Lipstick On A PIG

[Grumpy Bear]

16 hours ago, Thomcat said:

Not really an accurate measure considering the advanced education and increased opportunities afforded me over my dad's generation. In his best year my father at the same age made less than 20% of my salary at retirement 50 years later. And his last house sold went for 16% of what my last house sold for 20 years later....a really inaccurate indicator since today the house he sold would easily go for 2000% over what he sold it for and at least double what mine current one is  worth. The Hershey bar is the only real accurate indicator of inflation.

Dad bought his place in 1957 for $19,000. If it were a 2000% gain it would be worth $380,000!

It's appraises currently for $70,000. His tax bill is higher than his PITI payment was. 

 

 

Seriously? A Hershey bar as THE economic indicator?

 

 

Last time I heard something talk like this I was 45 years old and they were selling Mutual Funds as THE retirement vehicle. Promising people that if they just saved 10% of their wages they would retire millionaires. Have plenty of money. The few that actually saved a million found out that it wouldn't replace a fraction of their current wages or support an equivalent life style. That fella back then making $25K a year was told a million at 4% simple interest producing $40K in income would be the ticket. Then pensions were dissolved and 401K's become the company ticket. How did that work out? 

 

Yields were cut in half over that period and cost were off the chain. Markets crashed repeatedly. 8 million would barely crack the nut in equivalent interest income. Then they told us that they would allow us to save up to half our wages if past 50 to 'catch up'.  As a concession to several bubble burst and unforeseen events. Dot COM ring a bell?  Housing bubble? 911? Paris? London? Iraq? Insane taxing? Now SS and personal 401K used for retirement are under the attack as well.

 

In those days the wife and I walked to the store and carried home four 1/6 bushel paper bags of grocery that feed us a week for $8. A jar of instant coffee cost that much today. Yet my wages but tripled over that same time period. I made good money. 

 

If a Hershey bar was such an indicator it would also be a currency more stable than the dollar.  More valuable that gold.

 

You are in for a rude surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yoda2]

20 hours ago, Cpl_Punishment said:

I ask this as someone who's researching my first truck purchase: What do you think you'll buy instead? 

Cpl_Punishment ......

In response to your question about what to buy instead ... that's a difficult one not knowing your specifics.

 

In my case, I was Up-Grading from a 2001 GMC Yukon XL SLT.

She had 168,000 miles with a lot of maintenance as well as repairs done over the years.

She was an old girl but served a good purpose.

Beyond "normal maintenance" the following was required.

Over the years, my brake lines rusted out and were replaced with Stainless Lines.

The Transmission cooler rusted out.

The rear brake spray shields rusted out

The front wheel bearings were replaced twice

Water pump for bearing and seal failure

Side mirrors for control motor failure

Fuel pump failure ( at 68,000 miles )

 ..................... and the list goes on but I' not complaining

 

I do/did most of my own work and was a licensed NYS Inspector working for the NYC Board of Education as an auto shop instructor.

I don''t think I'll be able to do as much as I did before because of the new trucks requirements for special tools and computer.

 

After only owning my 2019 New Style T1  for 2,300 miles ... I'm having second thoughts about being able to keep her as

long as I did my last GMC.

 

So, let's ask .... are you buying a work truck a sporty looking truck or an off road vehicle?

Will you be towing on a regular basis?  What kind of load?

Will you be leasing or buying?

How many miles per year will you expect to put on the truck?

 

Most of all, what do you expect to from your new vehicle and what is your budget?

Edited November 8, 2019 by Yoda2
spelling errors

[KARNUT]

I’ve had my share of up model trucks and cars. I tend to go for lower mid model vehicles now. There are two reasons. One I’m not going to buy upgrades I’m not interested in. If I’m going to spend Lexus, Acura, BMW money that’s what I’ll buy. The best deals are on packages such as all star or Texas Edition.


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[Yoda2]

16 hours ago, Radchad said:

I usually don’t respond to these type of posts but I’ll chime in my two cents. 

My 19 TB has had the leaky rear glass, blue screen of death, and small shutter while cruising, all which was fixed.  If you think about it, any new mechanical and electronic machines ( vehicles,  atvs,  snowmobiles,  heavy equipment, etc...) have and will have some issues.  I work for CAT and it’s very common for $40k to $1M pieces of equipment to have bugs of some sort.   It is what it is really.  It’s not the end of the world. Find a dealer that has good techs that can troubleshoot and fix shit.  

It seems as tho a lot of peeps on here cry and whine about most piddly stuff and act lik it’s GM’s fault they don’t like something.  Remember nobody forced you to buy a GM and there is plenty of fords and rams and Toyota’s that are most likely problem free.  Again this is just my 2 cents , agree or disagree.  

 

RadChad .....

I hear you loud and clear ... and totally disagree !

 

I have a Genesis G80 5.0 as and an Acura MDX with the Advanced Technology Package as well as my 2019 Sierra T1.

I spend top dollar for my vehicles and order them fully loaded.

 

When I spend on average 50 to 70K or more on a vehicle I expect the manufacturer to have produced a flawless product that does everything the manufacture claims and does it right.

I don't want to be a test subject for an engineers project that is still in the works or worse, half baked.

 

When brakes fail, engines fail, transmissions crap out these are inexcusable corporate errors.

You say you work for Caterpillar, and you know that you are producing inferior product that has bugs of some sort .... then why in hell aren't these bugs squashed before you dump product

on hard working folk who sped their dear dollars. 

 

These "bugs" are why many of us are turning to Non-USA product ... or Non-USA Manufactures who are producing their good right here in the States but with old world  scruples and integrity.

I'm not saying that "foreign"  product is perfect or better but it just appears to be that these companies ( for the most part ) are putting more effort into product quality.

 

When I spend more for a vehicle today then I did on my first home I expect something that doesn't require an exterminator to make right.

 

Finally, to address your comment " Find a dealer that has good techs that can troubleshoot and fix shit." .... You said it.

The stuff is SHIT and the technicians at local dealers can't keep up with what the manufactures are changing.

That's not whining .... that STATING FACT !

 

Perhaps you'd also like to give Boeing a pass for their  737 MAX, which according  to your own words should have been expected to have a few bugs.

Tell that the the relatives of the 346 people who died in a rushed to market product.

Then speak with the owners of the 387 aircraft that were purchased and paid for but are sitting on the ground.

 

[ct_corey]

There is a big difference in "bugs" being worked out and the issues this trucks are having like people who have their brakes go out with their family in the truck, or leaving people stranded on the side of the road.

[KARNUT]

Dad bought his place in 1957 for $19,000. If it were a 2000% gain it would be worth $380,000!

It's appraises currently for $70,000. His tax bill is higher than his PITI payment was. 

 

 

Seriously? A Hershey bar as THE economic indicator?

 

 
Last time I heard something talk like this I was 45 years old and they were selling Mutual Funds as THE retirement vehicle. Promising people that if they just saved 10% of their wages they would retire millionaires. Have plenty of money. The few that actually saved a million found out that it wouldn't replace a fraction of their current wages or support an equivalent life style. That fella back then making $25K a year was told a million at 4% simple interest producing $40K in income would be the ticket. Then pensions were dissolved and 401K's become the company ticket. How did that work out? 
 
Yields were cut in half over that period and cost were off the chain. Markets crashed repeatedly. 8 million would barely crack the nut in equivalent interest income. Then they told us that they would allow us to save up to half our wages if past 50 to 'catch up'.  As a concession to several bubble burst and unforeseen events. Dot COM ring a bell?  Housing bubble? 911? Paris? London? Iraq? Insane taxing? Now SS and personal 401K used for retirement are under the attack as well.
 
In those days the wife and I walked to the store and carried home four 1/6 bushel paper bags of grocery that feed us a week for $8. A jar of instant coffee cost that much today. Yet my wages but tripled over that same time period. I made good money. 

 

If a Hershey bar was such an indicator it would also be a currency more stable than the dollar.  More valuable that gold.

 

You are in for a rude surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 

Tying inflation to housing cost isn’t a good indication of wage growth or cost of living across the U.S. I was lucky enough to buy a house and property 20 years ago in one of the richest country’s in Texas before it was. My father in law has a similar type of home in NC that’s worth 150K less. Same for California. Sell a medium price home in California move anywhere else. You can buy a home and live off what’s left. Being self employed I invested in an IRA for retirement. The 08 crash steered me to buying investment property. One rent check and SS will give me everything I need in retirement. The IRA will be for travel. The investment IRA will decrease over time, the investment property will go up.


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[ct_corey]

Being in construction equipment sales, companies like CAT will NOT leave you completely screwed like GM will.  Their customer service in incredible. 

[KARNUT]

Being in construction equipment sales, companies like CAT will NOT leave you completely screwed like GM will.  Their customer service in incredible. 

Apple and oranges really. As an OEM equipment buyer name brands such as Cat. were pricey because of reliability, resale and reputation. People made money with these products. Dealers had service trucks ready to go in the field. Trucks started life as tools for work. As long as they moved people didn’t complain. Now people expect vehicles with lousy weight distribution that’s shaped like a brick to be like a car. Then they want trucks to drive for them , stop for them, adjust distance for them and be loaded up with electronics to be trouble free. When Toyota does it I’ll believe it can be done in a truck, reliably.


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[ct_corey]

8 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Apple and oranges really. As an OEM equipment buyer name brands such as Cat. were pricey because of reliability, resale and reputation. People made money with these products. Dealers had service trucks ready to go in the field. Trucks started life as tools for work. As long as they moved people didn’t complain. Now people expect vehicles with lousy weight distribution that’s shaped like a brick to be like a car. Then they want trucks to drive for them , stop for them, adjust distance for them and be loaded up with electronics to be trouble free. When Toyota does it I’ll believe it can be done in a truck, reliably.


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sorry bud but asking your 50k truck to not have the brakes fail randomly is not too much to ask for. 

[KARNUT]

sorry bud but asking your 50k truck to not have the brakes fail randomly is not too much to ask for. 

All do to cylinder deactivation. Why? Because of gas mileage. Why because of the government. Why because people want car gas mileage out of a truck. Soon as I realize that crap was on my 14 I sold it. If I needed a new truck today it wouldn’t be a GM.


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[ct_corey]

5 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

All do to cylinder deactivation. Why? Because of gas mileage. Why because of the government. Why because people want car gas mileage out of a truck. Soon as I realize that crap was on my 14 I sold it. If I needed a new truck today it wouldn’t be a GM.


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Then why are you here defending the brand like you have done so many times. 

[Radchad]

41 minutes ago, Yoda2 said:

RadChad .....

I hear you loud and clear ... and totally disagree !

 

I have a Genesis G80 5.0 as and an Acura MDX with the Advanced Technology Package as well as my 2019 Sierra T1.

I spend top dollar for my vehicles and order them fully loaded.

 

When I spend on average 50 to 70K or more on a vehicle I expect the manufacturer to have produced a flawless product that does everything the manufacture claims and does it right.

I don't want to be a test subject for an engineers project that is still in the works or worse, half baked.

 

When brakes fail, engines fail, transmissions crap out these are inexcusable corporate errors.

You say you work for Caterpillar, and you know that you are producing inferior product that has bugs of some sort .... then why in hell aren't these bugs squashed before you dump product

on hard working folk who sped their dear dollars. 

 

These "bugs" are why many of us are turning to Non-USA product ... or Non-USA Manufactures who are producing their good right here in the States but with old world  scruples and integrity.

I'm not saying that "foreign"  product is perfect or better but it just appears to be that these companies ( for the most part ) are putting more effort into product quality.

 

When I spend more for a vehicle today then I did on my first home I expect something that doesn't require an exterminator to make right.

 

Finally, to address your comment " Find a dealer that has good techs that can troubleshoot and fix shit." .... You said it.

The stuff is SHIT and the technicians at local dealers can't keep up with what the manufactures are changing.

That's not whining .... that STATING FACT !

 

Perhaps you'd also like to give Boeing a pass for their  737 MAX, which according  to your own words should have been expected to have a few bugs.

Tell that the the relatives of the 346 people who died in a rushed to market product.

Then speak with the owners of the 387 aircraft that were purchased and paid for but are sitting on the ground.

 

Great.  Since your cars never have problems.  That good.  Maybe Boeing and Cat and GM should get Acura engineers to build their stuff.  My point was that anything that has moving parts and electronics is susceptible to breakdowns and issues.  And im Not giving anyone a PASS on anything.  I’m just not living in a fantasy land where I expect everything to be perfect.   Thanks 

[KARNUT]

Then why are you here defending the brand like you have done so many times. 

I don’t think you have seen me defending new GMs. I’ve own many GMs. Have a 92 Chevy truck that I would drive anywhere. Everything still works even the light under the hood. I have fond memories of the chevelles, novas, Camaros, impalas, 442s, gtos, etc I’ve owned in the past. The 92 isn’t going anywhere.


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[Colossus]

11 minutes ago, Radchad said:

Great.  Since your cars never have problems.  That good.  Maybe Boeing and Cat and GM should get Acura engineers to build their stuff.  My point was that anything that has moving parts and electronics is susceptible to breakdowns and issues. 

The stuff from Crapota and Honda definitely have an advantage when it comes to long term reliability and number of issues.  They've been doing it since the late 80s.  Both companies invested heavily in R&D/engineering and using premium materials and testing, and it paid off for them.  Some companies like Hyundai automotive (Which Kia is a spinoff of) realized back in the early 2000s that they were building pure shit.  They were the worst of the worst, except in front of perhaps Daewoo and a few others.  They knew they needed to do something to improve and win over people.  They did.  They hired on many of the best in the industry from Crapota and Honda and other companies and after many years of slow yet steady improvement plus adding some heavy incentives to win people over, (100,000 mile power train warranty for example) they changed their reputation and went from worst to one of the top 5 best.   meanwhile, companies like GM and Ford and especially Chrysler have been having to downsize and eliminate brands and models because they don't want to go the extra mile and learn how to take care of customers and learn how to build top quality products using top quality materials that are well thought out and engineered to last 300,000 miles. 

[Cpl_Punishment]

18 minutes ago, Yoda2 said:

Cpl_Punishment ......

In response to your question about what to buy instead ... that's a difficult one not knowing your specifics.

 

In my case, I was Up-Grading from a 2001 GMC Yukon XL SLT.

She had 168,000 miles with a lot of maintenance as well as repairs done over the years.

She was an old girl but served a good purpose.

Beyond "normal maintenance" the following was required.

Over the years, my brake lines rusted out and were replaced with Stainless Lines.

The Transmission cooler rusted out.

The rear brake spray shields rusted out

The front wheel bearings were replaced twice

Water pump for bearing and seal failure

Side mirrors for control motor failure

Fuel pump failure ( at 68,000 miles )

 ..................... and the list goes on but I' not complaining

 

I do/did most of my own work and was a licensed NYS Inspector working for the NYC Board of Education as an auto shop instructor.

I don''t think I'll be able to do as much as I did before because of the new trucks requirements for special tools and computer.

 

After only owning my 2019 New Style T1  for 2,300 miles ... I'm having second thoughts about being able to keep her as

long as I did my last GMC.

 

So, let's ask .... are you buying a work truck a sporty looking truck or an off road vehicle?

Will you be towing on a regular basis?  What kind of load?

Will you be leasing or buying?

How many miles per year will you expect to put on the truck?

 

Most of all, what do you expect to from your new vehicle and what is your budget?

I'm looking to buy myself a new 1500. I'd optimistically like to keep it for ~15 years, which should be around 100k miles, given how much (little) I typically drive. Reliability/ durability/ longevity tend to be my highest priority, though capability and fuel economy are important, too.

 

It will be a daily driver as I don't have space for three vehicles. We want to get an ultra light travel trailer - thinking somewhere in the ~24 foot range - so probably towing that a few times a year (including at least once over the Rockies each year) and hauling camping gear, propane, fuel for my dad's boat, etc. The occasional run to Home Hardware. In terms of off roading, I don't anticipate taking it anywhere I don't currently take my car.

 

Thanks for your help/ input. This is a tough decision. I just missed the window to buy myself a new K2 with the features I wanted (e.g. NHT) and now I'm not sure if a T1 will be the best choice for me or not.