Front Suspension & Frame compared to Ford

[CRApex]

5 hours ago, Hendrickson360 said:

Hm so i guess nobody got any exact data from the new frame? because "beefed up" can mean pretty much anything. I know i got a link years ago fro this page, where you could look into the exact gm-data, it's where i got the number sof the 2011 frame from. Sad that those informations are becoming rarer it seems, if you check australian truck pdfs,  the measurements of the frame are always included, as is the max. axial mass itself, with tires and without.

What is the world coming to...

[Hendrickson360]

Obviously there are bigger Issues, especially in America, but i think its noteworthy, that people seem to care more about 10feet of torque or the nicest leather finish compaed to he basis of their truck, which is exactly that, a truck, so the backbone is actually way ore important compared to a usual car.

[PrettyGoodNotBadEH!]

Based on my observations both with the average joe's pickup and pickups used in industry (particularly mining) i think its safe to say that Ford has always had a tougher frame and front end in the superduty, especially pre-2011.

However im talking extreme service like mining and oilfield where these trucks are literally the ***hole of the fleet, they get driven by multiple drivers that don't care over rough roads, faster than they should be goin, and the the only work that gets done to them is oil changes or when something major literally falls off lol. The GM's and Rams dont make it as long.

 

That being said....

I think the 2011+ GM front end is a HUGE improvement over the joke of a front end that was previous to that. 

Sure its the same basic design but its way beefier and for the average consumer its probably the best overall package in and HD pickup truck. Its the nicest riding, most cost effective front end and not to mention everything is still greasable AND no death wobble. 

165000 km on my 2015 and im just starting to notice that classic "loose but predictable" GM feeling in the steering wheel, and its not a pavement princess. Pretty sure the play is in the box anyway.

 

I also believe frame flex or lack thereof is over rated. You NEED some flex in the frame otherwise things will start cracking pretty quick. These videos we see going up ramps are getting rediculous.

We can all learn alot from how semis are constructed.

[newdude]

On 12/19/2019 at 10:05 AM, Hendrickson360 said:

Hello,

 

as far as i know Ford had the strongest frame since 2017 with a massive 240x90x4.7mm frame rail (9.45x3.5x0.18, measured under the hood) made out of 80.000PSI steel, besting the GM frame of 2011 which had 215x85x4.5 (8.45x3.3x0.17) made out of 60.000PSI steel.

 

The GM chassis cap used to be much much stronger in the rear, but i dont know if that is still the case, of course it will flex a lot moe because of the open frame rail design..

 

Now did GM change the new frame to get equal with Ford? Does anybody has any numbers or documents bout the dimension and steel quality?

 

Also i guess the Dana Super 60 in the front of the Ford is still a bit stronger yet more uncomfortable compared to the Independant Suspension i guess? it used to be in the past, but i dont know if that can still be said, since there are really strong independant suspensions out there.

 

Marcus

 

 

 

 

Here you are sir.  Straight from the online order guide where GM has almost always posted the data.  

 

2500hd - https://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/NASApp/domestic/printbook?pdftype=option&lang=1&vehicle=21694&rpoid=36178

 

3500hd - https://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/NASApp/domestic/printbook?pdftype=option&lang=1&vehicle=21724&rpoid=36178

 

The 3500hd Chassis Cab information is not published online yet.  A Box delete truck would use the specs above.  

[Hendrickson360]

Thank you very much for this information! So it's always 2.15x850x4.5mm. So the measurements are pretty much the exact same as they where back in 2011 right? Also the steel quality sems to be the same.

 

As i reacall the rear end of the Chassis cap used to be ridicoulusly overdimensioned, something that seemed to be taken out of an modern day 6500.

 

So yeah it's tough, but quite a bit below the Ford, in terms of dimensions and probably steel quality overall (50-80.000, and i guess the 80 will go for the crucial areas).

 

I also do not agree to the flexing argument, since there a lot of heavy duty vehicles like the MAN KAT military trucks or offroad cranes, who take a lot more stress than any average semi and they still are holding up over deacades. A flexing frame is just easier to built, upfit and made rustproof, but if done right, a stiff frame has huge advantes.

[C/K Man]

You would need to compare the RBM of the frames to get a definitive answer.  We have a few 2019 Super Duty's in our fleet now, and looking at the frame it there seems to be quite a variance in material thickness and dimension front to rear.  Very understandable, I am sure Ford does not want to waste money on material in less critical areas.  I think the new Super Duty frame is a big improvement over the old one.  Is it substantially better that the GM HD frame?  Couldn't tell you at this point.