases' no one is safe from anything. If we adopt definition 2.2, as your reply suggest, then there is no law. Chaos ensues. A mask is no more repressive than the law against murder. 

    

   1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

   People should not be forced to do something to appease the feelings of another. 

   That is a funny thing to say. Very out of character for a man of Christian faith. (Romans 15:3) Or perhaps I misunderstood you? Feel free to correct me IF I error.  

    

   56 minutes ago, Donstar said:

   I will continue to wear a mask to protect your liberty.  I am very thankful that others are doing the same for me in return.

   Thank you sir a practical application of 1 John 4:20

    

   I am talking to those I replied to. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Grumpy Bear

[Grumpy Bear]

1 minute ago, Thejet07 said:

How could anyone possibly believe numbers when every country has lied about them. China lied about when, how. The US lied about how many really have it and the vague covid death certificates. Iran lied about their numbers. Fake videos of Italy hospitals on tv. The flip flop of what precautions to take between all the experts. The history of dr. Fauci. Barely see dr. Birx anymore. And so on. It’s very hard to see what facts are true or not. The one thing I do know is our economy is suffering, out mental health is extremely suffering, I feel all these riots are indirectly happening because of this. All to save less than 1/3rd of 1 percent of the population. That’s insane. And please don’t post another CNN article.


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One thing I do know. NO ONE knows from day to day IF they are a spreader. The best they can know is "I don't feel sick". Example? Typhoid Mary. 

 

You are correct. The Information in some cases has been corrupted which hinders belief. No doubt about it. Does that mean none of it is true? Somewhere between 'Famous Potatoes" and "Live Free or Die" the truth lies. (George Carlin)

 

The lion might be in the cave....he might not. He may be hungry....he may be sated. Are you going to enter the cave? Same principle. 

 

 

[Thejet07]

So if you’re dead, sick, or bed ridden you can’t provide? And that’s that? I understood your zoo analogy. I just thought it was not a good one. And in most, not some, cases numbers have been fudged.

 

In my county of 100k, 61 allegedly died from this virus. So no school because of that? Get out of here. Anyway, you’re always correct. Just ask yourself.

 

 

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[Grumpy Bear]

41 minutes ago, Thejet07 said:

So if you’re dead, sick, or bed ridden you can’t provide? And that’s that? I understood your zoo analogy. I just thought it was not a good one. And in most, not some, cases numbers have been fudged.

 

In my county of 100k, 61 allegedly died from this virus. So no school because of that? Get out of here. Anyway, you’re always correct. Just ask yourself.

 

 

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I ask myself about such things daily. I conclude that I'm as wrong as the next fellow when I have nothing to offer but my opinion. That is why I try very hard to not rely on my own understanding of things in matters of morality and justice. As everyone is as fallible as the next guy there isn't a human alive that can make a superior claim to rightness/correctness on such matters.

 

Proverbs 3:5 (KJV) 

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 

The question becomes not what I think is right but what God believes to be right. As far as I can tell he places the value of life over the material in every case. He doesn't have a ratio of dead to the inconvenienced. This case is no different so when I speak I do not attempt to reflect my thinking whatsoever. In fact he promises if we place his will first, he will provide whatever else may be required in order with his will. If everyone had that faith it would be literally impossible for anyone to suffer a lack of the necessities.  

 

That said what can be said about your reply? That you have an opinion. One you've founded on what you believe to be true, not on what is true. You have no way to know the ratio of truth to twist.... You do have a means to discern right and wrong. 

 

 

 

[The Zip]

1 hour ago, Thejet07 said:

In my county of 100k, 61 allegedly died from this virus. So no school because of that? Get out of here.

I haven't been in grade school since the early 70's, so someone more recent can double check the numbers.  But 61 dead is not really a good number.  When you scale that number up to our 328 million, that would be around 200 thousand dead?  Close, but we're not there, yet.  School opening is mute, doctors are saying right now that kids have a teflon immune system when it comes to this virus.

 

The problem won't be the kids, the problem will be the durability of the staff.  If a substantial amount of the staff goes down without replacements, we will be right back where we are, online study.

 

Schools will open or not based on your governor.  Kids are teflon, spend the money on protection for the staff and we'll see how it goes.  

[KARNUT]

I hear and read this a war. We are at war with the bug. Ifs that’s the case this is the first war we choose to retreat and wait it out. The only problem is sooner or later we have to come out of hiding and face the bug, it will wait. Wouldn’t it better to face it before we lose our resources to do so? I don’t believe our country can handle another complete shutdown down. A rolling opening and pause seems to be the only reasonable way to handle this. Can we reach herd immunity this way? That’s really the only thing that has worked in the past. What about mutation? Part two in a year. I’m reading some people can’t handle wearing mask for prolonged periods without respiratory issues. One thing I’ve learned for certain in the last few months. They call it practicing medicine for a reason.

 

 

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[RyanbabZ71]

I haven't been in grade school since the early 70's, so someone more recent can double check the numbers.  But 61 dead is not really a good number.  When you scale that number up to our 328 million, that would be around 200 thousand dead?  Close, but we're not there, yet.  School opening is mute, doctors are saying right now that kids have a teflon immune system when it comes to this virus.
 
The problem won't be the kids, the problem will be the durability of the staff.  If a substantial amount of the staff goes down without replacements, we will be right back where we are, online study.
 
Schools will open or not based on your governor.  Kids are teflon, spend the money on protection for the staff and we'll see how it goes.  

Here they are letting each district determine if they open and how they go about it. We start July 29th. We were given the in school or elearning option (or leave and go the home schooling route).

Baseball is still continuing. We finished our 4th tournament (16th game) of the season.

#choosingtonotliveinfear




Ryan B.

[Grumpy Bear]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/30-year-old-dies-covid-party-texas

 

He thought it a hoax

 

Proverbs 14:15,16

 

4 hours ago, Thejet07 said:

So if you’re dead, sick, or bed ridden you can’t provide? And that’s that? I understood your zoo analogy. I just thought it was not a good one. And in most, not some, cases numbers have been fudged.

 

In my county of 100k, 61 allegedly died from this virus. So no school because of that? Get out of here. Anyway, you’re always correct. Just ask yourself.

 

Ecclesiastes 7:12

 

For wisdom is a protection just as money is a protection, but the advantage of of knowledge is this:

Wisdom preserves the life of it's owner.

 

[Thejet07]

So does money


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[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, Thejet07 said:

So does money

If that is the case then then rich would liver forever.

 

Howard Hughes died at age 70 with a net worth equivalent today of 11 BILLION dollars. (2.5 BILLION in 1976 when he died) 

 

Emperor Mansa Musa died at age  57 sitting on between 400 to 415 BILLION in today's money. 

 

King Solomon of Israel – peak net worth: $2.2 TRILLION in today money and he still died around age 60. 

 

Steve Jobs dies of pancreatic cancer at age 56 with a net worth of 10 BILLION. Money didn't save him either. Didn't even prolong his life. 

 

Forbes reports: Apr 4, 2005 - The leading causes of death among the world's richest people. ... Billionaires are killed by the same unglamorous things that kill the rest of us: ...

 

This virus doesn't care who you are or how much money you have. People sat in food lines driving $100 K automobiles and wearing thousand dollar suits sitting multi-million dollar retirement funds. All the money in the world won't buy you a ham sandwich in a supply chain interruption. Money didn't keep a bullet out of Lincoln or Kennedy's heads either. 

 

We have now left the realm of rational and that is where I get off the buss. What garbage 

 

 

 

 

[Thejet07]

What would wisdom done for them? People that have some type of wealth usually have more opportunities. Better health care, better nutrition, etc. Isn’t that what liberals usually claim? Again, your examples are obtuse

 

 

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