8 speed fluid and filter change

[ftwhite]

I replaced filter and fluid today. Used the transmission pump to pump most out from cooler line. sucked out some more with extractor from fill hole, and got a little more when I dropped the pan. 

 

Pan was much cleaner than expected. I have 61k on the truck. The dealer exchanged the original fluid with the updated M1 blue label stuff around 25k. This summer, on long road trips, the transmission often reported temps over 220. So I was really expecting to find most of the clutch material coating the bottom of the pan and magnets. Instead, the magnets were well coated, but the pan barely needed to be wiped. 

 

I put Amsoil back in this time. Look, if GM/Mobil1 got the fluid wrong the first time, I don't really care what they suggest the second time. The 8 speed is not a magical new technology. My opinion is, they mess with the fluid and temp to try to get more gas milage, rather than because they care about protection or lifetime wear. I think Amsoil and Redline focus on lifetime and wear, rather than gas milage. So I trust them more than GM. Just my view.

 

I also did a thermostat delete, using a Superior Transmission kit. 

 

So far, the temps are lower (doesn't mean much since we don't have summer temps), and the shifts are every bit as good as I ever remember. In fact, the weird 1-2 cold stumble I had every morning has not returned...yet. Time will tell, but glad I did this, and it was simple with the right tools. Will probably do this every 30k going forward. 

 

PS: I cut the factory filter open. Seems more like a screen for big particles, rather than the fine filtering of a oil/air filter for example. Really course material, and not much dirt seemed caught in it. I agree these probably don't need to be replaced, but that would be a odd way to save some money on such a expensive investment. 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by ftwhite

[Z45]

Quote

they mess with the fluid and temp to try to get more gas milage,

The GM bean counters source the ATF from the lowest bid supplier and that supplier used a base stock that met the specification.  There's always a drawback to low bid suppliers as the are going to use what meets the spec and no more.  Base stocks and additives for any particular spec have many choices from just meeting spec to exceeding it.  If you only need to meet the minimum, why use anything more if it costs you more money.  Good enough mentality. Like in the home construction business, they call it "builder quality" which means, the cheapest you can buy.   After the warranty is over, its your problem not theirs.   

 

 

[KARNUT]

I would imagine they get a substantial break on price due to quantity. And bragging rights for longevity doesn’t stop at the end of the warranty period. Maybe they don’t use the best. But certainly not the worst.

[ftwhite]

On 10/18/2021 at 5:26 AM, KARNUT said:

Maybe they don’t use the best. But certainly not the worst.

I think it could be argued that the original black label M1 was the worst. It cause lawsuits for creating problems and failures. The second attempt by M1 seems better, but it still was the weakest part (transmission behavior) of the truck in my mind. Road trips this summer proved that out for me with severe overheating and shift problems. 

I need more miles on the new Amsoil to feel confident that it solved most of those issues, but I doubt I would go back to M1 fluid even if it did solve them all. 

[Grumpy Bear]

https://www.lubegard.com/the-year-of-the-10-speed/

 

Interesting as both the 8 and 10 speeds use the same fluid. Are the same transmission. Have a different spec. And the only difference is???? Viscosity at 100 C. 

 

Red Line was a bit late to the party as they considered this oddity. They now recommend D6 in both!  Something neither GM nor Ford are on board with warranty wise. 

[KARNUT]

41 minutes ago, ftwhite said:

I think it could be argued that the original black label M1 was the worst. It cause lawsuits for creating problems and failures. The second attempt by M1 seems better, but it still was the weakest part (transmission behavior) of the truck in my mind. Road trips this summer proved that out for me with severe overheating and shift problems. 

I need more miles on the new Amsoil to feel confident that it solved most of those issues, but I doubt I would go back to M1 fluid even if it did solve them all. 

The first time I experienced synthetic other than Amsoil was mobile 1 in my 06 trailblazer ss. Usually the first thing I did was change to Amsoil. My family business switch to Amsoil decades ago. We put it in everything our equipment and vehicles. Amsoil saved us a fortune in hydraulics. With our high pressure pumps and motors to drive our cutter heads a blown hydraulic hose usually took out a pump. Thousands of dollars to replace not counting down time. Amsoil was the cure. My 94 Z28 was the first personal car to get Amsoil. My trucks before that. They all were tested with oil analysis and field test. Hundreds of equipment we used and sold. Dozens of cars and trucks, diesel and gas. When ever you look up synthetic oils the comparison is always as good as mobile one. Now everyone is factory filling with synthetics. Most people don’t get their money’s worth they change too soon. With early change intervals most synthetics will do. The oils not the problem. The engine recirculation, direct injection, and cylinder deactivation is. I’m resisting as long as possible. The new extended on those are 5-7K miles. Save on gas, spend on oil. Some people spend so much on maintenance, they could buy a good used car. I don’t, mine last as long. 

[dp454so]

On 2/8/2020 at 12:14 AM, Josh99722 said:

Hello everyone, if you dont mind i would like to comment.

i have a 2016 silverado 5.3L w/ 8 speed transmission.

i worked at a shop for many years.

using the machine to flush the system can have negative consequences.

if the machine puts too much pressure, you risk damaging a seal.

Also, have seen it where after a flush, debris can be pushed into the wrong part and cause issues.

we always drop the pan, replace the filter then fill it up, remove a cooler line and start the vehicle.

would continue to add fluid while the vehicle would push the old fluid out.

this way there is not too much pressure in the system.

We had seen issues when using a flush machine.

i added a b&m trans pan and added the b&m dip stick tube.

was definitely worth the money!

alot less messy being able to fill it normal.

adding the b&m pan has a drain plug and a additional 3.5 - 4 quarts of fluid.

makes it very convenient to drain quickly and refill w/ the b&m dip stick tube!  

i added a morimoto cooler, and a morimoto radiator.

and finally deleted the transmission thermostat.

reason is i installed a Whipple 2.9L super charger.

my transmission always sat from 180 degrees upto 230 degrees.

 

after the changes, i rarely get over 100 degrees now.

heat is the worst for the clutches.

 

Any questions i would like to help!

Awesome Info.  I'm going down the same road and have the same concern about fluid temps.  

 

What trans pan, cooler, and rad did you go with and how did you plumb them all together?  Would love to see a few pics on how you did this.

 

Thanks ahead of time!  Cheers.

[dp454so]

and to the OP, many thanks for sharing your knowledge!  Congrats on the pinned topic - please do keep them coming!

 

To those additional folk who shared it after going through your own experiences - many thanks to you as well.  This is one of the reasons I love the GM community.  Trust, community, and strength in numbers. 

 

The GM product 'aint perfect, but it's damn good, the stealerships are what they are, I love how we're being self-reliant and keeping our own hard-earned gold in our own pockets.  

 

 

[Black02Silverado]

On 10/19/2021 at 11:47 AM, Grumpy Bear said:

https://www.lubegard.com/the-year-of-the-10-speed/

 

Interesting as both the 8 and 10 speeds use the same fluid. Are the same transmission. Have a different spec. And the only difference is???? Viscosity at 100 C. 

 

Red Line was a bit late to the party as they considered this oddity. They now recommend D6 in both!  Something neither GM nor Ford are on board with warranty wise. 

Unless I missed it in the Lubegard article, they said that GM calls for the dexron HP.  That is false, the HP is for the 8sp not 10sp.  Ten speed takes the dexron ULV

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

Unless I missed it in the Lubegard article, they said that GM calls for the dexron HP.  That is false, the HP is for the 8sp not 10sp.  Ten speed takes the dexron ULV

 

What I was targeting was that Ford and GM 110 speeds (which are the same transmission) have a different viscosity spec and the reasoning for that difference. I would have thought you would appreciate that given AMSOILS nearly  'universal' fluid stance. But....I'll read it again. 

 

Wait I see where you got that. My comments that Red Line specs D6 for both boxes and both manufactures. Red Line is always wear adverse first...economy second. Anyway, didn't come from the Lube Guard posting. That one just showed the difference in engineering call outs between to companies with the same box. 

 

Yea...I don't know what to tell ya Nick. What they 'take' as a call out and what it 'best'.... not a can you really want to kick is it? I mean given AMSOILS aversion to getting a Dexos license and yet recommending fluids without it. It really does get confusing. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

[customboss]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

What I was targeting was that Ford and GM 110 speeds (which are the same transmission) have a different viscosity spec and the reasoning for that difference.

That longitudinal 10 speed Ford designed that while GM designed the transverse 9 speed automatic. The engineering was joint.

They manufacture them each at their own plants and made them unique to the brand.

 

They most likely recommend their own fluids for that reason. Kinda like Infineum is jointly owned by ExxonMobil and Royal Dutch Shell. 

 

Oronite is owned by Chevron but kept at arms length. 

 

Afton and Lubrizol independent barely. 

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, customboss said:

That longitudinal 10 speed Ford designed that while GM designed the transverse 9 speed automatic. The engineering was joint.

They manufacture them each at their own plants and made them unique to the brand.

 

1.) They most likely recommend their own fluids for that reason. Kinda like 2.) Infineum is jointly owned by ExxonMobil and Royal Dutch Shell. 

 

Oronite is owned by Chevron but kept at arms length. 

 

Afton and Lubrizol independent barely. 

 

I do not understand the connection between these two thought that makes them "kinda like". Explain please.

****************************************

60 years ago I rebuilt my first motor under my fathers direction and it still runs today. I remember as he was teaching me saying, "Motors don't know what name is on the valve cover". I say to my boys, "The is no such thing as Elfin Magic." Same sentiment. The bible says it more succinctly. Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

 

 

Does GM and Ford use the same transmission?

Yes, it's the same transmission (almost)

This might come as a surprise to those who think of Ford and GM as archrivals, but the two companies developed their new 10-speed automatic transmissions together. ... That 10-speed automatic is the one that Ford and GM are both now gearing up to produce in their own plants.May 22, 2016

 

Car and Driver

 

This new 10-speed rear-drive transmission is the result of collaboration between Ford and General Motors, although Ford had the engineering lead on it. The companies also are jointly developing a nine-speed transverse automatic for front-drive cars and crossovers; GM is leading the engineering on that effort. Not long after Ford starts cranking out F-150s with these transmissions, Chevrolet will launch it in the 2017 Camaro ZL1, coupled to the 650-hp, supercharged 6.2-liter LT4 engine from the Corvette Z06. With a torque capacity of at least 650 lb-ft, this first version of the transmission is plenty beefy to handle that track-ready machine, as well as the Ford Raptor, with its uprated 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 making upwards of 450 horsepower—maybe more. We would expect that soon afterward, we will see this design spawn a family of 10-speed automatics that are smaller and lighter to suit less hunky rear-drive machines in the Ford and GM families.

 

This reminds me of watching the 6 PM news on a slow news day. We don't actually have any news so....will just make some. 

 

Lubegard made the note that the difference in CHOICE of fluids was based not on "Engineering" but rather on Corporate  GOALS. Same reason GM uses 0W20 in one vehicle and 5W30 in another that use the SAME motor but for different uses. 

[customboss]

10 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I do not understand the connection between these two thought that makes them "kinda like". Explain please.

Corporate arms length proprietary agreements. Not uncommon even among fierce competitors. Infineum a good one. XOM and RDS are arch enemies but share ownership of the same oil additive company. 

 

I am sure the readers here enjoy your GM-Truck scripture references so here's one for you:  Vanity updated to Meaningless..

 

Ecclesiastes 1:2-3 2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless." 3 What do people gain from all their labors at which they toil under the sun?

 

You are one odd duck!  I think you mean well but you sure enjoy posting spinning in circles.  That confuses people and when someone does that I have to wonder why.  You have a lot of experience and good solid tech data to share, I encourage you to stick to it! 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

11 hours ago, customboss said:

Corporate arms length proprietary agreements. Not uncommon even among fierce competitors. Infineum a good one. XOM and RDS are arch enemies but share ownership of the same oil additive company. 

 

I am sure the readers here enjoy your GM-Truck scripture references so here's one for you:  Vanity updated to Meaningless..

 

Ecclesiastes 1:2-3 2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless." 3 What do people gain from all their labors at which they toil under the sun?

 

You are one odd duck!  I think you mean well but you sure enjoy posting spinning in circles.  That confuses people and when someone does that I have to wonder why.  You have a lot of experience and good solid tech data to share, I encourage you to stick to it! 

 

 

 

Actually I spend way to much of my time attempting to clear the confusion fella's like you bring to a party. I'd rather spend it just answering questions with answers that have actual practical value. Lubrication is not the voodoo black art guys like you make it out to be. It also isn't the forbidden area of knowledge blenders  and more importantly marking types would like to have you believe it is.  

 

Most don't mind the scriptural references and those that do, I pay no mind. 

 

You've made several solid suggestions but few will notice there importance as long as you keep drawing attention to yourself, or to me, and injecting things that are simply not true.

 

Here's one you whiffed hard. Quoting you from the other thread: 

 

As far as GCMS you'd need a proprietary library of GCMS data which each oil company and additive/chem company has for their own use but they don't share it so YOU'D be guessing like you do reading SDS sheets and that one oil analysis you extracted for Pepper.

 

You missed the part where I don't guess.

 

 I didn't get my education on the internet or the back of a bottle. I wrote some of the manuals these processes run by.

 

***********************************************

 

Viscosity. The most important feature of any lubricant. You have enough or you don't. 

 

Additives. MOST of them are there to extend the service life of the primary medium...the oil. Those that don't are there to protect during start up and idle periods. 

 

People like my father, uncle and a few others keep motors from the 30's alive for a million miles on oils you wouldn't put in lawnmower. Oils without ANY additives and the only difference was the length of the OCI. Dads 28 A for example had it's oil changed every 50 miles. By the 1960's he was running FE Fords to the million mile mark on Phillips Trop-Artic Mineral oils at 1K to 1.5K intervals. Today he's out to 7,500 with Super Tech. Still pushing motor and transmissions few ever see. 

 

They use to tell us NOT to add 'different oil" and if you were forced to....change as soon as you can. Cenpeco was one of the first oil companies to 'advertise' homogenized oils. Oils whose different weights could be blended without separation. They always could be. That was a flat out lie. In fact today blenders use two to six different base oils to make a product that fits an particular SAE classification. Always have. Marketing is everything. Quite believing this a a black art. 

 

Today you can mix anything with anything.

You always could. 

 

Fact is, then, it was even easier. Group II oils have a low enough aniline point to hold any add package you wish to throw at them. 

 

Ever hear of alkylated naphthalene? A Group V base oil with a very nice aniline point in the lower viscosities. 

 

******************************************

 

You have three questions to ask yourself when choosing an oil. 

 

1.) Viscosity, do you want economy or protection? 

2.) OCI length? 

3.) Special features you might desire....such as:

     a.) Exceptional lubricity

     b.) Exceptional heat transfer

     c.) Exceptional cold weather flow

     d.) You getting the drift yet?

 

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

so YOU'D be guessing

 

This makes me laugh. No one on the planet KNOWS all there is about nutrition, in example. Not even close and yet, we, as a society seem capable of feeding ourselves well enough that the average live expectancy in developed countries is:

 

In 2020, the average life expectancy for those born in more developed countries was 79 years for males and 82 years for females. https://www.statista.com/

 

We are all guessing. Even the 'experts". To quote your quote of King Solomon:  "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless." What do people gain from all their labors at which they toil under the sun?

 

That said and as I said. I guess about little.

 

I know what I know. I don't know what I don't know. And I know the difference.