LOC LC7I installation in Trail boss with BOSE

[MrSavageTim]

Hey guys, first and foremost Merry Christmas and I hope everyone is having a great holiday, I however am in a bit of a bind.  I wasn't happy with the bose sound system in my new Trail Boss so I went with JL 3.5” in the dash, and a 6x9 3 way coaxial and a 6.5 2 way coax in the rear. I originally bought the factory kicker sub upgrade for the bose to see if it would help and it did but it wasnt enough so I went with JL. Only problem is I ****ed up and my wife had a tech support package through Best Buy  so my install was free and it certainly showed. Ive already undid what they did and it seems they tapped into the speaker wire cluster in the passenger door panel and tried to wire from the bose amp to the new JL 5 Channel amp and then tried to run my 6 channel LC7i output converter to the factory head unit from the same rear passenger door cluster. Sounded like shit, I had no control over my fades, my highs were ear shrieking, no sound when making phone calls and they attached the wrong wires etc. Long story short I memorized all the speaker wire colors in the truck both positive and negative fixed the cluster they ****ed up and have everything other than the speakers that are currently disconnected; connected. Ive also got the kicker sub upgrade to work with the 6” bose sub without the special harness after some splicing and tapping into the mono sub input coming from the bose amp (Blue/Grey and Green/Black thicker gauge wire). My problem Im running into is where I tap into the signal coming from my head unit in order to plug into my LOC. From there I can hook my amp up to my speakers and call it a ****ing day. Ive pulled my rear seats to have full access to the bose amp and Ive also pulled the door sills and some of the dash to be able to get to the dash speakers. Which brings me to my other problem. I don't want my 3.5”  JL speakers to be wired to the bose sub for obvious reasons, so is it possible to wire them directly to the head unit since they're a lower RMS and, if so, then how? Basically where do I tap into the truck to install my six channel LOC and wire my dash speakers to my head unit. Currently I have the speaker wires in the rear passenger sill cluster snipped since thats where best buy had them snipped in order to bypass the amp. Additionally is bypassing the amp as simple as snipping the wires belonging to the speakers which the bose amp is supplying power to? I know there are harnesses but Ive already got the truck apart and I have my solder and weather tubes to properly splice my connections so I don't mind the work as long as Im able to get it done, Ive been without proper sound for 3 months Im not waiting on a harness since the holidays is the only time I have off. Il post pictures of the cluster **** shortly. Merry Christmas and happy holidays guys !

Edited December 25, 2019 by MrSavageTim
Adding a Picture

[TrustyDusty]

Sounds like you have a lot of fun on your hands! Help me better understand a bit more because I don't have Bose in my Trail Boss.

 

The original Bose system has 2 3.5" dash speakers, 2 6.5" rear door speakers, and 2 6x9's somewhere else? Anything in the front doors?

 

You may want to check into whether you should be hooking that LC7i up before or after the Bose amp - or using it at all.  If you think about it, the wires from the head unit  to the Bose amp are like RCA cables (line level) and from the Bose amp to the speakers are like the normal speaker wires that the average LOC is looking for. You may not even need an LOC if you use wires before the Bose amp. I have spliced those wires directly to RCA cables in other Bose systems.  No, you cannot hookup your 3.5" speakers to the factory deck if they were originally hooked up to the Bose amp.

 

Once the LOC is hooked up correctly or not used at all, your 5 channel JL amp does fronts, rears, and a sub. I can't remember, but does that amp have 2 or 3 sets of RCA inputs?  If you have more than 4 speakers, you may want an additional amp or speakers made to be separated that have filters. Most amps want to see 4 ohms per channel.

 

Overall, switching out a Bose system and trying to keep the factory head unit can be a pain. 

[JH1973]

If your Trail Boss is newer(you didn't indicate the year) then you cannot tap the signals from the head unit to the amp.Reason is because everything now is Can-bus data and those signals cannot be sent into audio gear that uses analog signals.In the older Bose systems yes you could tap the signals because they were analog.You definitely need to tap the post Bose amp outputs to get a signal unless you are willing to buy the NavTV unit that converts the serial data into line level RCA's(cost is $600.00).

[MrSavageTim]

On 12/26/2019 at 11:35 PM, TrustyDusty said:

Sounds like you have a lot of fun on your hands! Help me better understand a bit more because I don't have Bose in my Trail Boss.

 

The original Bose system has 2 3.5" dash speakers, 2 6.5" rear door speakers, and 2 6x9's somewhere else? Anything in the front doors?

 

You may want to check into whether you should be hooking that LC7i up before or after the Bose amp - or using it at all.  If you think about it, the wires from the head unit  to the Bose amp are like RCA cables (line level) and from the Bose amp to the speakers are like the normal speaker wires that the average LOC is looking for. You may not even need an LOC if you use wires before the Bose amp. I have spliced those wires directly to RCA cables in other Bose systems.  No, you cannot hookup your 3.5" speakers to the factory deck if they were originally hooked up to the Bose amp.

 

Once the LOC is hooked up correctly or not used at all, your 5 channel JL amp does fronts, rears, and a sub. I can't remember, but does that amp have 2 or 3 sets of RCA inputs?  If you have more than 4 speakers, you may want an additional amp or speakers made to be separated that have filters. Most amps want to see 4 ohms per channel.

 

Overall, switching out a Bose system and trying to keep the factory head unit can be a pain. 

So I wound up just taking it to a shop and you are right, all the signals must be tapped from the amp but they have to be sent into a DSP, my only problem now is i went with all coaxial speakers and have 6x9 3 way JL coax in the front and 3.5” 2 way JL coax in the dash, so Im swapping those for 6.5” component JL since the 3 way coax withe 3.5” dash speakers are giving me way to high of highs, long story short to power my 4 speakers and sub he used an alpine PDR V75 (much better than the JL XDR700 I had in there IMO) and a smaller amp to power the dash speakers. All the signals go from the bose amp to the DSP (Audio Control DM 608) then to their respective amp powering the speaker. Sounds much better but again I need different speakers like the components in the front to eliminate some very shrill highs that I am getting. Long story short, with these trucks you cant do it without a DSP if you have bose, not even the PAC harness will work, I know this because I called them and spoke to them directly. All in all if I knew it would cost me this much time, hassle, headache, and frustration I would have never done it. Bose wasn't the best but it wasn't worth all the broken clips in my plastic trim from my frustration. Il update as to how it sounds when I get the neW component speakers installed, Im also thinking about taking that mini amp that was powering the dash speakers and having it power a small 6” sub in the dash to replace the bose one and give the truck more bass since I only have the one 10” kicker in the rear. 

[MrSavageTim]

On 12/28/2019 at 1:54 AM, JH1973 said:

If your Trail Boss is newer(you didn't indicate the year) then you cannot tap the signals from the head unit to the amp.Reason is because everything now is Can-bus data and those signals cannot be sent into audio gear that uses analog signals.In the older Bose systems yes you could tap the signals because they were analog.You definitely need to tap the post Bose amp outputs to get a signal unless you are willing to buy the NavTV unit that converts the serial data into line level RCA's(cost is $600.00).

Hey sorry didn't know there were any Trail bosses out before 2019, its a 2019, I wound up having to go with a DSP to be able to get the right signals from the bose amp

[JH1973]

Ok,I'm not totally familiar with all the different trims and such for the GM trucks.I have access to all the schematics on them and build audio harnesses for people wanting to add aftermarket audio gear.That being said the people with Bose factory systems actually have it tougher when wanting to upgrade because of all the processing that Bose amp does.That's why I am steering people that want to do an all out upgrade(doors,dash and subs) to the NavTV Zen unit that transforms the MOST serial data into full range line level RCA outputs.They are clean,full range signals that you can build a solid system off of.

 

But for people with the Bose systems that just want to add a subwoofer amp and sub that NavTV unit is way overkill.They can simply use the post Bose amp sub signal and they're fine.Now people with Non-Bose systems are actually in the best boat for adding aftermarket gear because the signals are not processed and can be sent into any line converter,DSP or high level amplifier inputs and come out with good results.

Edited December 31, 2019 by JH1973

[Frankielozano214]

7 minutes ago, JH1973 said:

Ok,I'm not totally familiar with all the different trims and such for the GM trucks.I have access to all the schematics on them and build audio harnesses for people wanting to add aftermarket audio gear.That being said the people with a Bose factory systems actually have it tougher when wanting to upgrade because of all the processing that Bose amp does.That's why I am steering people that want to do an all out upgrade(doors,dash and subs) to the NavTV Zen unit that transforms the MOST serial data into full range line level RCA outputs.They are clean,full range signals that you can build a solid system off of.

 

But for people with the Bose systems that just want to add a subwoofer amp and sub that NavTV unit is way overkill.They can simply use the post Bose amp sub signal and they're fine.Now people with Non-Bose systems are actually in the best boat for adding aftermarket gear because the signals are not processed and can be sent into any line converter,DSP or high level amplifier inputs and come out with good results.

Damn it sounds like you know your stuff, been wanting to add a sub to my truck kinda like that factory Bose sub that’s under the center console, my truck is a non Bose 2014 Silverado LT (one of my friend has a Tahoe with Bose Speakers and factory sub sounds pretty nice for factory)

[MrSavageTim]

Hey guys got an update, so the system even with the 6x9 JL C2 Coax 3 ways in the front door, Sounds pretty damn good, like really really good. The DSP after reading on some car audio forums for these trucks seems to be the best and only way to go. The only thing Im struggling with now are ear piercing highs causing ear fatigue. That being said I think its because of the extra mid bass driver on the 3 way in my front door and the fact I need to tweak the dash speakers a bit in order get that perfect filling sound in the truck. So for anyone with a new truck 2019+ with a bose system you HAVE to get a DSP if you want top notch audiophile quality. The signal goes from the BOSE AMP>DSP>AMP>SPEAKERS. I put this because it was an EXCRUCIATING process to get my truck sounding the way my picky ass audiophile ears wanted it. Also if you look around on this forum and type in “anybody start tearing down 2019 to put nee sound system in”, you will see on or around page 20 a full system install of all Audiofrog Speakers and some Macaroni Amps with a Helix DSP (I know thats not the name but I don't care its funny). In that forum you will find a link to the diy car mobile audio site detailing from crowning to delivery how the guy installed a BADASS system in a new 2019 chevy truck with bose equipped. That should add some clarity since he goes into depth about all of the settings etc. he selected in order to make the bose amp go **** itself. After this total abortion of car audio etc. I have fully dedicated myself toward bashing everything bose related. Long story short, **** bose. And if you have a truck with bose and you wanna get rid of the system, then do it the right way the first time with a DSP. 

[MrSavageTim]

9 hours ago, JH1973 said:

Ok,I'm not totally familiar with all the different trims and such for the GM trucks.I have access to all the schematics on them and build audio harnesses for people wanting to add aftermarket audio gear.That being said the people with Bose factory systems actually have it tougher when wanting to upgrade because of all the processing that Bose amp does.That's why I am steering people that want to do an all out upgrade(doors,dash and subs) to the NavTV Zen unit that transforms the MOST serial data into full range line level RCA outputs.They are clean,full range signals that you can build a solid system off of.

 

But for people with the Bose systems that just want to add a subwoofer amp and sub that NavTV unit is way overkill.They can simply use the post Bose amp sub signal and they're fine.Now people with Non-Bose systems are actually in the best boat for adding aftermarket gear because the signals are not processed and can be sent into any line converter,DSP or high level amplifier inputs and come out with good results.

Ive got shrill highs, but I also have 6x9 3 way coax in the front which I think is producing to much high, any tips?

Edited December 31, 2019 by MrSavageTim
Misspelling

[MrSavageTim]

Got

[JH1973]

With your setup only thing I can think is to go into the DSP and use the GEQ or PEQ to cut higher frequencies down where it's not so piercing.

[MrSavageTim]

4 hours ago, JH1973 said:

With your setup only thing I can think is to go into the DSP and use the GEQ or PEQ to cut higher frequencies down where it's not so piercing.

Thankyou Il let you know how it goes !!!

[Alberto Aguirre]

If I don’t have Bose, do I still need a dsp? What’s the lc7 for then? Sorry I’m not very educated on these things. 

[MrSavageTim]

3 hours ago, Alberto Aguirre said:

If I don’t have Bose, do I still need a dsp? What’s the lc7 for then? Sorry I’m not very educated on these things. 

Hey bud no worries I was just as ignorant to this whole car situation, but heres the thing, if you dont have BOSE I dont know where you would tap into in order to get signal to the amp, all the trucks come with bus level data signal which is complicated and almost impossible to tap into without a $$$ harness or replacing the head unit with the NAV TV head unit which is what I would recommend to you and just skip the center channel (LOC) all together, but a little update I got my truck to sound AMAZING with a DSP so I would recommend a DSP to anyone

[MrSavageTim]

Update: I tuned the settings in the DSP, the assholes who tuned it from the shop clearly had no clue what they were doing and boosted my high frequencies by 6 db, they also didn't set the Timing delays correctly, so I went in there tuned the system (had to make a little custom fab work in order to fit the 3.5” JL speakers in the dash but god damn they sound great) and long story short it sounded way better to keep the front 3 way coax with the 3.5” dash speakers and 6.5” rear door 2 way coax sounds. IT SOUNDS AMAZING FINALLY !!! The nightmare is over !!! Both of my subs are really punchy and are evenly dispersed throughout the cab and the bass and mids are so deep it feels like your losing a little air from your stomach because the sound is so deep rich and full, and hthe highs are crisp and warm, its exactly how I pictured a 3k dollar system to sound, Il post some pictures when Im done cleaning up the truck

Edited January 3, 2020 by MrSavageTim