Banks

bass mechanic · June 12, 2020

Hello Gang, Ive been lurking in and around the forums searching out tidbits of valuable information. So knowing that this is going to be quite long. So this is what I have a 2019 GMC 3500HD, so been looking @ Cold air intake, Derringer with IDASH and an exhaust system. So armed with that information did my best research on the various cold air intake systems first. The problem is Banks bases their system on a 2004 Dodge with a 5.9 Cummins so no way to see what a NEW current truck stock system does. Now some of their competitors use partial metal open air filter housing. So after looking at all of the systems a few are visually close to one another and at least a $100 plus dollar spread. Now for exhaust systems once again Banks 4 inch system states a reduction of 57% in backpressure and 80% cooler then stock and 5 inch states 15% reduction in temps over stock and a 85% reduction in backpressure. Sounds GREAT however these numbers are based on a stock exhaust size of 2.85 inch exhaust tip and temp is taken 2 feet behind exhaust tip. The stock exhaust is 4 inch so what kind of snake oil is this?? So on to the Derringer with IDASH I've read all the stats and it would appear that the numbers don't tell the whole truth like 6 power levels really STOCK is one of them so only 5 additional power levels, no information of the levels between stock and 6, no dyno tests to showcase what they can do. While their competitor shows the dyno results of each level and has a built in Pedal Commander that Banks is currently lacking. HP and torque claims are very close as is price. Would really like to go with Banks but with all that's good with their testing I just need something more current to make a informed decision on their products. Like any data can be made to show a difference in manufactures depending on just how you want to make a comparison apples to apples is never one of them. I've read all the reviews online and the ones saying it feels more powerful or faster without any kind of dyno results are purely speculative. Just my opinion, looking for someone to prove me wrong or even provide hard facts to back up their claims.

I’ve been driving with the derringer for a while now. While I can say I am not as impressed with it as I had hoped to be I strongly support this product over all others for a simple reason that gale has mentioned time and time again that I think your missing. The face is NO OTHER tuner reads the data out of the stock computer in real time the way banks does. If you go to their YouTube channel you’ll see how they have tested the competition against theirs on the dyno and I think definitely proves the others are the real snake oil. Of all the others there might be 1 or 2 that make close to the claimed power but the problem is they don’t monitor EGT or trans slip. As a result the ECM will pull back power when EGT gets too high. This will cause the truck to make less power than stock! So if there are any real gains they only occur for about a minute or so until the EGT hits the max threshold. They basically pour fuel blindly with no feedback as to the EGT or if the trans is slipping ect. Banks makes the power safely and will de-tune as needed to keep it safe. Also won’t load the DPF with soot.
Why risk doing damage to your truck?
All banks numbers are backed on the dyno. Look on YouTube for the reviews I have yet to see any that contradict banks claims but just the opposite from competitors.
Gayle is a data and numbers junkie! Watch his videos. The man is obsessed! He has the data and based on the fact he is so up front about the research they have done, (look at the time they put into a diff cover!) I 100% trust their research. Everything they do is based on numbers. Other tuners are just trying to make a buck and have no proof to back it up.

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spudman · June 12, 2020

I agree that Gale Banks is totally nuts about DATA. Not a bad thing either. But with all the R & D that Banks does on it's products you would think that they would have so much DATA on their hands that they could easily show dyno results of each of their products on their own and combined results. I have watched youtube video's of some of the products installed @Banks and was just hoping that they broke down each component on the dyno not just stock or level 6 with Ram air and 5 inch monster exhaust. Seems to be no happy medium stock or level 6 only. You know they had to have done lots of testing before hand. Obviously I'm still curious about it all but without some hard numbers can't see pulling the trigger just yet. The monster exhaust is one of them how about a dyno comparison between the 4 and 5 inch. Would like to see it stand alone and with the Ram air and finally with the derringer. Guess I'm just an information junkie.

bass mechanic · June 14, 2020

I agree that Gale Banks is totally nuts about DATA. Not a bad thing either. But with all the R & D that Banks does on it's products you would think that they would have so much DATA on their hands that they could easily show dyno results of each of their products on their own and combined results. I have watched youtube video's of some of the products installed@Banks and was just hoping that they broke down each component on the dyno not just stock or level 6 with Ram air and 5 inch monster exhaust. Seems to be no happy medium stock or level 6 only. You know they had to have done lots of testing before hand. Obviously I'm still curious about it all but without some hard numbers can't see pulling the trigger just yet. The monster exhaust is one of them how about a dyno comparison between the 4 and 5 inch. Would like to see it stand alone and with the Ram air and finally with the derringer. Guess I'm just an information junkie.

They do have dyno graphs on each product they sell.
While I agree that an exhaust won’t make much difference on a gas truck, I also know that the primary limiting factor on the Duramax is exhaust heat. As I explained earlier when the EGT reaches I think 1400 or 1500F the ECU will detune. The reason EGT is so critical is in a diesel the fuel is actually injected as it burns. The problem this causes a f the engine needs more fuel there is only so much that can be injected before the pistons reach the bottom of the stroke. The flame is literally chasing the piston down the bore.
The closer it gets to the bottom of the stroke the more heat ends up in the exhaust as the exhaust valve opens. Gale preaches on the fact he doesn’t like to inject beyond I think 26 degrees? (I forget) for this very reason.
Now take the 2020 duramax I don’t know what exactly changed from 2019 but if you look the derringer made a lot more power on the 2020 than the 2019. It has everything to do with the 20 having significantly lower EGT.
So if the exhaust flows better and more importantly stays cooler I have no doubt the derringer can put more fuel and boost into the engine with an advantage of lower EGTs
I’m also confident the intakes make more power because anything that offers less restrictions on the intake or more importantly more dense cold air for an air hungry turbo will make more power.
Banks also says boost is meaningless and he’s right, you can have a lot of boosted hot air with a low air density making a fraction of the HP less boost and more air density makes.
I would be curious to see what my truck does at sea level, here in colorado we get robbed about 25% with our less dense air

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Miller1 · June 26, 2020

I haven’t read everything but what kind of performance does the Derringer give to the 2020 HD Denali?

Doubleu · June 27, 2020

So I have been driving with the derringer for about week now.... no issues what so ever until tonight... on my way home from work the idash displayed d-err code and also displayed fail to communicate. When I got to where I was going I checked all cables and connections... seemed to go back to normal no err code any more... when I put it in drive it said fail to communicate again and turned on engine light traction control light and said check parking brake... all while sending truck into reduced power.... I did diagnostic check and had codes for fuel rail pressure issues. I cleared codes and truck went back to normal along with derringer reading normal now.... while driving it threw all the same codes on the truck again and reduce engine output... I pulled over cleared codes and restarted truck checked connections again and has been running fine for last 10 miles....any thoughts what you think happened?

sdelam · June 29, 2020

On 6/27/2020 at 1:43 AM, Doubleu said:

So I have been driving with the derringer for about week now.... no issues what so ever until tonight... on my way home from work the idash displayed d-err code and also displayed fail to communicate. When I got to where I was going I checked all cables and connections... seemed to go back to normal no err code any more... when I put it in drive it said fail to communicate again and turned on engine light traction control light and said check parking brake... all while sending truck into reduced power.... I did diagnostic check and had codes for fuel rail pressure issues. I cleared codes and truck went back to normal along with derringer reading normal now.... while driving it threw all the same codes on the truck again and reduce engine output... I pulled over cleared codes and restarted truck checked connections again and has been running fine for last 10 miles....any thoughts what you think happened?

Call Banks, they will get you straight.